Urriak Urruk Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 So it hit me that the Primarchs all have some pretty famous wargear, but that many of these weapons actually go unused in the world of 40k. Sure Abaddon got the talon, and Khârn got Gorechild. But other than that (and I suppose the Lion sword) most of these weapons are I guess lost with their Primarch. EXCEPT for the weapons of Ferrus Manus and Sanguinius! Apparently the Iron Hands somehow got Forgebreaker back, as did the Blood Angels for the Blade Encarmine and Spear of Tolesto. So my question is... if you were a Space Marine, would you want to break these weapons out and put them to use? Or do you think they are better suited locked up for reverence? If I was an Iron Hand I would definitely take that hammer and smash some skulls. Side-note, how does Azrael wear the Lion Helm? Does he have a big head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) I believe the Iron Hands retrieving the hammer is a fan fiction legend (I may have missed something legit though) I mean Pert had it during the heresy. Besides Forgebreaker was so heavy a space marine couldn’t use it. I think that’s mentioned in a novel. The Lion Helm probably isn’t “the” Lion Helm just a space marine size helm with the same wings and gizmos attached. Edited October 30, 2017 by Demus Ragnok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Abbadons lieutenants had shards of Sanguinius Sword. I don't think the Blood Angels got all the sword. Edited October 30, 2017 by Sete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyD4rkPassenger Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) If I were a space marine I probably wouldn't take to the field with one. They are relics of a lost age at this point, a vestige of a time when the chapter was something greater than it is now. To lose one would not only be utterly devastating to the chapter, but the greatest shame upon the wielder. Secondly I think they are more symbols of authority. Take the Talon and Gorechild as you have stated, they are wielded by the greatest champions of their legions, and those two have the greatest group of followers of their legion behind them. A more extreme example could be Guilliman taking up his father's sword, it sets a precedent to lead. The wielder must accept the responsibility of stepping into their Primarch's (or in Robute's case the Emperor's) shoes. I feel at this point only the chapter masters would dare to wield their gene father's weapons, and even then second founding and on probably would relegate the honor to their first founding brothers. I, as a space marine, would simply venerate them as examples of how my brother's and I should be. (All of this is from a loyalist view, examples show the traitors don't really care about honoring their fathers all that much.) There are cases of remnants of weapons, or war-gear that wasn't always favored, such as the high marshal's blade and pistols and so on. These are relics of the primarchs, however I wouldn't put them up with things like Sanguinius' spear, Manus' hammer, Dorn's chainsword etc which are much more iconic. Edited October 30, 2017 by MyD4rkPassenger Trevak Dal, Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra, Stormxlr and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urriak Urruk Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 But what about weapons like the Spear of Russ, which was gifted to Bjorn by Leman himself? You would think the chapter would think "He gave it to us to use, not just let sit around." Same logic for Sanguinius' sword, which he gave to Belarius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Not all the Primarch's weapons are just sitting around. Shrike uses the Raven's Talons, which were allegedly built by Corax himself to replace the lightning talons destroyed during the Dropsite Massacre. The biggest problem is scale. Look at the Lion Sword that Cypher is hauling around and how fething huge it is. That is a one-handed sword scaled to being wielded by a 12 foot tall Primarch. There is no way an 8 foot tall Marine can possibly wield it effectively. Pretty much all of the Primarch weapons are similar in scale. Another example still in use: The Gauntlet of the Forge. It looks power fist sized, but it was probably just a glove for Vulkan. I heard a theory a while back that the Teeth of Terra is actually Rogal Dorn's chainsword Storm's Teeth. No proof, but it seems plausible. And the "priceless relic of the chapter" view is a valid one. This is a relic of your frigging Primarch. Do you want to take the chance of being the guy who gets killed while fighting an Ork Warboss and having your Primarch's irreplaceable weapon become his new Big Choppa? On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared. Lost and abandoned in the rubble on Armatura, just like Gorechild was. Khârn only found the one axe after Angron's rampage and ordered it rebuilt (going against WE tradition), so I assume Gorefather was either more wrecked, or buried more comprehensively. Storm's Teeth is probably gone too. IIRC the book Legion of the Damned covers a Feast of Blades, and it turns out the prize for the winning Chapter is 'The Dornsblade', said to be the weapon Dorn made for his use after breaking the sword he carried onto the Vengeful Spirit due to grief/failure. But then again, that may just be rumour and legend, because the blade in question isn't exactly 'Primarch sized'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Russ may have given his spear to Bjorn, but even Bjorn himself is revered by the Wolves to the point where they would not likely make use of his relic weapons, either. But I do seem to remember when Ragnar was a Wolfblade, he (reluctantly) used (and lost?) the Spear of Russ... didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I’ve always figured that the hesitancy to use Primarch weapons was down to the sheer impracticality of it. As Claws of Effect said, they’re too big. Primarch firearms on the other hand, I could see being used without too much difficulty. DaBoiKyknos 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoiKyknos Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 What Corswain said. Plus you probably wouldn´t want them to get in the (demon prince-sized) hands of the enemy... I wonder if Trazyn got some in his collection, according to lexicanum he already tried to steal "the spear of Vulkan", though I am not sure if that actually is "Vulkan´s spear"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared. Lost and abandoned in the rubble on Armatura, just like Gorechild was. Khârn only found the one axe after Angron's rampage and ordered it rebuilt (going against WE tradition), so I assume Gorefather was either more wrecked, or buried more comprehensively. Gorefather was a relic that a World Eater's Legion army could field in the last edition. So it is safe to assume it is still blooding the galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I thought Angron kept Gorefather but tossed Gorechild. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read Betrayer. Also, I do believe Sanguinius' sword was completely shattered by Horus and, as was said prior, given to the founding members of the Black Legion. I would say the biggest reason they're no longer used is they're most likely the last link to their primogenitor... perhaps with the exception of Dorn's Fist of Fail and Sanguinius' corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Angron chucked Gorefather same time as Gorechild. He used two chainswords on Nuceria. Also regarding size of weapons, isn't Calgar only able to wield the Gauntlets due to his augmetics? Edited October 31, 2017 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Angron chucked Gorefather same time as Gorechild. He used two chainswords on Nuceria. Also regarding size of weapons, isn't Calgar only able to wield the Gauntlets due to his augmetics? Glad you mentioned The Gauntlets. I don't recall if the sources say that Roboute specifically used them, but it has certainly been fact for a long time that Roboute won them from a fell Chaos champion and that they have been a symbol of the Ultramarines and only The Lord Macragge could wear them, yada yada yada...... With all respect to the OP, because I think it could be real fun to track down what happened to all the juicy bits of wargear, (even if they suffer inglorious fates like just being lost/rust to death/whateverhaveyouovertenthousandyears) sometimes these questions make me kinda cringe. One thing I loved about Know No Fear was Thiel's awe at Guilliman's armory. Sure, Guilliman had a ton of stuff, but I never once, despite everything I know and love (and want to believe) about my Primarch, that the XIIIth primarch was unique in this. What Primarch wouldnt have a ton of stuff? It is a wonderful and necessary thing that we have named wargear, but I cannot conceive of Primarch's not having a silly amount of stuff to play with. Urriak Urruk 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Storm's Teeth is probably gone too. IIRC the book Legion of the Damned covers a Feast of Blades, and it turns out the prize for the winning Chapter is 'The Dornsblade', said to be the weapon Dorn made for his use after breaking the sword he carried onto the Vengeful Spirit due to grief/failure. But then again, that may just be rumour and legend, because the blade in question isn't exactly 'Primarch sized'... And the blade Dorn broke was re-forged into the Sword of the High Marshals, currently in the possession of the Chapter Master of the Black Templars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I remember it being mentioned that Argel Tal owned an arsenal that went way beyond his Custodian weapons and claws, as was typical for a prominent praetor. Primarchs are likely the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle captain corpus Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Plus after 10,000 years things get misplaced and left in now abandoned chambers etc. I lose my house keys all the time! BCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Side-note, how does Azrael wear the Lion Helm? Does he have a big head? he doesn't duh, that's why he has a watcher carry it for him. If Azrael got an updated model the helmet would be scaled up like Cypher's sword was (and need two or more watchers). Primarchs used to be much more sensibly sized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 It's been 10,000 years. Most of them will be lost, replaced by fakes, shadows of their former selves or just plain irreplaceable. I'd imagine most Chapters would rather hang the weapon in their Fortress Monastery and have the marines kneel and be blessed by it rather than take it into battle and risk losing it and bringing some forever shame to themselves. Stoic Raptor 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Gauntlets of Ultramar were never used by Guilliman. They belonged to a Chaos champion he killed during the scouring. Appropriated them for his own Chapter. The wargear belonging to the Primarchs was likely distributed to the first founding chapters when the Legions were split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 But what about weapons like the Spear of Russ, which was gifted to Bjorn by Leman himself? You would think the chapter would think "He gave it to us to use, not just let sit around." Same logic for Sanguinius' sword, which he gave to Belarius. Belarius has mostly been replaced by Raldoron. Also, it was necessarily his personal sword, it was a sword he gifted to him. Anyways literally both examples you provided are examples of why you *shouldn't* do it. Literally both got lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urriak Urruk Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 But what about weapons like the Spear of Russ, which was gifted to Bjorn by Leman himself? You would think the chapter would think "He gave it to us to use, not just let sit around." Same logic for Sanguinius' sword, which he gave to Belarius. Belarius has mostly been replaced by Raldoron. Also, it was necessarily his personal sword, it was a sword he gifted to him. Anyways literally both examples you provided are examples of why you *shouldn't* do it. Literally both got lost. Haha I guess that's true isn't it? I suppose I'm just miffed that these objects are part of the lore and just sit unused for 10,000 years. Seems like a waste to me. Side-note, how does Azrael wear the Lion Helm? Does he have a big head? he doesn't duh, that's why he has a watcher carry it for him. If Azrael got an updated model the helmet would be scaled up like Cypher's sword was (and need two or more watchers). Primarchs used to be much more sensibly sized. Why the heck do you have a helmet if its only purpose is to have your midget sidekick carry it? Also this; Another side-note, do you think a Primaris in Gravis armor could pick up a weapon like Forgefather? Or still "NOPE too heavy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Presumably, because the helmet does more than protect one's head. Even if it provides no actual protection to Azrael, it is a powerful symbol to his fellow Dark Angels - as valuable as an ancient battle standard, and every Chapter bears those into battle all the time. It's a relic of their Primarch and surely stirs them to greater courage (and in the case of Dark Angels, obstinance :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 The helmet would be like a catholic relic. Being in the mere presence of it does miracles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Why the heck do you have a helmet if its only purpose is to have your midget sidekick carry it? Why have a midget sidekick to carry your Force field generator if you were just going to put it on your head. Presumably, because the helmet does more than protect one's head. Even if it provides no actual protection to Azrael, it is a powerful symbol to his fellow Dark Angels - as valuable as an ancient battle standard, and every Chapter bears those into battle all the time. Or maybe its some kind of Force field generator. The helmet would be like a catholic relic. Being in the mere presence of it does miracles. Miracle? More like- Nevermind I give up... Stoic Raptor and Urriak Urruk 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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