Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Why aren't the Primarch's weapons used in the 41st Mill?

Primarch Weapons

  • Please log in to reply
97 replies to this topic

#1
Urriak Urruk

Urriak Urruk

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 583 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Wolf Brothers

So it hit me that the Primarchs all have some pretty famous wargear, but that many of these weapons actually go unused in the world of 40k.

 

Sure Abaddon got the talon, and Khârn got Gorechild. But other than that (and I suppose the Lion sword) most of these weapons are I guess lost with their Primarch.

 

EXCEPT for the weapons of Ferrus Manus and Sanguinius! Apparently the Iron Hands somehow got Forgebreaker back, as did the Blood Angels for the Blade Encarmine and Spear of Tolesto.

 

So my question is... if you were a Space Marine, would you want to break these weapons out and put them to use? Or do you think they are better suited locked up for reverence?

 

If I was an Iron Hand I would definitely take that hammer and smash some skulls.

 

Side-note, how does Azrael wear the Lion Helm? Does he have a big head?



#2
Demus Ragnok

Demus Ragnok

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,145 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:US
  • Chapter Name: Fire Keepers Xth Legion BotL
I believe the Iron Hands retrieving the hammer is a fan fiction legend (I may have missed something legit though) I mean Pert had it during the heresy.

Besides Forgebreaker was so heavy a space marine couldn’t use it. I think that’s mentioned in a novel.

The Lion Helm probably isn’t “the” Lion Helm just a space marine size helm with the same wings and gizmos attached.

Edited by Demus Ragnok, 30 October 2017 - 06:07 PM.

Of Fire.

Fire gives light removing dark and shadow.

Fire gives purity driving out corruption.

Fire gives strength consuming weakness.

#3
Sete

Sete

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6,988 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Black Templars/Grey Talons
Abbadons lieutenants had shards of Sanguinius Sword. I don't think the Blood Angels got all the sword.

Edited by Sete, 30 October 2017 - 06:20 PM.


#4
MyD4rkPassenger

MyD4rkPassenger

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 162 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia
  • Chapter Name: CSM/Imperium

If I were a space marine I probably wouldn't take to the field with one.  They are relics of a lost age at this point, a vestige of a time when the chapter was something greater than it is now.  To lose one would not only be utterly devastating to the chapter, but the greatest shame upon the wielder.  Secondly I think they are more symbols of authority.  Take the Talon and Gorechild as you have stated, they are wielded by the greatest champions of their legions, and those two have the greatest group of followers of their legion behind them.  A more extreme example could be Guilliman taking up his father's sword, it sets a precedent to lead.  The wielder must accept the responsibility of stepping into their Primarch's (or in Robute's case the Emperor's) shoes.  I feel at this point only the chapter masters would dare to wield their gene father's weapons, and even then second founding and on probably would relegate the honor to their first founding brothers.  I, as a space marine, would simply venerate them as examples of how my brother's and I should be.  (All of this is from a loyalist view, examples show the traitors don't really care about honoring their fathers all that much.)

 

There are cases of remnants of weapons, or war-gear that wasn't always favored, such as the high marshal's blade and pistols and so on. These are relics of the primarchs, however I wouldn't put them up with things like Sanguinius' spear, Manus' hammer, Dorn's chainsword etc which are much more iconic.


Edited by MyD4rkPassenger, 30 October 2017 - 06:20 PM.

  • Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra, Chaplain Dosjetka, Trevak Dal and 1 other like this

gallery_63428_7083_6894.pngNostraman_zpsf4be09e4.png gallery_48988_10069_47070.png

 

 

 

 

 


#5
Urriak Urruk

Urriak Urruk

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 583 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Wolf Brothers

But what about weapons like the Spear of Russ, which was gifted to Bjorn by Leman himself? You would think the chapter would think "He gave it to us to use, not just let sit around."

 

Same logic for Sanguinius' sword, which he gave to Belarius.



#6
Claws and Effect

Claws and Effect

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,957 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Ravenspire (AKA Iowa)
  • Chapter Name: Raven Guard and DIY WIP

Not all the Primarch's weapons are just sitting around. Shrike uses the Raven's Talons, which were allegedly built by Corax himself to replace the lightning talons destroyed during the Dropsite Massacre. 

 

The biggest problem is scale. ​Look at the Lion Sword that Cypher is hauling around and how fething huge it is. That is a one-handed sword scaled to being wielded by a 12 foot tall Primarch. There is no way an 8 foot tall Marine can possibly wield it effectively. Pretty much all of the Primarch weapons are similar in scale. 

