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The Return of Necromunda... (New Thread)

Necromunda

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#1
Major_Gilbear

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As the previous Necromunda rumours thread reached 47 pages in length, it had become rather difficult to navigate the current rumours and information ascertained.

 

Therefore, this will be the new thread for these rumours, which will hopefully help all those interested find the rumour details more quickly.

 

Firstly, a quick potted summary of details that should answer questions I've seen asked a lot recently:

 

- Core rules for the game (in 2D) are in the starter in box. Tokens and proprietary dice too (although themed sets of the dice are also available separately).

- Gang rules for Escher and Goliath are in the starter box.

- Gang War supplement has 3D add-on rules, new gang member types (Juves, Specialists etc) for Escher and Goliath, campaign rules, and scenarios. The core rules from the main box are still required.

- Downloadable PDF will be released for other House "legacy" gangs as an interim get-you-by. These will be limited to what the physical models are armed with apparently.

- Other House gangs will presumably feature in further Gang Wars rules supplements as they get released.

- Other gangs planned after House gangs, starting with the Outlander gangs.

- Future gangs and expansions might be set in different hives on Necromunda, including the GSC-infested Hive Secundus.

- Articles to appear in WD, with various scenarios and other rules snippets.

 

 

 

Further recent details summarised by Petitioner's City below:

 

 

EDIT: From War of Sigmar & its sources:
 

Necromunda Unboxing (by Gorrilla Painting)

 

Hello everyone !!
Gorilla Painting from NZ (connected to a shop there i think) made an unboxing of the Necromunda 2dbox + comment on the Gang wars extension.
I) Sprue and plastic
2 Sprues per gang. Duplicate but with quite of lot of customisation (weapons, arms, face, hair) 
1 Objective sprue 
1 doors Sprue 
1 template sprue 
Bases (textured one)


II) Assembly notice :
Lot of optional choice make an extra gang box a must have to get 20 customized models !! with cutting drilling and magnet maybe wysiwyg could be doable in Necromunda !!


III) Tiles, Box and punch cards !
9 tiles dual sided 
The bottom of the box count as an extra room (haha good idea) 


IV) Cards
Riding the cards Hype you can use them to play the starting gang in the 2D game and create gangs using the blank one. 
It could be a good idea to use sleeves or laminating them to use eraser pen. Ps: Cards are not compatible with MTG sleeve.
Then there are gangs tactics (More detail in the gameplay vid today on twitch)
 
g

 

Andy Hoare - Necromunda interview!
https://war-of-sigma.../bloggings/2547
 

Hello everyone !!
Huge interview with Andy about the Necromunda box and the future of the game:
Andy Hoare:
Project manager, 
Specialist Games Team of seven - started last year with Blood Bowl. 
They were working on Necromunda since a long time. 
Favorite game of Andy, still plays it. 
When all the plastic terrain was ready he asked his boss to do a new Necromunda and they said Yes! 
They are talking about Underhive no the 3D campaign today - next week is about the Supplement book.
Background: 
First version was Confrontation in WD. 
Then 1995 classic boxset, played since then. 
Revisited in 2000 by the old fanatic studio. 
Dedicated groups are still playing the old version today. 
Andy Hoare group plays it, house rules it, amends it, created new stuff.
Models: 
Duplicate sprues but 10 different models can be made! 
2 for each gang. 
Objectives and tentacle sprue, 
traps (used with gang tactic cards) 
Priority marker. 
Hatches and doors: designed to fit with zone mortalis and other FW scenery. 
Rules book: you need it, even if you want to do 3D only. Underhive is a complete game. 
9 tiles same size as Zone Mortalis tiles.
Andy says: 
They played Necromunda so much on mortalis that the 2D tiles weren't a compromise. 
Beta tester really liked the game in 2D, and it didn’t felt like a starter set used to learn the game. 
Even if you see square on the tiles you still use inches in game, so it’s really necromunda on tiles.
Punch counter: 
-Ready and pinned counter are recto verso 
-Pre generated gangs are on cards to get started super fast. 
-Fire is back in the game, 
-You can go prone and remove fire. 
-Vision arcs: because models have facing (like warmachine) 
-place a duct between walls to go through it - you can even launch a grenade, fire through it etc. 
-Lot of skills allow you to by pass overwatch, backstab ppl.
Custom dice: 
-2 sets 
-Gang specific dice. (adding pics soon)
Cards: 
22 blank cards 
Are already laminated !!!! so you can erase 
Gang tactics: Generics, esher, goliath. Future gang will get future cards. 
They have extra set of gang tactics cards ready to sell, not the same in the box, they are extension cards.
Differentiation: 
Andy Hoare plays rogue trader all the time !! so he added the old stat (int and all) to grant a lot of different options/ 
Stat line of different gangs set them apart and with gangs tactic’s they play really different.
Zone Mortalis bases, designed to match the tiles of the boards but also with details of mechanicus 
terrain.
Book: 
Can’t buy the rulebook on it’s own. Because dice needed, but good values.
LEGACY RULES: 
PDF on the web site, live on the game release date, for orlock, van sar, etc.. but only for the weapons the original metal models got. So don’t get too hyped.
Future 
Orlocks are next year. 
One plastic team every quarter +possible few wd, pdf article. 
Brand new gangs are hyped. 
John blanche made a book a of 80pages of fluff but the book went missing. And then new archivist of GW TIM found this book for andy. SO LOT OF inspiration. 
Box set available in: eng, fren, german. 
They have stock of the box - don't be scared, you should get your box if you pre-order.
///////////// 
Rules: 
Total rewrite of the rules for underhive. Gang war 3D, is built on the underhive rule set. 
It’s a "I go, you go": “interleave turn” system. So you can active more than 1 models (no details on how).
Gang tactics: 
All scenario use them in a different way : choose, drawn at random, weak side can draw more or choose. There is a lot of granularity with these.
Dice: 
Fire power dice : Each time you roll to hit, you roll 1+ fire power dice (depending on the weapon). Work as a sustained fire dice and ammo dice.
Red tiles: The box is a necromunda loading dock. It’s a training room at start and will be used for multiplayers 3+ (pit fight style) or future scenario.
Lvl up: 
Gangs are more than the 15 players you used to have in necromunda classic. 
Now you can select a crew before each scenario. 
Specialist, juvie and champion get skills, gangers can’t but can be promoted to champ or specialist. 
Rules for juvie will be in gangs war book, with a lot of importance. If the juvie survive a few games it became the star of the gang(no more details but lot of hype around the juvie.)
WW preparing a map of underspire in 3D.
Gang war games use a 4by4 size table.
Support class: doc, ratling cook, ….(4 planned) 
FW upgrade are already on the way to new weapons, iconic item … 
House weapons blitzer will be made with rules to them ! 
They want to make rules for everything possible to allow kitbashing a goliath with a driller ! 
Champions are the new heavy !
Genestealer and Chaos Cults will get rules down the line. Maybe quite early via online or WD!! 
All the Genestealer Cult weapons are usable by all other gangs too, so have fun kit-bashing stuff!
/cheers. 
bob.
 

