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2000 Competative - Ulthwé


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#1
Soulshade

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So, I play Iyanden, but Ive enough of a collection to have a good sized for for at least 2 Craftworlds.
 
Here is my competitive list!

 

Edit. Done some changes. Original list is behind the tags
 

Spoiler

 

 

Ulthwé Battalion Detachment +3 Cp
 
HQ

[77] Autarch - Forceshield, Starglaive. - Warlord: Fate Reader

[150] Eldrad Ulthuan - RoF: Guide, Doom, Exectioner
 
Troops
[95] 10x Guardians - Shuriken Cannon
[65] 5x Dire Avengers - Exarch: Twin Avenger Catapults
[65] 5x Dire Avengers - Exarch: Twin Avenger Catapults
 
Flyer
[175] Crimson Hunter Exarch - 2x Brightlances

 

Transports
[134] Waveserpent - Shuriken Cannon,  Twin Shuriken Cannon
[134] Waveserpent - Shuriken Cannon,  Twin Shuriken Cannon
 

Ulthwé Vanguard Detachment  +1 CP

HQ
[35] Warlock - RoB: Empower/Enervate
 
Elite
[70] Bonesinger - Ghosthelm of Alishazier
[133] 10x Howling Banshees - Exarch: Executioner
[119] 5x Shadow Spectres - Exarch: Prism Rifle

[119] 5x Shadow Spectres - Exarch: Prism Rifle
 

Ulthwé Spearhead Detachment +1 CP
 
HQ

[35] Warlock - RoB: Enhance/Drain

Heavy
[135] 5x Dark Reapers - Exarch: Reaper Launcher
[135] 5x Dark Reapers - Exarch: Reaper Launcher
[160] Fire Prism
[160] Fire Prism

 

Battleforged +3 CP

 

Total 1996 8CP

 

So tactics.

 

Eldrad the Autarch and the Darkreapers load into 1 serpent.  Banshees and Warlocks into the other. This is mostly for protection. Banshees disembark within 3.  Move and advance. Get buffed by both warlocks putting them into a comfortable charge range for something tasty.

The Prisms and Reapers hang back with the Autarch and Eldrad. Rerolling to hit / wound ect with guide and powers. The Prisms using the linked fire strat.

The troops are just backfield objective campers and a bubble wrap for the Reapers and tanks.

 

Thoughts guys?


Edited by Soulshade, 29 October 2017 - 03:41 PM.

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#2
Spiritual Liege

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What's a starglaive? Haven't gotten my codex yet.

#3
Soulshade

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What's a starglaive? Haven't gotten my codex yet.

 

 

New Autarch 'build'. Its str x2 -3ap D3 damage. All I can expect is theres a plastic version of Yriel on the way, and this is the normal Autarch build of the same kit.


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#4
Spiritual Liege

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Is it a relic or does it have a to-hit penalty?

#5
Soulshade

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 No relic. Just standard wargear. And yes its also -1 to hit. Forgot that part. blush.png But your re rolling 1s to hit too because of The Path of Command Aura he has. 


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#6
mmimzie

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That wave serpent is a death trap for your models. Many armies can take out a single wave serpent in a single turn. Putting all your eggs in that basic is gonna be bad because odds are your going to lose 2 more mode (most likely reapers) when they get kicked out, and if your facing a vicious enough list the reapers themselves will then be devoured by the fire power that will be coming your way.

This is an expert from the tournament list i've been drafting:

9xshining spears w/ exarch in the webway. 
Farseer skyrunner

Warlock Skyrunner (biel-tan relic to allow reroll)
481pts

Farseer cast doom/Guide
Warlock rerolling cast quicken. 

In the shooting phase the shining spears and the farseer and warlock can all open fire to open up the serpent. Sine the spears all got quickened they can surround your vehicles, and prevent your models from getting out of the transport in the first place killing them all, and then the shining spears are going to go charge and try to  do the same to your other wave serpent if it's close enough or go pick on some other units. That's 631pts of your army that could die turn 1 to only 481pts of my force, and they still have more killing to do. If you bubble wrap your wave serpent you either can't bubble wrap it to protect it either. The spears fly so if you bubble wrap to leave room for your models to get out, i'll charge of your model's heads and the serpent in melee (using my shooting to kill some other stuff). If you don't leave room for your guys to get out, i don't have to go close to your serpent and can instead sit next to my charge target and blow up the serpent in shooting. 

Now i'm not saying my list is better than your or whatever. What i'm trying to show you is how much you can set yourself up for failure with a plan to put all your awesome stuff in one vehicle. 