 

Another example still in use: The Gauntlet of the Forge. It looks power fist sized, but it was probably just a glove for Vulkan. 

 

I heard a theory a while back that the Teeth of Terra is actually Rogal Dorn's chainsword Storm's Teeth. No proof, but it seems plausible. 

 

And the "priceless relic of the chapter" view is a valid one. This is a relic of your frigging Primarch. Do you want to take the chance of being the guy who gets killed while fighting an Ork Warboss and having your Primarch's irreplaceable weapon become his new Big Choppa? 

 

On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared. 



#7
Leif Bearclaw

Leif Bearclaw

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,187 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Chapter Name: Space Wolves

On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared. 

Lost and abandoned in the rubble on Armatura, just like Gorechild was. Khârn only found the one axe after Angron's rampage and ordered it rebuilt (going against WE tradition), so I assume Gorefather was either more wrecked, or buried more comprehensively.

 

Storm's Teeth is probably gone too. IIRC the book Legion of the Damned covers a Feast of Blades, and it turns out the prize for the winning Chapter is 'The Dornsblade', said to be the weapon Dorn made for his use after breaking the sword he carried onto the Vengeful Spirit due to grief/failure. But then again, that may just be rumour and legend, because the blade in question isn't exactly 'Primarch sized'...



#8
Ulfgrim Alvsbane

Ulfgrim Alvsbane

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,863 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The sarcophagus of a venerable dreadnought
  • Chapter Name: Ultramarines

Russ may have given his spear to Bjorn, but even Bjorn himself is revered by the Wolves to the point where they would not likely make use of his relic weapons, either.

But I do seem to remember when Ragnar was a Wolfblade, he (reluctantly) used (and lost?) the Spear of Russ... didn't he?


"We come home to pray, to reflect, to remember, before we journey back to the stars.
Hatred keeps us crusading, Regret brings us home. Shame always calls us back." - ADB

#9
Corswain

Corswain

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,466 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brisbane, Australia
  • Chapter Name: Ist, IVth and VIIIth Legions
I’ve always figured that the hesitancy to use Primarch weapons was down to the sheer impracticality of it. As Claws of Effect said, they’re too big.

Primarch firearms on the other hand, I could see being used without too much difficulty.
  • LordVelype likes this

#10
LordVelype

LordVelype

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 614 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germania sector
  • Chapter Name: Twilight Wardens

What Corswain said. Plus you probably  wouldn´t want them to get in the (demon prince-sized) hands of the enemy...

I wonder if Trazyn  got some in his collection, according to lexicanum he already tried to steal "the spear of Vulkan", though I am not sure if that actually is "Vulkan´s spear"...


"I am starting to find you rather hot, mortal... wub.gif "

 

 Shewhothirsts, to LordVelype

 


#11
blackoption

blackoption

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,105 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: The Black Eagles

 


On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared. 

Lost and abandoned in the rubble on Armatura, just like Gorechild was. Khârn only found the one axe after Angron's rampage and ordered it rebuilt (going against WE tradition), so I assume Gorefather was either more wrecked, or buried more comprehensively.

 

 

 

 

Gorefather was a relic that a World Eater's Legion army could field in the last edition.  So it is safe to assume it is still blooding the galaxy.



#12
DuskRaider

DuskRaider

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,567 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany, NY
  • Chapter Name: Death Guard, 3rd Grand Company
I thought Angron kept Gorefather but tossed Gorechild. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read Betrayer. Also, I do believe Sanguinius' sword was completely shattered by Horus and, as was said prior, given to the founding members of the Black Legion.

I would say the biggest reason they're no longer used is they're most likely the last link to their primogenitor... perhaps with the exception of Dorn's Fist of Fail and Sanguinius' corpse.

Check out my Photobucket Here

 DuskRaider's 40K Death Guard: A Return to the Past

 

 DuskRaider's Word Bearers Shadow War Kill Team & INQ28 Chaos Coven

 

 DuskRaider's 30K Word Bearers Force

 

 DuskRaider's 3rd Grand Company Death Guard Legion Force

 

To view my older threads, please go to the link HERE and download the add-on to view Photobucket linked images.


#13
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6,304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Herts
  • Chapter Name: Inkspillers
Angron chucked Gorefather same time as Gorechild. He used two chainswords on Nuceria.

Also regarding size of weapons, isn't Calgar only able to wield the Gauntlets due to his augmetics?

