HH Rulebook - rules updates discussion

[K3nn3rs]

Has the rules for graviton weapons changed? Have they lost the haywire rule?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think they did .

[K3nn3rs]

Nooooo....

 

That would be really annoying! I know they’ve messed around with grav imploders but completely missed the change to graviton weapons.

 

I’ve got 4 on my breachers,a WiP dual fisted grav contemptor and a yet-to-be-built grav rapier.

 

Losing haywire would seriously debuff them ☹️

[Riptor]

Nooooo....

 

That would be really annoying! I know they’ve messed around with grav imploders but completely missed the change to graviton weapons.

 

I’ve got 4 on my breachers,a WiP dual fisted grav contemptor and a yet-to-be-built grav rapier.

 

Losing haywire would seriously debuff them ☹️

They didn't, no worries. It's only Graviton Imploders that are ruined.

[K3nn3rs]

Few!

 

[Gorgoff]

Few!

 

[Charlo]

Few!

 

 

But hasn’t the new FAQ changed grav imploders back?

 

Nope.

 

It's changed them to be like the Leviathan Grav-Flux Bombard.

 

Targets hit need to roll equal to or under their strength or take a wound on a D6. Against vehicles each shot rolls a flat 3D6 for armour pen.

[Brofist]

Why hello there, archmagos reductor with tank hunter and armorbane

[Gorgoff]

Is it true that you now can score out of a transport again?

[Brofist]

No, because dedicated transports don't score.

[Gorgoff]

No, because dedicated transports don't score.

Buildings don't score, too, but if you put a Troops choice in one, it does.

[Slips]

 

No, because dedicated transports don't score.

Buildings don't score, too, but if you put a Troops choice in one, it does.

Rules reference please, because I dont recall ever encountering that.

[Brofist]

I remember reading a line about that in the new red book this weekend. It's an exception for models inside buildings. Can look it up when I get home.

 

That still doesn't allow dedicated transports to score. Since objective secured is not a rule in HH you have to get outside of your transport to claim an objective.

[Gorgoff]

I remember reading a line about that in the new red book this weekend. It's an exception for models inside buildings. Can look it up when I get home.

 

That still doesn't allow dedicated transports to score. Since objective secured is not a rule in HH you have to get outside of your transport to claim an objective.

Sure, but why is it meantioned that you can't claim objectives out of flying transports?

That paragraph makes no sense at all, if you can't claim objectives out of transports in general.

In the other hand it makes no sense at all to meantion that you can claim objectives out of buildings if you can claim objectives out of transports in general.

Those two paragraphs contradict each other. The main question is:

Does the new rulebook explain if models in transports are treated as if they are on the table or are they not on the table?

[Slips]

 

I remember reading a line about that in the new red book this weekend. It's an exception for models inside buildings. Can look it up when I get home.

 

That still doesn't allow dedicated transports to score. Since objective secured is not a rule in HH you have to get outside of your transport to claim an objective.

Sure, but why is it meantioned that you can't claim objectives out of flying transports?

That paragraph makes no sense at all, if you can't claim objectives out of transports in general.

In the other hand it makes no sense at all to meantion that you can claim objectives out of buildings if you can claim objectives out of transports in general.

Those two paragraphs contradict each other. The main question is:

Does the new rulebook explain if models in transports are treated as if they are on the table or are they not on the table?

 

The thing is, even in 6/7th edition, we were never able to capture objectives while inside another transport. When it changed over to "everything scores" then transports could score because everything else could.

 

And since this is 30k, only troops and implacable advance units could score. Dedicated Transports having their own category meant that they were never eligible in the first place.

 

If buffs and auras are cancelled out when transported inside a vehicle, so to is capturing an objective.

[M@verik115]

So I got my hands on the new rulebook yesterday and I am quite impressed with the overall quality, both stylistically, print wise and how the rules are worded. 
Cannot wait to try it out. 
The reference sheet in particular is handy :D 
 

[NemoVonUtopia]

There is a typo on my reference sheets in the to wound chart, the last line is the same as the to hit chart. It threw me for a loop when it said that strength 10 wounded toughness 4 on a 3+.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

I remember reading a line about that in the new red book this weekend. It's an exception for models inside buildings. Can look it up when I get home.

 

That still doesn't allow dedicated transports to score. Since objective secured is not a rule in HH you have to get outside of your transport to claim an objective.

Sure, but why is it meantioned that you can't claim objectives out of flying transports?

That paragraph makes no sense at all, if you can't claim objectives out of transports in general.

In the other hand it makes no sense at all to meantion that you can claim objectives out of buildings if you can claim objectives out of transports in general.

Those two paragraphs contradict each other. The main question is:

Does the new rulebook explain if models in transports are treated as if they are on the table or are they not on the table?

The thing is, even in 6/7th edition, we were never able to capture objectives while inside another transport. When it changed over to "everything scores" then transports could score because everything else could.