 

Esher gang presentation
 
https://war-of-sigma.../bloggings/2548
 

Hello again !
Transcript of the second interview (in depth explanation of the Esher clan).
Tactic show : Necromunda UnderHive (Esher House)
The game use an I go you go encapsulated in a turn sequence.
Each activation you have 2 actions: Simple (no max), Basic action (like a simple action but limited to one per turn, shooting, attacking), Complex action, take the full round : Charge.
Very close to a rpg system.
Reina

Works like AOS/8th for M,ws,bs,w,A. 
Init 3+ : above average useful to : avoid fall, disengage, 
Ld : Above average 7+, 
Cool : Less cool than average 8+, 
Will & Int : are above average. 7+
Lasgun 
Rng 
S = short range 
L = Long range
Acc(urracy) 
S = Short range mod 
L = Long range mod
Stre = Strength
Ap = Amor pen
D = 1
Am = 2+ (ammo roll)
Plentiful quality : Use action to reload and doesn't need to roll. (by extension you can reload on any weapon you have if you spend an action and pass the ammo roll.)
Stilleto knife
+1 to hit, 
toxin : if wound a target, 2d6 vs T+1d6 or injury roll.
Flak Armour
6+ save,  5+ vs explosion
Chem-synth
Before an attack with a toxic weapon, use action, give a -1 to toughness test, 
Need to roll a cool test if you are in combat. 
10 cred (cheap)
Choke gas grenade
3'' blast, on a hit roll a D6 vs T if you equal or max = wound roll.
Nokomi

las pistol : same stats as a lasgun but with shorter range. 
Pistol : Usable in close combat once each. Can use both hand at -1 hit and shoot twice. 
Gun figther skill : remove the -1 to hit while dual attacking (she doesn't have the skill but was explained there)
Rhosinn 

Power sword 
Str + 1, -2 AP 
Parry : Force to re roll on successful attack. (stack if you have two sword) 
Power : Can't parry a power weapon without a power weapon.
Olina 

Autogun : same as a lasgun but with rapid fire. 
Rapid fire  = Roll 1 special ammo dice to get up to extra 2 hits.
Frag grenade = good point is deviation are stopped by wall and obstacle. 
They have knockback. 
Knockback = push 1'' away.
Tumala champion 

Better stats all around but T & S . (Goliath champ don't get improved ws bs.)
Chem-thrower : Gaz flamer, use the template (teardrop one), anything you touch is hit, you don't need to roll to hit.
Have the Gaz rule (roll a dice vs T if you beat or equal, wound roll).
Sprint : If you double move, the second move action count as twice (so 3X move)
Marika champion 