So i'd give each reaper squad it's own serpent that way if someone does commit so much to your serpents you don't really lose sooooo much. The characters don't need to go in the serpents at all instead just bubble wrap them with troops, and you should be okay. In fact you could bubble wrap them with troops and put them behind the serpents. Now most armies will have to kill all the troops and your serpents to get to your characters.

You could also keep the warlock outside of his serpent and just throw the banshees in there. The warlock doesn't have to get that close and with his normal move and run he can keep up enough to cast whatever buffs or debuffs you expect to cast turn 2. 

If you can get the points i'd take the hemlock over the hunter. The hemlock does as much or more anti tank damage (for the points), but will help with with anti horde army issues you may or may not have.
 

Edit: also that big guardian squad is asking to be webway striked in and giving the ulthwe stratagem to really throw down. 


Edited by mmimzie, 31 October 2017 - 08:03 PM.

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#7
Soulshade

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Thanks for the input.

 

I play Kharadron Overlords in AoS so fully understand the perils of a surrounded transport being destroyed as its the exact same rule. In those situations where i think its possible for the enemy forces to get to me, I simply deploy differently.

 

I fully agree in regards to the Hemlock and the idea of a large guardian blob webwaying though. I'll have a tinker with the list and see what I can do.


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#8
mmimzie

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Thanks for the input.

 

I play Kharadron Overlords in AoS so fully understand the perils of a surrounded transport being destroyed as its the exact same rule. In those situations where i think its possible for the enemy forces to get to me, I simply deploy differently.

 

I fully agree in regards to the Hemlock and the idea of a large guardian blob webwaying though. I'll have a tinker with the list and see what I can do.

Cool. yeah it's not jsut getting surround though, it can be blown up making your reapers vulnerable.  Sneaking in a few units of rangers or an extra wave serpent to split some of those models up more would help in most situations. Anywho feel free to like this, quote this, or pm me if you'd like me to poke about at the new one. I like a lot of this list. Ulthwe is really cool. 



#9
Karhedron

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Would you consider mixing Craftworlds? That Spearhead detachment is just begging to be Alaitoc.

Also, I am not convinced about the Bonesinger. 70 Points is quite expensive considering your most valuable vehicles are your Prisms. At around 12 points per wound, your Bonesinger will need to Repair at least 6 wounds (3 times on average) to stand a chance of making his points back. Once they start taking fire, will the Prisms live 3 turns?

The Bonesinger is not mandatory to the list, you have enough Elites already for that Vanguard Detachment. I would be tempted to drop him and use the points to upgrade the Warlocks to Spirit Seers. For an extra 10 points you get the full-fat version of Smite and double the wounds. This is useful because a regular Warlock has a 2/3 chance of going POP if he perils. The remaining points could upgrade the Crimson Hunter to a Wraithfighter for auto-hitting D-scythes and even more Psychic goodness.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#10
Xenith

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I would drop either a unit of spectres or reapers/prism and 1 HQ to try and get 3 cheap fast attack units (single vypers?) and then consolidate everything into a single brigade detachment, boosting your command points from 8 to 12. 


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#11
Karhedron

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I would drop either a unit of spectres or reapers/prism and 1 HQ to try and get 3 cheap fast attack units (single vypers?) and then consolidate everything into a single brigade detachment, boosting your command points from 8 to 12.

This is a pretty good idea. A dual Shuricannon Vyper costs 70 points and is actually worth taking for the first time in several editions. A 5-man Hawk squad costs 64 points IIRC and is also pretty decent putting out 20 shots at 24" range on top of their grenade shenanigans.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#12
Soulshade

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Would you consider mixing Craftworlds? That Spearhead detachment is just begging to be Alaitoc.

 

Im competitive but not that competitive. In a large game I would, for a normal 2k game I would stick to the 1 Craftworld.

 

Also, I am not convinced about the Bonesinger. 70 Points is quite expensive considering your most valuable vehicles are your Prisms.

 

I see what your saying.  He was supposed to be a smite monkey with the artifact. But I can ditch him, upgrade the warlocks and do the same thing with the Spiritseers.

 

 

I would drop either a unit of spectres or reapers/prism and 1 HQ to try and get 3 cheap fast attack units (single vypers?) and then consolidate everything into a single brigade detachment, boosting your command points from 8 to 12. 

 

 

Dont have the points for the other 3 troop units though. I would have to drop both Serpents which changes the list to an MSU footdar - esq  force.

 

Ill have play with the list and post the results later


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#13
Soulshade

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Ok. 2 New lists. One is an update on the original. The other is using a Brigade.

