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Baneblade vs Banesword/Shadowswor

Imperial GuardBaneblade Shadowsword Banesword Superheavy Lord of War Tanks

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#26
KhorneHunter57x

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Grinding Advance means baneblades are inferior to their points in Leman Russes. The shadowsword comes out better because of the 3d3 s16 ap-5 2d6 damage gun. If you want efficiency, only the Shadowsword is worth it, but that's why we suggest magnetizing it as per the tutorial posted, so you can enjoy all of them at your leisure.

On the Baneblade (and variants - which I will refer to collectively as the 'Baneblade' from here on) vs. equal number of Leman Russes note, the Baneblade hulls have a notable advantage when melee is considered - the Overwatch from multiple Leman Russ tanks can be reduced by charging one at a time; the Baneblade actually has a chance to kill something in the Fight phase; and most importantly, a Baneblade's shooting can't be shut down by being within 1" of an enemy, unlike the Leman Russ.

Additionally, the Baneblade gets far more mileage out of Stratagems. Crush Them is actually useful on our Super-Heavies, and Vengeance for Cadia and Defensive Gunners have more of an impact when applied to a Baneblade rather than a Leman Russ.

All in all, I think both options have their strengths, and while the Baneblade variants might lose in firepower when compared to equal points of Leman Russes, they do have their advantages, too.

(and I agree with the Shadowsword being the best out of the Baneblade hulls - a pity, as the standard Baneblade looks so cool)


"Zeal and fury are rewarded with victory." -Dawn of War II

I prefer to think that bolt weapons do, in fact, use cased ammunition - mostly for the reasons you state. It looks cool. They jingle when they hit hard ground. It's like the Emperor's wind chimes.


#27
Tirak

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If your gun platforms are bring charged, then you've got bigger problems. Leman Russes are tougher by points than a baneblade, owing to being separate targets and a contained 12 wounds, making it easier to overkill, furthermore degradation of one Russ does not affect the shooting of the others. Vengeance for Cadia is too situational to consider as an overriding concern when building a TAC list. Furthermore multiple russes take greater advantage of doctrines, specifically Valhallan and Catachan ones, providing them more rerolls or overall toughness depending on the regiment of your choosing. I can not see a situation where any baneblade aside from the Shadowsword would not be a worse investment compared to Russes of equal points.

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#28
Tyr13

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If your gun platforms are bring charged, then you've got bigger problems. Leman Russes are tougher by points than a baneblade, owing to being separate targets and a contained 12 wounds, making it easier to overkill, furthermore degradation of one Russ does not affect the shooting of the others. Vengeance for Cadia is too situational to consider as an overriding concern when building a TAC list. Furthermore multiple russes take greater advantage of doctrines, specifically Valhallan and Catachan ones, providing them more rerolls or overall toughness depending on the regiment of your choosing. I can not see a situation where any baneblade aside from the Shadowsword would not be a worse investment compared to Russes of equal points.

 

Except Baneblade variants *want* to be in combat. Theyre actually quite killy in that situation, unlike LR which hit like a damp towel. CC means that your opponent cant shoot you.

 

Theres also the different roles to consider: A LR is always going to try and keep the enemy at arms length - they might have some flamers, but theyre primarily defensive. You dont want to rush the enemy with them. A baneblade, particularly the transport variants, *do* want to close though, and unload some bullgryn goodness (or possibly crusaders, if youd prefer them). Alternatively, they can keep your squishy heavy weapons safe from harm while still letting them fire.

 

Overall, there are certainly some variants that have merit - particularly the banehammer and stormlord (doomhammer *maybe* if you want a worse shadowsword with tranport option). The other (non-transport) variants do seem somewhat lacklustre though - if youre just getting them for damage, the same points in LR probably make more sense.


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#29
ImperialSquishiness

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What we're forgetting about the LR's ability to double tap is, apart from the Punisher, all the main guns on a BB variant rival or better the shot output of the standard LR variants when double tapping, not to mention they all have a potential to do more damage as things like the BB cannon and Hellhammer cannon do a flat 3 damage as opposed to their smaller version's d3.  Most of the random damage is removed from the BB variants guns and if there is random damage, they tend to have some shenanigans that make it easier to do more damage.

 

The only thing I can see at the moment where the baneblades would be of less use than an equivalent amount of points in russes is against Necron stuff with Quantum shielding, where they actually preffer higher damage output as it makes it easier to shrug off a hit.  Imagine the salty tears as you plough a volcano cannon into say an annihilation barge, doing a 7 or more damage hit and it automatically ignores it... (unless the rule has changed since I last had it used against me!)