Normal Esher champion stat, 
Plasma pistol, work like 8th plasma.
Scare = Can't reload using an action. Only way to reload is looting a chest during the game. 
Unstable = can explode, if you roll the "ammo" symbol need to check ammo if failed the weapon explode. 
Counter attack = If someone attack you in melee you get an extra attack for counter attacking. (By extension you can strike back after an attack have been resolved.)
Jelena Leader 

Extra attack, 
5+ LD is strong. 
Combi = If the Boltgun run out of ammo, the needle rifle can shoot too. 
Versatile = Can be used as a melee action or ranged action. 
Shock, on a 6+ to hit, auto wound. 
Rally : Leader can use LD roll during her activation to rally broken friendly models.
Tactics cards
4 specific to house Esher :
-Stealthy advance : Free move at the start of the game. 
-Scrag : Enemy fighter must roll cool if a friend get taken down at 9'' or get a -2 at 3''
Rules
Stre vs T works like in 8th.
Hit = pinning, to remove pinning you need to use a move action. So even the lowly lasgun is good.
Pair of weapon = Extra attack (pistol, melee ...)
Pinned = you go down on a HIT and you need to spend an action to get up.
Charging = Grant an extra attack.
For LD, CL, Wil, Int are rolled with 2D6 and need to roll equal or more.
Gaz : Roll 1 dice, if you roll T or more, injury roll. 
Toxin : 2d6 vs T+1d6 or injury roll.
Can flame template over friendly !
Champions start with 1 skills.
If you use a weapon that deal 2w on a 1w target you roll 2 injury roll.
If you are attacked in melee you can strike back after attack resolution.
Champions : When a champion activate you can activate a ganger in a 4 '' at the same time.
Conclusion : Lot of interesting stuff, the only thing that i will regret will be the old melee system that were perfect for Necromunda. I just hope that the strike back after being attack work well enough to replace it.
/cheers. 
bob.

 

 

 

Slave to Darkness provided a helpful picture showing the relative scale of the new models to the old ones:

 

Just seen this on Facebook, for those wondering about scale creep. 

 

23380286_10155870709643236_5098063984649

 

 

Finally Noctus Cornix recently showed off a Goliath compared to a a Marine from the Betrayal at Calth box:

 

How about I show you. smile.png

 

FWj3vg1.jpg


Edited by Major_Gilbear, 14 November 2017 - 10:21 AM.

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Charlo

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Lol whut those Goliath!?!


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Noctus Cornix

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Robbienw

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It does say in the fluff for the Goliaths that they are bigger than space marines...


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Kastor Krieg

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Damn, I didn't realize THAT big. That's basically abhuman, almost Ogryn size. Wow.


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I would add the following from the Drinking Hole:

 

 

 

Nice rundown on Empire of Ghost:

 

 

 

Necromunda: Underhive and Gang War Initial Thoughts
I had a chance today to sit down with both the copies of the new Necromunda Underhive boxed game and the Gang War expansion book and wanted to give my initial thoughts on both. As such, this shouldn't be taken as a true review, nor as a simple unboxing, but more as an attempt to provide my own feedback with my own background.

For those of you who are unfamiliar, I have a long and varied history with Necromunda. Way back in 1995, when I was 16, Necromunda was the very first miniatures game I had ever bought. I played it nearly every other day that year and pulled it out often during high school. When my now-wife and I moved to Chicago in the early 2000s, there were essentially no gaming stores in business within city limits in which to play, so I formed a small group of players. By 2008, I had been introduced to the Adepticon gaming convention and volunteered to run a Necromunda tournament that became an annual tradition and was, as far as I know, the only competitive Necromunda event in the world (at least during that time). Shortly thereafter, I sat down and wrote the expanded ruleset known as Inquisimunda - an expansion still played, even after my involvement in the project waned and I had stepped away; version 2 being due to the efforts of many wonderful volunteers. With the new release and my prior experience, I've been tapped to lead the Necromunda team at Adepticon. So, you can say I'm fairly knowledgeable on the subject....

Underhive Boxed Game

With that said, these are my initial impressions done by taking about an hour to flip through the book and recall previous versions, so there may be some minor errors. Measurements are approximate since I didn't have a ruler. The boxed game itself is simply jammed pack with lots of GW goodness. The templates are of similar size as those used previously - a flamer template, 3" blast and 5" blast. Terrain includes 10 2"x2" barricades, ~5 Loot Caskets, a "Beast Lair" marker, Priority marker, 4 computer terminals, and a small Imperial shrine (which, intriguingly, has no rules....perhaps a Redemptionist objective in the future???). Terrain also includes 5 large 4"x2" doors and 2 1.5"x2" small doors that are only used in the "board" style game.