 

First list

 

Ulthwé Battalion Detachment +3 Cp
 
HQ

[77] Autarch - Forceshield, Starglaive. - Warlord: Fate Reader

[150] Eldrad Ulthuan - RoF: Guide, Doom, Exectioner
 
Troops
[95] 10x Guardians - Shuriken Cannon
[65] 5x Dire Avengers - Exarch: Twin Avenger Catapults
[65] 5x Dire Avengers - Exarch: Twin Avenger Catapults
 
Flyer
[200] Hemlock

 

Transports
[134] Waveserpent - Shuriken Cannon,  Twin Shuriken Cannon
[134] Waveserpent - Shuriken Cannon,  Twin Shuriken Cannon
 

Ulthwé Vanguard Detachment  +1 CP

 

HQ
[45] Spiritseer - RoB: Empower/Enervate - Ghosthelm of Alishazier
 
Elite
[133] 10x Howling Banshees - Exarch: Executioner
[119] 5x Shadow Spectres - Exarch: Prism Rifle

[119] 5x Shadow Spectres - Exarch: Prism Rifle
 

Ulthwé Spearhead Detachment +1 CP
 
HQ

[45] Spiritseer - RoB: Enhance/Drain

Heavy
[135] 5x Dark Reapers - Exarch: Reaper Launcher
[135] 5x Dark Reapers - Exarch: Reaper Launcher
[165] Fire Prism - Crystal Targeting Matrix
[165] Fire Prism - Crystal Targeting Matrix

 

Battleforged +3 CP

 

Total 1979 8CP

 

Left 10 points for the whole Hemlock and Spirit stones thing. New idea is avengers start in the serpents to dart for objectives and everyone else just tries to hide and foot slogs. Guardians / Banshees Webway in  depending on the opposing force.

 

 

Second list

 

Ulthwé Brigade Detachment +9 Cp
 
HQ

[150] Eldrad Ulthuan - RoF: Guide, Doom, Exectioner

[45] Spiritseer - RoB: Empower/Enervate - Ghosthelm of Alishazier

[45] Spiritseer - RoB: Enhance/Drain

 

Troops
[60] 5x Dire Avengers - Exarch
[60] 5x Dire Avengers - Exarch

[60] 5x Dire Avengers - Exarch

[60] 5x Dire Avengers - Exarch

[60] 5x Rangers

[60] 5x Rangers
 

Elite
[68] 5x Howling Banshees - Exarch: Executioner
[68] 5x Howling Banshees - Exarch: Executioner
[119] 5x Shadow Spectres - Exarch: Prism Rifle

 

Fast

[70] Vyper - 2x Shuriken Cannons

[70] Vyper - 2x Shuriken Cannons

[70] Vyper - 2x Shuriken Cannons

 

Heavy
[135] 5x Dark Reapers - Exarch: Reaper Launcher
[165] Fire Prism - Crystal Targeting Matrix
[165] Fire Prism - Crystal Targeting Matrix
 
Flyer
[200] Hemlock

 

Transports
[134] Waveserpent - Shuriken Cannon,  Twin Shuriken Cannon
[134] Waveserpent - Shuriken Cannon,  Twin Shuriken Cannon
 

Battleforged +3 Cp

Total 1998 - 12 CPs

 

Dont know if I'm keen on this one. I had to drop a lot to make the brigades troops choices fit.

 

But, thoughts now guys? First or second list?
 

 

Edit: Typo


Edited by Soulshade, 01 November 2017 - 08:03 PM.

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#14
Spiritual Liege

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Why spiritseers instead of Warlocks? You don't have any Wraith units and you just pay points for spirit link without using it.

#15
Karhedron

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Why spiritseers instead of Warlocks? You don't have any Wraith units and you just pay points for spirit link without using it.


For an extra 10 points, Spiritseers get twice the number of wounds as Warlocks. This is great as a Warlock has a 66% chance of going POP to a single Perils. Also they get the full-fat version of Smite rather than the neutered Destructor.

If I see a Warlock in a list, I always ask the opposite question, why not shave a few points off something to upgrade to a Spiritseer? I don't see much use for single Warlocks unless you are desperately short of points. Taking a small Conclave can be useful as you get access to the Seer Council and boosted range Stratagems.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#16
Spiritual Liege

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They have double the wounds? Wow.
I always thiught they we're just Warlocks witha wraith buff 😂.

And I completely forgot about Destructor, I really don't know why did GW do that.

Edited by Spiritual Liege, 10 November 2017 - 07:51 AM.





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