 

Double tap stats on the LR:

Battle Cannon - 2D6 @ S8 AP-2 D d3

Demolisher Cannon - 2D3/6 (depending on unit size) @ S10 AP-3  D d6

Nova Cannon - 2D6 @ S6 AP-2 D d3 Ignores Cover

Plasma Executioner - 2D6 @ S7 AP-3 D2 or S8 AP-3 D2 if overcharging

Exterminator Autocannon - 8 shots @ S7 AP-1 D2

Punisher Cannon - 40 shots @ S5 AP- D1

Vanquisher Cannon - 2 shots @ S8 AP-3 D d6 (Roll 2, pick the highest)

 

Compared to the Baneblade variants (not including the demolisher cannons on the BB/HH)

Baneblade cannon - 3D6 @ S9 AP-3 D3

Hellhammer cannon - 3D6 @ S10 AP-4 D3 Ignores Cover

Shadowsword - 3D3 @ S16 AP-5 D2d6 (Rerolling against titanic)

Banesword - 2D6 @ S14 AP-4 Dd6 (minimum 3 damage)

Tremor Cannon - 3D6 @ S8 AP-2 D3 Units hit halve their movement and cannot advance

Stormsword Siege Cannon - 2D6 @ S10 AP-4 D d6 reroll 1s. Ignores Cover

Magma Cannon - 2D6 @ S10 AP-5 D d6 (2d6 pick the highest when in Half range)

Vulcan Mega Bolter - 20 Shots @ S6 AP-2 D2

On top of that, most users will add at least 1 set of sponsons, I think I'd rather go for the HB option over the Flamers, unless taking a transport variant and using the tallarn ambush rules (Ambushing stormlord full of bullgryns anyone?).  That'd give you 18 Heavy bolter shots + 2 lascannons on each variant. That goes up to 30 and 4 if you take 2 sets of sponsons. Plus the BB and HH also have the autocannon and the HH also has a plinky lasgun too. 



#30
Colonel Cross

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I was opposed to super heavies and only recently tried out a game with a baneblade. I normally run 5 Russes but I reduced my list to fit in a baneblade. I usually play against my friend who likes competitive lists and plays death guard/chaos soup. If it weren't for my baneblade, there's no way I could have taken out Primarchs flying at me. So now I'm assembling a Macharius Vulcan, Shadowsword, and magnetizing my baneblade to cover all variants. Let's see now 2 Primarchs like a Valhallan superheavy list with 3 of those babies in it!

#31
ImperialSquishiness

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Played a 2.5k game against Necrons last night. Ran the Octoblade as a Cadian Baneblade. It probably killed near enough 1000 points. Took out a Monolith, a 6 man blob of destroyers, an overlord and a lot warriors in 3 turns of shooting and 2 of combat. Only took 3 wounds in the whole game. Tabled my opponent by turn 4.
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#32
AstraWlad

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From my experience Hellhammer is the best heavy fire support superheavy we have. Stormlord is shooty-as-hell mobile bunker while Shadowsword is a special tank able to destroy everything up to Imperial Knight in one shooting phase (with good rolls of course).

 

Other variants seem a bit inferior to that "trinity".



#33
ImperialSquishiness

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The only real difference between a BB and Hellhammer is the extended range on the main gun at a slightly reduced strength and AP. I'd rather have a bit of extra range as it means I can deploy a little further back, out of range of some of the scarier stuff. Yes, it might mean losing out on all those HB shots, but most regular tank killing weaponry only goes out to 48" range. Deploy outside of that and force your opponent to come to you. The big gun is still capable of doing horrendous damage each turn to vehicles.

#34
AstraWlad

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The only real difference between a BB and Hellhammer is the extended range on the main gun at a slightly reduced strength and AP. I'd rather have a bit of extra range

S10 means that you wound T5 (Nurgle Marines for example) on 2+ and AP -4 lets you completely strip 3+ enemies (including vehicles) from their armour save, it's quite a big deal. So my cunning plan for Hellhammer usually looks like that:

1. Deploy close to enemy.

2. Move in full throttle.

3. Shoot everything to peices with 2 big guns, 2 lascannons and other stuff.

4. Optionally: charge using "2+ to-hit" stratagem.

5. If you die -- pray to the Emprah for 6 on explosion roll.

6. ???

7. PROFIT!!!



#35
duz_

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I personally like to try and optimise my lists for <36" range

You're more likely to get a close range deployment than a nice long hammer and anvil style

 

That and I've always liked the siege variants guard has :) 



#36
Ishagu

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In all seriousness, the Shadowsword is the best :-D
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-~Ishagu~-


#37
CoffeeGrunt

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Yeah I rarely find the extra range ever comes into play on an average table.
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Imperial GuardBaneblade, Shadowsword, Banesword, Superheavy, Lord of War, Tanks

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