New codex coming this year...

[Brother Crimson]

I think we will get a lack luster and very situation army wide rule and the worst part is that they could have given us some faction tactics for our successors that would have allowed for a bunch of different play styles and themes, almost like a bunch of different vampire bloodlines.

 

The nice thing about the BA lt is he could easily stand in for a PA captain as well thanks to the iron halo.

 

I'd rather have strigoi wulfen marines than Assault Centurions in this edition. New units generally means better rules. I don't think it's entirely impossible either. GW wants to make you buy new models, not make ones you have worthwhile.

 

Still, I can hope against reason we get something to help us get our guys into combat. Advance and charge would be excellent. Maybe with minus 1 to charge range? They let other armies advance and shoot, why not give assault armies some sort of advantage.

 

Biggest problems with 8th are not new to 40k and are all core issues.

 

Assault is risk-reward while shooting is more predictable and stable.

 

Nearly all our special rules are tied to characters and bubbles and 8n the case of psychic powers require dice rolls of they fizzle while other armies get crazy game breaking rules for their units or entire army that just happen. People are up in arms about Ynari getting nerfed and I'm still just incensed they got something that amazing to begin with. Same for reanimation protocols. GW is not capable of balancing the two different approaches to design with one another. Same thing helped kill WHFB.

 

With the ending of Davastation of Baal it is possible that we get two different chapter tactics, one for codex blood angel and one for Fleash Tearers.

[SM1981]

I don't really get the Primaris will take over / we'll loose our soul argument.

 

Guiliman hasn't interfered with any chapters recruitment methods. All that has happened is that depleted chapters have been given some immediate relief via Primaris marines. But as long as the BA continue to recruit from Baal / The Baal system, keep using the blood of Sanguinius in the induction process, and traditional gene seed stock from.the chapter, then future generations of typical marines will continue and be just as susceptible to both the red first and black rage as the current generation.

 

It's about reinforcement. Not replacement.

[Panzer]

I don't really get the Primaris will take over / we'll loose our soul argument.

 

Guiliman hasn't interfered with any chapters recruitment methods. All that has happened is that depleted chapters have been given some immediate relief via Primaris marines. But as long as the BA continue to recruit from Baal / The Baal system, keep using the blood of Sanguinius in the induction process, and traditional gene seed stock from.the chapter, then future generations of typical marines will continue and be just as susceptible to both the red first and black rage as the current generation.

 

It's about reinforcement. Not replacement.

All chapter got the stuff to create Primaris and seeing as how they are simply superior physically and with no drawbacks there's really no reason in-universe wise why future Marines shouldn't be Primaris Marines. With some exceptions of course who are probably too stubborn to change their ways but those will disappear eventually too.

 

Out-universe, it's simple. Primaris are the new fancy thing for loyalist Marine players and they will get like 90% of the Marine support from GW.

 

I don't see it as negative tho. Primaris Marines look great and I don't mind their fluff unlike many others. Now we just need Primaris units that fit my army building plans (fast melee ones especially).

[Blindhamster]

in Devestation of Baal they specifically say that all new marines will be primaris.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I don't hate it

[Blindhamster]

That is very fitting, considering *glances at name*

[Dont-Be-Haten]

The primis are growing on me. My goal may be to just do a 100% Primaris BA army

[CrimsonExarch]

The primis are growing on me. My goal may be to just do a 100% Primaris BA army

Ive been tempted to try and use them more....

Problem is I am trying to branch out into competitive 40K and the primaris marines are pretty bad in that environment....

[Charlo]

In 7th Primaris would've been ace.

 

In 8th though they don't really offer much in terms of fodder.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Intercessors are a lot more competitive than say tactical Marines.

[Panzer]

Intercessors are a lot more competitive than say tactical Marines.

"That one thing nobody wants to take is better than the other thing nobody wants to take". It really doesn't matter who of those two are better since if possible they get replaced by a unit from the Elite, Fast Attack or Heavy Support section anyway. :D

 

That being said, I disagree. The strongest Marine lists I've seen so far use a bunch of Tacticals with a Lascannon and potentially a Plasmagun and not a single Intercessor unit. Spreading out Lascannons over different units really helps against alpha strikes and debuffs etc. so they are more popular than Devastator Squads lately and Intercessors just can't do that.

[Frater Cornelius]

That is because they are cheaper and compensate a little for the Assault Cannon Razors. People don't take Tacs because they are better, they still suck. They take them because they take Razorbacks.

[Blindhamster]

True.

 

Tacticals one and only redeeming feature is a heavy or special weapon.

 

It's a big redeeming feature, don't get me wrong. But the rest of the unit is typically useless. It won't hold an objective if an enemy wants to shift them and doesn't have enough shooting to do anything else meaningful.

 

That being said, intercessors are much better objective campers as theyre more resilient unless the enemy wants to out anti tank weapons into thek and put out somewhat better shooting (all three bolt rifle types have better damage potential than a standard bolter, the grenade launcher gives them a little more long range versatility. And better melee (double the attacks and at 11 vs 6 base).

 

However, using the two unit types together increasingly seems like the best plan, especially with the price drops as the intercessors can act as something or a shielding unit for characters or other unit types.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Xenith]

 

Ive been tempted to try and use them more....

Problem is I am trying to branch out into competitive 40K and the primaris marines are pretty bad in that environment....

 

 

Down that way, darkness lies. 

 

My best recommendation for this would be to pick an army you like the look of, then play it to death, get 100x the experience of using that army than bandwagon jumpers do with theirs.