The miniatures themselves are definitely larger than the old ones but probably not "true" 32mm. The most noticeable difference would be in the Eschers; Goliaths could easily mix old and new miniatures. There is a lot of interchangeability with heads and hair, but probably not quite as much with arms. Interestingly enough, each gang has a different base size (Eschers 25mm, Goliaths 32mm), which means that Goliaths will have a wider area of effect but will also likely suffer more from templates and Broken results. The Escher models in the box tend to favor las and autogun weaponry, while the Goliaths tend to favor stub and shotgun weaponry.

There are 10 named Goliath cards, 10 named Escher cards, and ~20 blank generic fighter cards. I am unaware of any plastic sleeves on the market that would adequately fit their larger size, but it will only be a matter of time before someone releases them (or they could be laminated). The named Goliaths tend to be slower but stronger and with heavier armor; whereas the named Escher tend to be faster and more nimble but with weaker armor. Terrain tiles are about 12" square with 1.5" squares to denote tunnels and passageways.

One of the new features are the addition of "Tactics" cards which are similar to those used in 8th ed. 40K. Each gang has 4 unique Tactics cards and there are 20 generic Tactics cards. Goliath Tactics are shrug off injuries, increase charge distance, increase Strength and Toughness, and stand up Pinned models. Escher Tactics are counter a charge, force an opponent to Nerve test before battle, set a gas trap, or move their models before battle. Generic Tactics include (but are not limited to) extra armor, bobby traps, hidden passages, and multiple activations.

The main rulebook is fairly nice. If I have one criticism of it, I'd say the old rulebooks have much more artwork and more in-game pictures, which tended to add inspiration for new players to get their miniatures and terrain assembled and painted. The first ~35 pages of the book are devoted solely to fluff and immersing the player into the world of Necromunda. If you are familiar with the old rules, there really isn't much new info here.

Fighter characteristics and loadouts are fairly similar to previous editions, with some new characteristics (Cool, Willpower, and Intelligence). Each turn players roll for Priority and place their Readied markers and are then able to activate each fighter and that fighter gets ~2 actions. Actions include basic move, basic shoot, aiming (+1 to hit), charging (+D3" to Move - HUGE change from previous editions!), take cover (move up to 1/2 move then go to Pinned), Coup De Grace (basically eliminate an injured fighter not engaged in HtH combat that's within 1"; this is a free action if injured in HtH combat as with previous editions), reloading (basically roll to make a weapon usable after a failed Ammo roll), open or close a door, use a terminal, break down a door, crawl/fire through a duct, and open/lockpick/carry a Loot Casket.

Fighters in HtH combat have two basic actions - fight or retreat. Pinned fighters may stand (recover from Pinning), crawl (1/2 move), blind fire (shooting attack, -2 to hit), and reload. Injured fighters may only crawl.

Shooting and HtH mechanics are similar to previous editions, with the addition of a "prone" stance to shooting that confers a -1 to hit modifier at long range. There is a 90 degree vision arc, so models in competitive environments will absolutely need to have a tick mark on their bases to denote facing. Fighters may fire two pistol weapons at the same target with one action with a -1 to hit modifier. The Stray Shot rules do remain. And yes, Overwatch is "gone", having been changed to a skill (more on skills in the Gang War section). Multiple HtH combats are handled as each fighter either adding or subtracting 1 to the fight result.

To wound, gone are the calculation tables comparing Strength and Toughness on X and Y axis. Instead, it is a simple chart - twice the Strength to Toughness? 2+. Strength Greater than Toughness? 3+, etc. Injury results are the same, with the term "Seriously Injured" replacing Down. Nerve Tests for fighters are taken if a friendly model goes OOA or is Seriously Injured within 3" - test using the Cool characteristic, adding 1 for each other friendly fighter nearby. If failed, the fighter runs away to cover and is Broken. Broken fighters continue to run if there are enemies in LOS, are never Readied, may Rally in the End phase, and while Broken only react to HtH combat attacks.

Unto basic terrain rules - Doors block LOS and movement (when closed), have T 5 and 4 Wounds. Barricades provide -1 to hit modifier in Shooting and HtH combat. The "Beast Lair" marker is very cool - if a fighter ends their activation within 6" there is a chance they're attacked with a VERY tough attack (I won't ruin how brutal it is here! Mwahahaha...) and has T4, 3 Wounds, and is -2 to hit! Ducts act as walls and pitfalls require Initiative checks if a character is pushed into them or they go Out of Action. Toxic Sludge pools make fighters -1T if they stand within them and can cause them to go Out of Action is they are knocked down into them. Loot Caskets have the possibility to be a trap, nothing at all, or ammo.

Gang War

Hmmmm....it's tough to say how I feel about this expansion. They've done a nice job of streamlining some of the more "advanced" rules here, but there are also some really glaring omissions. The main "board" game style is referred to as Zone Mortalis and seems to line up with (admittedly what little I know of) Zone Mortalis itself. The "3D" or "Classic" style is referred to here as Sector Mechanicus. I'm not sure how much traction the community at large will give these easily trademarked names but....time will tell.