 

And since this is 30k, only troops and implacable advance units could score. Dedicated Transports having their own category meant that they were never eligible in the first place.

 

If buffs and auras are cancelled out when transported inside a vehicle, so to is capturing an objective.

The thing is:

There is no rule at all, that cancelled that out. Nowhere in the rules it is said that buff auras out of transports are not a thing.

 

But I asked FW, and as a matter of fact, I've got an answer...

 

Hi Tim,

 

Thanks for the email. As I am sure you can guess we have an incredible amount of rules questions, clarification requests and FAQ updates from our customers. As such we are not permitted to individually answer these questions or offer any official response to rules related questions for consistency reasons and also we have a dedicated rules team that update or rules in erratas and FAQ's as part of their role within Games Workshop.

 

Our rules team have requested we gather as many questions as we can, categorize them and send them over for review..

 

Rest assured, we will tag and categorize your email and forward it on and soon we should see an FAQ for the new data sheets or publications in the future.

 

Thanks again

 

 

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Hi guys,

 

I've got a question regarding your new awesome rulebook for games in the Age of Darkness.

 

 

Is it possible to claim objectives with a Troops choice or any other scoring unit when said unit is embarked on a transport?

 

It would be nice if you could answer that question because it causes lots of trouble around here. Even nicer if you could explain your answer.

 

Regards

 

Tim

 

 

Ehrm.... ;)

[K3nn3rs]

A decent FAQ and an ERRATA released in

a short time frame (months), to sort out some of the balance issues / costing issues would be amazing!

[Slips]

You literally got a non-answer that means absolutely nothing with regards to the question of: Are scoring units able to capture objectives from within a transport.

 

Its literally a copy-paste boiler plate response theyre probably sending everyone who emails them Rules Questions with no indication of it being a question theyre likely to answer.

 

And since they didnt actually answer your question beyond “wait for an FAQ, maybe?” My point still stands.

[Gorgoff]

You literally got a non-answer that means absolutely nothing with regards to the question of: Are scoring units able to capture objectives from within a transport.

 

Its literally a copy-paste boiler plate response theyre probably sending everyone who emails them Rules Questions with no indication of it being a question theyre likely to answer.

 

And since they didnt actually answer your question beyond “wait for an FAQ, maybe?” My point still stands.

So why is it meantioned that troops cannot score out of fliers and no word whatsoever about troops in regular vehicles?

That's what's bothering me.

[Withershadow]

Actually, he brings up an interesting point. The 7th edition sentence that stated models embarked don't count as being in play does not exist in this book.  So auras from vehicles may be go, and this also means that  for a lot of Primarchs, their buffs to their army continue to function even if they are embarked (which makes sense). 

 

Regarding units in vehicles scoring, this seems pretty explicit in the rules.  The scoring rules specifically say that units in buildings do score.  The fact that flying transports are specifically called out as not being able to have their embarked units score, further lends credence to the fact that troops inside regular vehicles score.

[M@verik115]

That is far too cheesy for me and its clearly an oversight. 
The way I see it, if the unit is not on the board (ie in a transport) and cannot be the target of anything, then its not in 'play' at that moment and thus cannot score. 
There is nothing that says they do score, but there is a rule that says that units in a building score 3" around it. 
Now transports are scoring, but the troop choice inside them only has objective secured once they disembark. 

I am pretty sure it is how its meant to be played as that is how we played in 7th and shall continue to do so unless specified otherwise. 

[Withershadow]

That is far too cheesy for me and its clearly an oversight. 

The way I see it, if the unit is not on the board (ie in a transport) and cannot be the target of anything, then its not in 'play' at that moment and thus cannot score. 

There is nothing that says they do score, but there is a rule that says that units in a building score 3" around it. 

Now transports are scoring, but the troop choice inside them only has objective secured once they disembark. 

 

I am pretty sure it is how its meant to be played as that is how we played in 7th and shall continue to do so unless specified otherwise. 

7th edition doesn't really matter, because it was always different from the Age of Darkness.  You could argue for the FAQ clarifications, but is that even available on any of GW's sites  anymore?

 

The only vehicles that can score in the Age of Darkness are Predators in the Rite that makes them Troops.  Dedicated transports are also troops, but are specifically excluded from scoring.

 

 

Few!

 

 

But hasn’t the new FAQ changed grav imploders back?

 

Nope.

 

It's changed them to be like the Leviathan Grav-Flux Bombard.

 

Targets hit need to roll equal to or under their strength or take a wound on a D6. Against vehicles each shot rolls a flat 3D6 for armour pen.

 

That's not really like the Leviathan Grav-Flux Bombard then, that thing forces tests on 2D6 for infantry models.  That would make graviton imploders still excellent. Has the FAQ even been published?

[Gorgoff]

Nope.