Chapter Approved changes and what they mean for SM

[SydonianDragoon404]

If they are reducing the cost of index units, why is the cost of biker veterans not going down? 

[Frater Cornelius]

We haven't seen the full list yet and we do not even know if this one is legit to begin with. If you must complain, wait at least until we have something that is confirmed to be true.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

These changes look pretty conservative but solid nonetheless.  Intercessors going down is really nice.  They are a really annoying objective camper in cover and lower their price goes a long way to making up for their lack of options. 

 

I think the drop pod change is pointless.  Pods dont shoot or tie up models or do anything after they land.  80 or 100 points is irrelevant.  RIght now you can get a Land Raider Crusader for less than the price of 3 pods and that thing does something after its contents are delivered.  The same logic applies to the Stormraven.  I think the Drop Pod has to have MORE functionality to stay at 80 to 100 points or must be 50 points or less.  Would a pod be worth 100 points if it gave disembarking units +3 to their charge roll like Banshees get for free?  Now that does something that might make the cost justifiable.  I'd like to see 10 Black Templar vanguard vets getting 6 inch rerollables out of a pod.  Or what about +1 to hit rolls for shooty units the turn they disembark?  Now that DOES SOMETHING for paying points for!  It is pretty strong but I dont think anyone could reasonably claim it to be OP in light of what other codicies are getting that only cost CP NOT points.

 

Assuming the leaks to be accurate... it is pretty disappointing to not see anything done about the sorry state of speeders(all flavours).  Moving and shooting heavies would go a long way to seeing them become viable again.  

 

Some other changes I'd like to see in Chapter Approved for Space Marines.  

 

1. Auspex Scan: Fix it, now.  -1... golly gee?  Who is paying 2 cp to have all their guys miss or get killed by plasma?

 

2. Datalink Telemetry:  Get rid of the land speeder requirement.  Then it is GOOD.  Not godly since you only use it once a turn... just good.

 

3. Bob G:  Cost needs to go up more.  The cheaper this guy is the less likely other stuff is to get buffs or reductions.  He is a huge design space hog.

 

4. Hunter/Stalker:  I got nothing here... but something has to change.  I have never even heard another player mention these units let alone put one on the table.  

 

5. Assault Marines: 2 attacks base.  Done.  

 

6. Gravguns: Not sure but the idea of taking one of these in a squad is repellent to me.  Maybe more range or make them assault 2?  

[Tamiel]

If these changes are true, then this will be the second time the drop pod gets a points decrease since the beginning of 8E. Will it be enough?

[Firepower]

Would have liked a point drop for the Land Raider, personally.

 

And no, I think people still won't use pods. Everyone got used to 35 point deep strike that could land right up in the opponent's face, and the other transport and deep strike options available are still generally better.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Firepower

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

If these changes are true, then this will be the second time the drop pod gets a points decrease since the beginning of 8E. Will it be enough?

No.

[Ebon Hand]

Even just making the drop pods come down at the beginning of the movement phase so that units could move out of them would go a long way towards making them worth their cost.

 

For Land Speeders, giving them deepstrike back would help a ton as well.

 

Hunters and stalkers could use a points drop on account of how specialized they are too.

 

Did I mention Eviscerators yet? Eviscerators cost one million points. Eviscerators.

 

Are you guys still going to take assault cannon Razorbacks or is there an argument for the heavy bolter now?

[Rogue]

Hunters and stalkers feel almost redundant since the end of skyfire. Time was, they were brilliant against things like Necrons and Eldar where almost everything was a skimmer and a viable target, so they were rarely wasted even if there were no flyers around.

 

But now, everyone can target flyers. Marines usually hit them on a 4+ anyway, so why would I need an anti-aircraft tank?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

While drop pods are an extra cost unit that gives the "deep strike" rule to units that probably don't want to be deep striking, when terminators and jump pack troops do the same thing and usually can survive a couple of rounds up close, and both have a "get out of Dodge rule" (teleport homers for terminators, "fly" for jump packs), few people are going to bother with drop pods.

[Hopper21]

Even just making the drop pods come down at the beginning of the movement phase so that units could move out of them would go a long way towards making them worth their cost.

 

For Land Speeders, giving them deepstrike back would help a ton as well.

 

Hunters and stalkers could use a points drop on account of how specialized they are too.

 

Did I mention Eviscerators yet? Eviscerators cost one million points. Eviscerators.

 

Are you guys still going to take assault cannon Razorbacks or is there an argument for the heavy bolter now?

Im certainly looking at HB now as a viable choice. At a rumoured 44/45pts i may just push to twin Lascannons instead and spread my AA.

[crazyterran]

114 points is still not bad for 12 6/-1/1 shots. If the rumor is true.

[Bremon]

I’ll still use assault cannons. Heavy bolters are not happening.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Personally, if it's not a Codex or Web-based errata, it can swing.

 

Already have 3 books to lug about, sometimes 4 when gaming. Not wanting another one.

 

Just a cash-grab by GW during an already expensive period, with a view to making marines generally worse by bumping prices up on long-term favoured weapons, while dropping Primaris points, to sell more Primaris...

 

Unfortunately, there is no viable way to make sweeping changes to printed codexes such as updating every point cost except with something like this. Imagine an FAQ that changes practically every rule and points value of your codex. Might as well reprint the codex at that point.

 

Of course digital copies should get these changes for free, IMO. I certainly wouldn't appreciate it if my video games required me to pay for patches and bug fixes.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Tyberos the Red Wake

[Lemondish]

 

 

Personally, if it's not a Codex or Web-based errata, it can swing.