As for the 3D rules themselves, there really isn't a whole lot here, with the rules only taking up about 8 pages. Terrain is either an obstacle (anything smaller than 2"x2"x2") or a Structure. True LOS is covered, terrain is catalogued as either normal (full move) or difficult (1/2 move) terrain, platforms and overhangs are covered as well (basically, if a figure can fit, they can move there). Climbing without the aid of a ladder is done at 1/2 movement; climbing with a ladder is done at full movement and the time-honored tradition of "running" up a ladder is omitted (that's definitely going to be house ruled by veterans). Jumping, leaping, and falling are treated in similar ways to previous editions. Doors are omitted here (unless of course, like me, your terrain has doors, in which case you're free to use the Door rules). And.....that's about it.

Next are the campaign rules. The biggest change here is to the Experience and advancement rules. Experience is given (for now) only by taking another fighter Out of Action, which earns +1XP. Everyone but basic Gangers are given the chance to "purchase" advancements at a set rate. Every subsequent time that advancement is purchased, it's cost increases by +2XP. Basic Gangers must "pool" their first 6XP, at which point they roll 2D6 and take a one-time advancement (unless they are promoted to Specialist by rolling a 2 or 12). I'm unsure how I feel about this - while it certainly speeds up the post-game sequence, it feels too much like Mordheim, in which your basic fighters were pretty much meat shields for the Heroes.

With that said, GW have also left out an "Underdog" Table. For those of you who don't know, this table was the difference in points between each players gang rating that would add additional experience to the "weaker" gang in the post-game sequence depending on how much of a difference there was. This helped to balance out play between older and newer gangs and gave players entering campaigns at later points a slight boost to keep them competitive.

The injury list is similar, including the much-hated Death result and Captured result. The territory list is similar (if not exactly the same), as are the Skill tables and much of the Trading Post. Included at the very end of the book are six Scenarios, of which I think Border Dispute is probably the only truly "new" scenario.

The biggest omission here, and I think my main issue with this book, is the lack of Hired Guns. Hired Guns were probably the best thing about previous editions, as they added a bit of flavor and the ability to balance out a gang that may be lacking in an area of expertise. Hired Guns like the Scum, Ratskin Scout, Pit Slave, and Wyrd are absolutely iconic miniatures from GW's 1990s lineup and their absence is glaring here. In their absence, I think GW should have included something extra to balance it out, perhaps something like some exclusive Tactics Cards


In conclusion, this is an almost perfect re-release of a beloved miniatures game and I really hope that GW is willing to listen to feedback from the community and expand upon this initial release to bring it more in line with the vast array of gangs, miniatures, and fluff from previous editions.
 
PS: does anyone have a pic of the general trading post - from the youtube videos it still looks really limited - is this true? Or is it a match for the old general ones?
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

gallery_75911_12239_665786.pngSorry about the large image, but you can just make out 1000 credits in the first paragraph. 

 

 

 


Also from yaktribes, no one seems to be mentioning the following leaked rules here (the first you can see in YouTube reviews, the others ppl are talking about so maybe not confirmed)

- gang members can only have up to 3 weapons, with unwieldy counting as 2 of the 3. Bulging biceps possibly makes unwieldy weapons back to 1.
-you can't change the weapons of your gangers, juves and specialists later in the campaign. Leaders and champions can have alternate sets reflected in cards in your gang deck.
- the gang deck is shuffled and drawn from at random for certain or possibly all scenarios.

 

 

The source of some of this:

 

 

Malo said: 

I wonder if they look at all the Necromunda campaigns and discussions over the years and saw how much folks were modifying their gangers, implementing magnetizing on limbs etc. and thought "hey we should make this easier for them and not allow weapon changes!"
That's exactly what happened.
Here is a screenshot of the page in question, as shown in BolS video:
6054341213.png
It's a little blurry, but there is a designer's note in the upper right hand corner titled "Put away the clipper" that explains their reasoning.

Basically, the idea is that you can't remove anything from a fighter card (except maybe injuries). Once a fighter has been asssigned a weapon, it's glued to their hand. Leaders and Champions (but not Juves nor Specialists) can have as many loadouts as you want, that are each represented by a different card. Here is the kicker though: in scenarios where your fighters are selected at random, the loadouts of your champions and leader will also be random (you first select a loadout at random for each of them, and then shuffle those cards with the other fighters before you draw your crew.)
Note that it means that promoted juves will be stuck with their initial low-cost loadout forever, and will always have a chance to be forced to use it in a fight, even if they became a champion and were given a shiny heavy weapon in the mean time...
It probably also means that captured equipment is no longer a thing.

On the plus side, the Heavy Bolter is mentionned (as an example of a weapon that can't be equiped on a Juve)
This page also confirms that a weapon may have different costs in the trading post and HWL. 5 credits Escher lasgun appears not to be a typo.