Edited by bluntblade, 31 October 2017 - 04:53 AM.

Mortal scrivener for the Brotherhood of the Lost project:
gallery_92945_11930_15891.jpeg

Tales of the Brotherhood


#14
karden00

karden00

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 586 posts

Angron chucked Gorefather same time as Gorechild. He used two chainswords on Nuceria.

Also regarding size of weapons, isn't Calgar only able to wield the Gauntlets due to his augmetics?

Glad you mentioned The Gauntlets. I don't recall if the sources say that Roboute specifically used them, but it has certainly been fact for a long time that Roboute won them from a fell Chaos champion and that they have been a symbol of the Ultramarines and only The Lord Macragge could wear them, yada yada yada......

With all respect to the OP, because I think it could be real fun to track down what happened to all the juicy bits of wargear, (even if they suffer inglorious fates like just being lost/rust to death/whateverhaveyouovertenthousandyears) sometimes these questions make me kinda cringe. One thing I loved about Know No Fear was Thiel's awe at Guilliman's armory. Sure, Guilliman had a ton of stuff, but I never once, despite everything I know and love (and want to believe) about my Primarch, that the XIIIth primarch was unique in this. What Primarch wouldnt have a ton of stuff? It is a wonderful and necessary thing that we have named wargear, but I cannot conceive of Primarch's not having a silly amount of stuff to play with. 


  • Urriak Urruk likes this

'Lorgar has his own battles to fight, Erebus,' replied Horus sharply. 'Should he fail at Calth, all this will be for nothing if Guilliman's Legion is allowed to intervene.
You can always ally the Dark Angels to your current ultramarine force.
Never.
My Ultramarines aren't taking the field with traitors.
That's what Dark Vengeance is. A box of traitors.

 

"Now I have a plasma cannon. LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS."


#15
KhorneHunter57x

KhorneHunter57x

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,890 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Crusading
  • Chapter Name: Ultramarines

Storm's Teeth is probably gone too. IIRC the book Legion of the Damned covers a Feast of Blades, and it turns out the prize for the winning Chapter is 'The Dornsblade', said to be the weapon Dorn made for his use after breaking the sword he carried onto the Vengeful Spirit due to grief/failure. But then again, that may just be rumour and legend, because the blade in question isn't exactly 'Primarch sized'...

And the blade Dorn broke was re-forged into the Sword of the High Marshals, currently in the possession of the Chapter Master of the Black Templars.


"Zeal and fury are rewarded with victory." -Dawn of War II

I prefer to think that bolt weapons do, in fact, use cased ammunition - mostly for the reasons you state. It looks cool. They jingle when they hit hard ground. It's like the Emperor's wind chimes.


#16
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6,304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Herts
  • Chapter Name: Inkspillers
I remember it being mentioned that Argel Tal owned an arsenal that went way beyond his Custodian weapons and claws, as was typical for a prominent praetor. Primarchs are likely the same.

Mortal scrivener for the Brotherhood of the Lost project:
gallery_92945_11930_15891.jpeg

Tales of the Brotherhood


#17
battle captain corpus

battle captain corpus

    ++ CENTURIO COHORS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 4,004 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southampton
  • Chapter Name: Valhallan 95th company

Plus after 10,000 years things get misplaced and left in now abandoned chambers etc. I lose my house keys all the time!

 

BCC


"As inexorable as the winter cold, as ruthless as the bitter frost, as certain as death - the Valhallans fight only for victory and the Emperor. All else is a prelude." - Colonel Kasteen, 597th Company
Valhallan Ice Warriors Regiment

#18
Closet Skeleton

Closet Skeleton

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Black Templars

Side-note, how does Azrael wear the Lion Helm? Does he have a big head?

 

huh.png he doesn't duh, that's why he has a watcher carry it for him. If Azrael got an updated model the helmet would be scaled up like Cypher's sword was (and need two or more watchers). Primarchs used to be much more sensibly sized.



#19
Charlo

Charlo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 16,402 posts
  • Gender:Male

It's been 10,000 years.

 

Most of them will be lost, replaced by fakes, shadows of their former selves or just plain irreplaceable.

 

I'd imagine most Chapters would rather hang the weapon in their Fortress Monastery and have the marines kneel and be blessed by it rather than take it into battle and risk losing it and bringing some forever shame to themselves.