 

I had my 5th ed BA demi company army called OP once because I usually won with it even against the cheese of the day (eldar, daemons, grey knights, necrons). The fact is I've had the same basis for the army since 1999 (2tacs, dev, death co, nasty character) and know how well it works.

 

I am a competitive player. Very competitive. I like to win, but my armies have my favourite units in them, not the ones the internet tell me are the best.

[Karhedron]

"That one thing nobody wants to take is better than the other thing nobody wants to take". It really doesn't matter who of those two are better since if possible they get replaced by a unit from the Elite, Fast Attack or Heavy Support section anyway.

I think the Codex will change that. Most players who have received a new Codex want to run at least 3 Troop units for CPs to power the various stratagems that the new codices include. You can run a Battle Forged army based on Spearhead/Vanguard/Outrider Detachments but you may find yourself thirsting for more CPs after the first couple of turns.

 

Of course we also have Scouts but I think Intercessors may have some mileage, particular as they are apparently dropping to 18ppm in our Codex and CA. Suffice it to say I have 10 from Dark Imperium and I will give them a chance to prove their worth.

[Panzer]

 

"That one thing nobody wants to take is better than the other thing nobody wants to take". It really doesn't matter who of those two are better since if possible they get replaced by a unit from the Elite, Fast Attack or Heavy Support section anyway.

I think the Codex will change that. Most players who have received a new Codex want to run at least 3 Troop units for CPs to power the various stratagems that the new codices include. You can run a Battle Forged army based on Spearhead/Vanguard/Outrider Detachments but you may find yourself thirsting for more CPs after the first couple of turns.

 

Of course we also have Scouts but I think Intercessors may have some mileage, particular as they are apparently dropping to 18ppm in our Codex and CA. Suffice it to say I have 10 from Dark Imperium and I will give them a chance to prove their worth.

 

Yeah but as I said the most competetive Marine lists I've seen are running multiple tactical squads with Lascannons and potentially Plasmaguns. That's not really something Intercessors can do.

[Bartali]

I don't really get the Primaris will take over / we'll loose our soul argument.

 

Guiliman hasn't interfered with any chapters recruitment methods. All that has happened is that depleted chapters have been given some immediate relief via Primaris marines. But as long as the BA continue to recruit from Baal / The Baal system, keep using the blood of Sanguinius in the induction process, and traditional gene seed stock from.the chapter, then future generations of typical marines will continue and be just as susceptible to both the red first and black rage as the current generation.

 

It's about reinforcement. Not replacement.

 

People need to look outside the fluff for Primaris. GW is re-booting the Marine model line, but doing it slowly after lessons learnt with WFB/AoS.

Expect in the next few years the trad marine kits to be phased out and replaced by a Primaris version

[Panzer]

 

I don't really get the Primaris will take over / we'll loose our soul argument.

 

Guiliman hasn't interfered with any chapters recruitment methods. All that has happened is that depleted chapters have been given some immediate relief via Primaris marines. But as long as the BA continue to recruit from Baal / The Baal system, keep using the blood of Sanguinius in the induction process, and traditional gene seed stock from.the chapter, then future generations of typical marines will continue and be just as susceptible to both the red first and black rage as the current generation.

 

It's about reinforcement. Not replacement.

 

People need to look outside the fluff for Primaris. GW is re-booting the Marine model line, but doing it slowly after lessons learnt with WFB/AoS.

Expect in the next few years the trad marine kits to be phased out and replaced by a Primaris version

 

Some call it re-booting, I call it updating. Sounds much nicer and doesn't imply that old lore will get retconned. :P

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Not meaning to shift too much focus away from the dex. But in regards to primaris, what about the bloke that played full Primi-Raven Guard? in Nottingham's recent event? wasn't he on top tables day2?

[Xenith]

 

Yeah but as I said the most competetive Marine lists I've seen are running multiple tactical squads with Lascannons and potentially Plasmaguns. That's not really something Intercessors can do.

 

Intercessors, no, but hellblasters can take more plasma per unit than tac, or indeed dev squads. 

 

The heavy plasma incinerator is S8 AP-4 D1 and jumps to S9D2 on the overcharge. It's nasty. 10 normal plasma dudes are putting out 20 S8/-4/D2 shots within 15". That's a lot of pain, especially if you can easily get within 15" like raven guard. 

[Panzer]

Yeah Hellblaster are a whole different topic. Not sure how a whole unit of Plasma could ever be bad unless Plasma suddenly become bad or the unit grossly overcosted. :D

[Brother Crimson]

Not meaning to shift too much focus away from the dex. But in regards to primaris, what about the bloke that played full Primi-Raven Guard? in Nottingham's recent event? wasn't he on top tables day2?

Strike from the shadows +aggressors got him there I heard. That’s 72 shots per unit.

 

It was not just that but the alpha strike potential of raven guards is good.

[Indefragable]

Raven Guard have one of the more universally beneficial CT’s. It’s brilliant in its simplicity. It’s a hill for an opponent to climb: no tricks, totally, possible. But you still have to climb it.

[Panzer]

Raven Guard have one of the more universally beneficial CT’s. It’s brilliant in its simplicity. It’s a hill for an opponent to climb: no tricks, totally, possible. But you still have to climb it.

Not just the CT. The Infiltrate Stratagem is the key here. 

[TheHarrower]

Intercessors are a lot more competitive than say tactical Marines.

 

I don't agree. 5 man Tactical Squad with a Lascannon is far more useful. They are easier to transport around the board since you don't need a vehicle that costs almost 1/4 of army to transport them around and the Lascannon does the long range work. Individually model for model Intercessors are certainly better, but the Lascannon and easy transportability puts Tactical Marines over the top.