 

And again:

 

 

 

 

We already know what the rules actually say:
  • Juves can gain advances using the same table as leader and champion, and automatically become champions during the downtime between turf wars if they have at least 5 advances.
  • Gangers gain a semi-random stat increase every 6 XP, with a 1/18 chance to become a specialist instead (or if they get an increase for stats they already maxed). Specialists can then become champions by paying 12 XP.
  • Everyone can also become the new leader when the previous leader dies (you must normally select a Champion for the job, but if the gang has no champion, a Specialist or Juve will do, or, if you have no other choice, a Ganger)
One thing that hasn't been pointed out until then is that leader/champions/specialists (but not juves) must pay 2 extra XP for each advance they already have whenever they buy an advance (it's unclear to me whether advances previously gained as a Juve/Ganger count towards this though).

Another interesting bit is that the gang composition rules need only be followed when you buy new fighters, meaning you can promote as many specialists/juves to champion as you wish, no matter your reputation or the number of gangers you currently have.

And more:

 

 

 

Scenarios


  • Tunnel skirmish - both select 6 models. If players wish you can play on a bigger board and use a bigger crew.
  • The Trap - both use entire gang.
  • Forgotten riches - both players roll on a table to see the maximum they can choose (5-9 gangers)
  • The Marauders - attacker picks up to 6 crew. Defender rolls 2 D6 and picks the highest. This is the number of crew they have (1-6). All other gang members are reinforcements thoughand can come in at the end phase of each turn so they will likely use most of their crew.
  • Sneak attack - attacker rolls on a table and will have a crew of 5-9 members that they choose. Defender picks up to 5 members. The rest may come on if the alarm is raised.
  • Smash & Grab - attacker uses full gang. Defender told a table to determine maximum size they can choose which is between 4-8

  • stand-off - you select your gang. No limit to its size.
  • Looters - attacker selects gang with no limit. Defender has D3+4 random members but the remaining members are reinforcements.
  • Ambush - attacker selects gang with no limit. Defender random D3+5.
  • Border dispute - both have random D3 +3 members. Si h the rest being reinforcements.
  • Sabotage - attacker selects gang with no limit. Defender 5 random members as sentries but before drawing their crew but you can declare any members you don’t want to be sentries. The rest of the crew are reinforcements.
  • The Extraction - attacker attacker selects gang with no limit. Defender random members as sentries but before drawing their crew but you can declare any members you don’t want to be sentries. The rest of the crew are reinforcements.
First six are the rulebook, second six are gang wars expansion. 

From this it’s pretty clear that there is a real mix. There will be tiles where having a smaller elite gang is great as your 6 members would be more toiled up, and similarly in a random gang size scenario you are more likely to have a better draw. But then there are so many missions where you use everyone, or everyone else can be a reinforcement. 

It will certainly be interesting to see what seems to play out as an optimum setup. 

What I know from making lists on Friday when we were gaming is that 1000 credits doesn’t go far. In particular with Goliaths. I made a gang with 9 Goliath members and they weren’t exactly armed with that much at all. What I’m not sure is if starting with 7 better armed members would give a better opening campaign or not. I’m excited to find out over the next few weeks though.

Edited by Major_Gilbear, 17 November 2017 - 09:04 AM.

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#7
Leif Bearclaw

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It does say in the fluff for the Goliaths that they are bigger than space marines...

 

 

Doesn't mean it's not stupid though (and it certainly is). That said, Munda has always had a bit of a thing with over hyping how big and hard the Goliaths are. It reached a peak in the Kal Jericho novels when plasma blasts were only stunning them, Chainswords would struggle to cut through bare flesh and bone and "you can't kill Goliaths with laspistols" (direct quote when Kal's squaring off against some). Hell, maybe that was Cawl's secret, adding Goliath to Space Marines was how he got Primaris msn-wink.gif.


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#8
Robbienw

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Just saying it said in the new fluff, so is not unexpected.  I agree 100% it is stupid!



#9
OnboardG1

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I'd be interested to see a size comparison between the minis and regular guardsmen. 


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#10
Leif Bearclaw

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Sorry to be the negative voice again, but some of those campaign rules are just terrible. Lack of all the gangs and hired guns reinforces the 'microtransaction/dlc' feeling around this release. The xp system sounds bad, with a lack of guaranteed 'survival' xp and advancement closer to Mordheim (the heroes/henchmen distinction and the power disparity was by far the worst thing about that overall excellent system). However, the kicker here is the lack of the Underdog mechanics. That implementation was brilliant in the old game, thematic and surprisingly effective at correcting a power disparity, yet you still felt at an advantage with a more powerful gang. This sounds like they're repeating the mistake that killed Shadow War for my group. Once someone won a couple of games, their relative power level just snowballed to the point nobody could touch them.

 

Edited for typo.


Edited by Leif Bearclaw, 14 November 2017 - 11:18 AM.