  • Ulfgrim Alvsbane likes this

gallery_62972_10568_11157.jpg 30k WIP Thread: Talons : 40k WIP Thread "You would not cut down a tree with a sword, neither will you pierce a heart with an axe."

 


#20
Ishagu

Ishagu

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 10,264 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Britannia, Holy Terra
  • Chapter Name: Ultramarines
Gauntlets of Ultramar were never used by Guilliman.
They belonged to a Chaos champion he killed during the scouring. Appropriated them for his own Chapter.

The wargear belonging to the Primarchs was likely distributed to the first founding chapters when the Legions were split.

-~Ishagu~-


#21
Arkangilos

Arkangilos

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6,416 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oklahoma City, Ok
  • Chapter Name: Sanguinary Crusaders

But what about weapons like the Spear of Russ, which was gifted to Bjorn by Leman himself? You would think the chapter would think "He gave it to us to use, not just let sit around."

Same logic for Sanguinius' sword, which he gave to Belarius.


Belarius has mostly been replaced by Raldoron. Also, it was necessarily his personal sword, it was a sword he gifted to him.

Anyways literally both examples you provided are examples of why you *shouldn't* do it. Literally both got lost.

Previously known as Telanicus

 

Sanguinary Crusader Page (Lore, Models, Etc)
IT Warriors of Cain Unholy Chosen

The Four Star Pact (Chaos Alliance Lore, Model, Etc)


#22
Urriak Urruk

Urriak Urruk

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 583 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Wolf Brothers

 

But what about weapons like the Spear of Russ, which was gifted to Bjorn by Leman himself? You would think the chapter would think "He gave it to us to use, not just let sit around."

Same logic for Sanguinius' sword, which he gave to Belarius.


Belarius has mostly been replaced by Raldoron. Also, it was necessarily his personal sword, it was a sword he gifted to him.

Anyways literally both examples you provided are examples of why you *shouldn't* do it. Literally both got lost.

 

 

Haha I guess that's true isn't it?

 

I suppose I'm just miffed that these objects are part of the lore and just sit unused for 10,000 years. Seems like a waste to me.

 

 

 

Side-note, how does Azrael wear the Lion Helm? Does he have a big head?

 

huh.png he doesn't duh, that's why he has a watcher carry it for him. If Azrael got an updated model the helmet would be scaled up like Cypher's sword was (and need two or more watchers). Primarchs used to be much more sensibly sized.

 

 

Why the heck do you have a helmet if its only purpose is to have your midget sidekick carry it?

 

Also this;

 

Azrael_VS_Kharn.jpg

 

Another side-note, do you think a Primaris in Gravis armor could pick up a weapon like Forgefather? Or still "NOPE too heavy!"



#23
Ulfgrim Alvsbane

Ulfgrim Alvsbane

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,863 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The sarcophagus of a venerable dreadnought
  • Chapter Name: Ultramarines

Presumably, because the helmet does more than protect one's head.  Even if it provides no actual protection to Azrael, it is a powerful symbol to his fellow Dark Angels - as valuable as an ancient battle standard, and every Chapter bears those into battle all the time.

It's a relic of their Primarch and surely stirs them to greater courage (and in the case of Dark Angels, obstinance :) )


"We come home to pray, to reflect, to remember, before we journey back to the stars.
Hatred keeps us crusading, Regret brings us home. Shame always calls us back." - ADB

#24
Arkangilos

Arkangilos

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6,416 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oklahoma City, Ok
  • Chapter Name: Sanguinary Crusaders
The helmet would be like a catholic relic. Being in the mere presence of it does miracles.

Previously known as Telanicus

 

Sanguinary Crusader Page (Lore, Models, Etc)
IT Warriors of Cain Unholy Chosen

The Four Star Pact (Chaos Alliance Lore, Model, Etc)


#25
Closet Skeleton

Closet Skeleton

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Black Templars

Why the heck do you have a helmet if its only purpose is to have your midget sidekick carry it?

 

 

Why have a midget sidekick to carry your Force field generator if you were just going to put it on your head.

 

Presumably, because the helmet does more than protect one's head.  Even if it provides no actual protection to Azrael, it is a powerful symbol to his fellow Dark Angels - as valuable as an ancient battle standard, and every Chapter bears those into battle all the time.

 

Or maybe its some kind of Force field generator.

 

The helmet would be like a catholic relic. Being in the mere presence of it does miracles.

 

Miracle? More like- Nevermind I give up...


  • Ulfgrim Alvsbane and Urriak Urruk like this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Primarch, Weapons

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users