 

Already have 3 books to lug about, sometimes 4 when gaming. Not wanting another one.

 

Just a cash-grab by GW during an already expensive period, with a view to making marines generally worse by bumping prices up on long-term favoured weapons, while dropping Primaris points, to sell more Primaris...

Unfortunately, there is no viable way to make sweeping changes to printed codexes such as updating every point cost except with something like this. Imagine an FAQ that changes practically every rule and points value of your codex. Might as well reprint the codex at that point.

 

Of course digital copies should get these changes for free, IMO. I certainly wouldn't appreciate it if my video games required me to pay for patches and bug fixes.

The codex has all the points listed on about three pages in the back of the book, so they could absolutely update them army wide in an faq pdf release without much hassle.

 

A book like this could and should be about balancing rules in addition to point changes.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Lemondish

[Ishagu]

Who says there won't be a few updated datasheets?

[Mileposter]

Who says there won't be a few updated datasheets?

Agreed here.

 

Besides, Chapter Approved is a perfect place to put the kibosh on things that are questionable like the "Can I put dual autocannons on my dreadnought?" silliness with a single updated datasheet. Or those spots where unit A is "TOO STRONK!" because of a single ability or some such, like maybe Issodon, and they update the ability. Doesn't take much real estate to do either, and things like Chapter Approved provides a great place to do all of it for the whole game at once inexpensively - and with the added benefit of us players getting extra thigns in the process like core game updates.

 

As for carrying books - perhaps solutions like Battlescribe could help you out. But even without that, it's far less books than before if you're not playing Imperial Soup. Or buy the digital versions. Or just don't try to carry the books everywhere. So many solutions!

 

EDIT: Aaaaaand sorry for tangent in the wrong thread.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Pentharian

[Marshal Arthur]

I don’t mind a single extra book. Besides, with the rules simplification I hardly need to refer to rukebooks. BattleScribe gets me my info on my sent list and I remember most of the base rules anyways. A quick reference sheet printed out and put in my copy of chapter Approved (when it’s released) is probably all I’ll carry for casual games.

[Damo1701]

Dual A.C. dread is legit... they be said so several times. Why does it need to be removed?

 

GW need to pick what they are doing with this edition, and apply that across all factions, not remove stuff here, but add extra stuff to that faction there.

[Lemondish]

Dual A.C. dread is legit... they be said so several times. Why does it need to be removed?

 

GW need to pick what they are doing with this edition, and apply that across all factions, not remove stuff here, but add extra stuff to that faction there.

 

I don't think anybody is clamoring to have it removed so much as having it clarified in the form of an official updated data sheet that includes the option. 

 

 

Who says there won't be a few updated datasheets?

Agreed here.

 

Besides, Chapter Approved is a perfect place to put the kibosh on things that are questionable like the "Can I put dual autocannons on my dreadnought?" silliness with a single updated datasheet. Or those spots where unit A is "TOO STRONK!" because of a single ability or some such, like maybe Issodon, and they update the ability. Doesn't take much real estate to do either, and things like Chapter Approved provides a great place to do all of it for the whole game at once inexpensively - and with the added benefit of us players getting extra thigns in the process like core game updates.

 

As for carrying books - perhaps solutions like Battlescribe could help you out. But even without that, it's far less books than before if you're not playing Imperial Soup. Or buy the digital versions. Or just don't try to carry the books everywhere. So many solutions!

 

EDIT: Aaaaaand sorry for tangent in the wrong thread.

 

 

I think they announced that the only things FW related will be points changes - no rule changes. I doubt there will be any change to Issy unless it's a point increase. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Lemondish

[Galron]

This will be a pleasant change. Maybe we will see a little more variety of marines on the board now. It certainly frees up a few points in both of my lists with primaris in them. As mentioned, doesn't make the drop pod any more usable though. Hopefully FW follows suit eventually with some of its knee-jerk point values in their indices. I love the caestus but there is no way it should be pointed much higher than a Raven.

[Lemondish]

This will be a pleasant change. Maybe we will see a little more variety of marines on the board now. It certainly frees up a few points in both of my lists with primaris in them. As mentioned, doesn't make the drop pod any more usable though. Hopefully FW follows suit eventually with some of its knee-jerk point values in their indices. I love the caestus but there is no way it should be pointed much higher than a Raven.

Faeit shared a rumour that FW point updates will be coming, but no rules updates, which is the second time I've heard that.

[Ishagu]

I heard the same from an unrelated source.

 

Still, point adjustments are very welcome!

[Lemondish]

I heard the same from an unrelated source.

 

Still, point adjustments are very welcome!

Indeed! Though what I've heard was FW specific here, and at no point was it suggested that updated rules or data sheets were not happening for GW units. In fact, the constant stressing of FW not having rules changes makes me think that there will be some for GW units.

 

Or at least I hope so, if only for the fun that comes with change.

[Drahazar]

I hope the give legion of the damned their plasma cannon back and drop their points some sense they lost some rules.

[Claws and Effect]

 

This will be a pleasant change. Maybe we will see a little more variety of marines on the board now. It certainly frees up a few points in both of my lists with primaris in them. As mentioned, doesn't make the drop pod any more usable though. Hopefully FW follows suit eventually with some of its knee-jerk point values in their indices. I love the caestus but there is no way it should be pointed much higher than a Raven.

Faeit shared a rumour that FW point updates will be coming, but no rules updates, which is the second time I've heard that.

 

Hope that includes a reduction to the Fire Raptor. I love it, but it's annoying having almost a quarter of my points tied up in a unit that really only excels at killing infantry.