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#11
Chaplain Dosjetka

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Thank you for taking the time to make the summary of the other thread, Major. And cheers for the additional info from the Drinking Hole thread, PC. :tu:

Edit: Got the name wrong for the second part, sorry. :blush:

Edited by Chaplain Dosjetka, 14 November 2017 - 12:14 PM.

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#12
Major_Gilbear

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@ Petitioner's City:

 

Thanks for the extra info! thumbsup.gif

 

 

@ Leif Bearclaw:

 

Your concerns regarding the disparity in power levels between new and experienced gangs could well have been about any edition of Necromunda - it's a complaint I've had since it's original release!

 

There were actually some subtle ways that more experienced gangs were balanced anyway (besides the Underdog Bonus); namely through injuries, the random way skills and stats are rolled for, and by the pinning mechanic.

 

In every case, a well-managed gang with a bit of luck always did become a handful to deal with after just 3 or 4 games, and this is where Andy Chambers suggested the Campaign Arbitrator (i.e., a Gamesmaster) steps in with a special scenario or whatever to help take them down a few pegs.

 

Mordheim was released a few years after Necromunda, and the experience and advancement system that used always seemed much more logical and better-balanced to me; the heroes advance like in Necromunda, but the henchmen only get a few basic stat increases.

 

Since in the new Necromunda the injuries are applied as sustained, it may well be that the balance is quite different from what we've seen before. It's therefore very possible that this, combined with the wider range of stats and the more fixed nature of weapon loadouts etc., changes how more experienced gangs are engaged by less experienced gangs. We'll just have to wait and see this weekend! ;)

 

 

@ Chaplain Dosjetka:

 

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#13
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Thanks a lot for all the detailed information. Unfortunately, the more facts about Munda I get, the less enthusiastic I am. Damn... as someone who played but never owned the original version of the game I would really like to love the new edition but the more I know about it (splitting up of rules, release policy, model size and design), the less excited I am.


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#14
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@Leif
Hey, you don't seem to like the fact that you can't change the gear and weapons for regular gangers? Here's a pro tip - NOW YOU CAN. It's called using a house rule, for feth's sake.

It's not like you're going to play Munda in large international tournaments where  you can't house rule any time soon, are you?


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#15
Leif Bearclaw

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@Leif
Hey, you don't seem to like the fact that you can't change the gear and weapons for regular gangers? Here's a pro tip - NOW YOU CAN. It's called using a house rule, for feth's sake.

It's not like you're going to play Munda in large international tournaments where  you can't house rule any time soon, are you?

Eh? Don't have the foggiest idea what you're going on about there. I never mentioned gear, only 'dlc practice', xp (and it's apparent similarity to the imo, inferior Mordheim system) and the lack of Underdog.

 

'Just House Rule It' is a pointless and dismissive piece of apologetics anyway. It can be applied to anything, generates the same issues each time (what do you do when someone inevitably disagrees) and just seems to be an attempt to shut down anyone who isn't completely positive and enthused. Did you say the same thing every time someone complained about grav spam/formations/riptides etc. in 7th edition? "Don't like it, don't play it" and "House Rule" aren't actually counter arguments for poor design, merely a highly situational solution, and add nothing to online discussions.

 

Funnily enough though, we've already had this idea, It's called 'just play with the old, apparently better, Necromunda rules'. But even that isn't the best solution (new player accessibility, integration of any new releases etc.). We want Necromunda to be fun, and do well. It has a great pedigree and superb potential. But there's plenty to worry about here. If I'm wrong? Brilliant, I get to be pleasantly surprised and enjoy a sweet new game. But, based on recent form, I don't have much faith in GW. I don't want to see Munda trail off like Shadow War did (funnily enough, it was disagreements over House Rules that finally killed it in my gaming group), so it saddens me when it seems like they're making the same mistakes again.



#16
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@Leif
Hey, you don't seem to like the fact that you can't change the gear and weapons for regular gangers? Here's a pro tip - NOW YOU CAN. It's called using a house rule, for feth's sake.

It's not like you're going to play Munda in large international tournaments where  you can't house rule any time soon, are you?

Eh? Don't have the foggiest idea what you're going on about there. I never mentioned gear, only 'dlc practice', xp (and it's apparent similarity to the imo, inferior Mordheim system) and the lack of Underdog.

 

'Just House Rule It' is a pointless and dismissive piece of apologetics anyway. It can be applied to anything, generates the same issues each time (what do you do when someone inevitably disagrees) and just seems to be an attempt to shut down anyone who isn't completely positive and enthused. Did you say the same thing every time someone complained about grav spam/formations/riptides etc. in 7th edition? "Don't like it, don't play it" and "House Rule" aren't actually counter arguments for poor design, merely a highly situational solution, and add nothing to online discussions.

 

Funnily enough though, we've already had this idea, It's called 'just play with the old, apparently better, Necromunda rules'. But even that isn't the best solution (new player accessibility, integration of any new releases etc.). We want Necromunda to be fun, and do well. It has a great pedigree and superb potential. But there's plenty to worry about here. If I'm wrong? Brilliant, I get to be pleasantly surprised and enjoy a sweet new game. But, based on recent form, I don't have much faith in GW. I don't want to see Munda trail off like Shadow War did (funnily enough, it was disagreements over House Rules that finally killed it in my gaming group), so it saddens me when it seems like they're making the same mistakes again.

 

There's no need for Undergod because most scenarios limit the amount of gangers you can take, and in those limited scenarios you don't know which fighter's you'll end up with.

 

As for house rules, did you forget that the old Necromunda had to be excessively house ruled in order to be balanced, which is why the LRB and the community made NCE came out?


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#17
deathspectersgt7

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Plastic  weapon upgrade sprues please.


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#18
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The allegation that "you can't change weapons on your gangers" seems to be contradicted by that image - specifically under "seek rare equipment" and "distribute equipment" which specifically mentions weaponry.  If you can look for new weapons, and distribute them to gang members, then obviously they're not stuck with the same kit from Day One.

 

Also, I'd love to see what was in that John Blanche book they mentioned.  Perhaps they will make it available in toto, rather than bits and pieces throughout the publications.


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#19
Leif Bearclaw

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There's no need for Undergod because most scenarios limit the amount of gangers you can take, and in those limited scenarios you don't know which fighter's you'll end up with.

I dunno. That doesn't sound much like 'no need for Underdog' to me. Most of those scenarios are 'whole gang' or 'pick X', so you can just pick your best dudes, or if your gang is just better period than you'll still have a potentially major edge. It even appears that some scenarios (eg Forgotten riches) could result in the higher rating gang being bale to take more gangers. Though granted, there's a few where the attacker seems to be given the edge. However, do we know how attacker/defender is determined? Who picks Scenario? That used to be influenced by the Underdog mechanics, with weaker gangs more likely to be able to pick and attack in the 'bushwhack' type scenarios.

 

Plus, there was more to Underdog than scenario picks (though that was a surprisingly effective equaliser), the boost to xp and income allowed for lagging gangs to catch up with the big boys somewhat. Without it, it seems the only way to catch up with 'early leaders' is to hope they get particularly unlucky with injuries and deaths.

 

 

As for house rules, did you forget that the old Necromunda had to be excessively house ruled in order to be balanced, which is why the LRB and the community made NCE came out?

Not forgotten, as much as 'never really noticed'. Was never really aware of any major changes the LRB made. The only house rule I can recall using was a slight change in the injury table (swiped from Mordheim, as it happens), making 11-15 Dead and 16-21 Multiple Injuries, rather than 11-16 and 21 respectively. Hardly a major balance issue. Though apparently a friend's group used more, covering advancements and the like.

 

However, this is missing my point somewhat. Which was 'just house rule it if you don't like it' isn't really a counter argument to 'this rule is bad/poorly thought/out/doesn't work', otherwise you wouldn't have had things like the LRB or FAQs (or even new editions, to stretch the point a bit further) in the first place.


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#20
Harrowmaster

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The models are quite large, escher are nearly as tall as primaris marines

Edit: That includes the hair, which is quite large, they reach about the shoulder

Edited by Harrowmaster, 14 November 2017 - 03:24 PM.


#21
Brother Heinrich

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The models are quite large, escher are nearly as tall as primaris marines

Edit: That includes the hair, which is quite large, they reach about the shoulder

Yeah I was gonna say it almost looks like its just using a scale all it's own given that both the Escher and Goliath minis are of the same height and both would dwarf a BaC or BoP Plastic Marine and probably be eye level with a Primaris.


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#22
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Might be of use? I think that GSC is same size as Escher.
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#23
Petitioner's City

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The allegation that "you can't change weapons on your gangers" seems to be contradicted by that image - specifically under "seek rare equipment" and "distribute equipment" which specifically mentions weaponry. If you can look for new weapons, and distribute them to gang members, then obviously they're not stuck with the same kit from Day One.

Also, I'd love to see what was in that John Blanche book they mentioned. Perhaps they will make it available in toto, rather than bits and pieces throughout the publications.

As I understand it you can have up to 3 weapons and cant change what they already have; however you can add up to the 3 so models can obtain new weapons up to that limit (possibly aided by bulging biceps).

We shall see however! :)

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Champs and leaders, however...

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Edited by Petitioner's City, 14 November 2017 - 04:06 PM.

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#24
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So how does one realistically upgrade models when you've already painted? Do you just get more of the same model and change the loadout? I'm genuinely curious on how people are planning this out.

 

I mean I can see weapons being magnetized nowadays but other equipment seems a bit harder to do.


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#25
Ulfgrim Alvsbane

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Probably much the same as we used to - snap off the arm or hand (or whatever, clean it up (and put on whatever new part) and paint it.  Nowadays, I'd rather just build a new model.


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