micahwc Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I'd like to add a tech priest to the shadowsword suggestion for the following reason. It can heal D3 wounds per turn on the shadowsword. The shadowsword has 28 wounds and needs to get down to 6 wounds before it's BS is affected due to being Valhallan. A tech priest healing 1 wound per turn over the course of a six turn game makes it unlikely your shadowsword will ever have a reduced ballistic skill, as it will either be killed outright, or healed above 6 wounds. The break point for the lowest profile is 3 wounds for a Valhallan superheavy tank. That's only a 3 wound difference between BS 6+ and BS 4+, and the engineseer can heal D3 wounds per turn. I think for the points you are already spending on a maxed out superheavy the additional points to keep it shooting all game are well spent. I'd also consider carefully positioning it so that it has a few inches to withdraw. It can withdraw from close combat and still shoot at things, so you could use "Crush them!" when an enemy charges you during their turn, withdraw 1", shoot the unit that charged you, and then charge it back and use "Crush them" on your turn or let them charge you again and face overwatch from 10 heavy bolter, 4 lascannons, and a volcano cannon on 5+ with "Defensive Gunners". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG ROB OF DEATH Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 So, to update from the last posting of the list: 1. Quantity is its own quality. 2. The more CPs the better 3. Alpha strikes seem somewhat broadly important 4. Bubble wrap seems somewhat broadly important 5. Heavier weaponry should be sufficient to expeditiously take out high toughness, multi-wound threats 6. Regimental choice seems to lend certain vital advantages to certain units 7. Strategems are potentially very valuable 8. Stacking auras and such can be advantageous 9. Anything can kill anything now 10. FRFSRF can be valuable 11. Heirlooms of Conquest as per Regiments chosen (Valhallan pistol in particular so far) 12. leman russ punishers 13. allies (salamander laser devastators and scout snipers in particular so far) 14. smite and psyker spam (primaris and astropaths) 15. lots of orders 16. Earthshakers 17. mortar HWTs 18. las/plas infantry squads 19. conscripts 20. Outflanking elements (Tallarn hellhounds mentioned so far) 21. Flyers as support for T1 charge (Valkyrie w/bullgrins mentioned so far) 22. 17 hellhounds and 1 company commander in a chimera 23. Cadian and Tempestus doctrines 24. Creed and kell 25. Ogryn bodyguards 26. Pask and tech-priest 27. scout sentinels 28. scions for deep strike 29. leman russ tanks/variants 30. manticore(s) 31. company commanders 32. redundacy 33. battle cannon bare-bone Russes, but maybe Punishers too 34. specific regiment-appropriate relic (Relic of Lost Cadia specifically mentioned) 35. Optimal number of CPs instead of maximum number of CPs 36. maxed out Valhallan shadowsword with psyker support 37. said shadowsword with stormlord 38. anti-alpha strike plans/units/tactics 39. mobile plasma, especially when deep-striking with scions 40. Celestine + assassins + sisters of Silence 41. exploitation of tournament rules if allowed so as to customize relics and psychic powers each game depending on opponent lists 42. add a tech-priest to the shadowsword mentioned earlier, and deploy the shadowsword with sufficient distance from board edge to effectively counter enemy close combat units Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG ROB OF DEATH Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 I forgot an obvious one: play an army list you enjoy playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG ROB OF DEATH Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Ok, it seems the stream of contributions regarding my solicitation on this matter has dried up, so lets move on to community prioritizing! I respectfully seek your input regarding how you rank these 43 suggestions/considerations in order from most important in your opinion, which would be #1 to you- to least important, which would be #43 to you. But lets do it in groups of ten, meaning lets first prioritize the ten most important contributions from #1 to #10, and then so on. Here's the 43 in no particular order that we all have mentioned: 1. Quantity is its own quality. 2. The more CPs the better 3. Alpha strikes seem somewhat broadly important 4. Bubble wrap seems somewhat broadly important 5. Heavier weaponry should be sufficient to expeditiously take out high toughness, multi-wound threats 6. Regimental choice seems to lend certain vital advantages to certain units 7. Strategems are potentially very valuable 8. Stacking auras and such can be advantageous 9. Anything can kill anything now 10. FRFSRF can be valuable 11. Heirlooms of Conquest as per Regiments chosen (Valhallan pistol in particular so far) 12. leman russ punishers 13. allies (salamander laser devastators and scout snipers in particular so far) 14. smite and psyker spam (primaris and astropaths) 15. lots of orders 16. Earthshakers 17. mortar HWTs 18. las/plas infantry squads 19. conscripts 20. Outflanking elements (Tallarn hellhounds mentioned so far) 21. Flyers as support for T1 charge (Valkyrie w/bullgrins mentioned so far) 22. 17 hellhounds and 1 company commander in a chimera 23. Cadian and Tempestus doctrines 24. Creed and kell 25. Ogryn bodyguards 26. Pask and tech-priest 27. scout sentinels 28. scions for deep strike 29. leman russ tanks/variants 30. manticore(s) 31. company commanders 32. redundacy 33. battle cannon bare-bone Russes, but maybe Punishers too 34. specific regiment-appropriate relic (Relic of Lost Cadia specifically mentioned) 35. Optimal number of CPs instead of maximum number of CPs 36. maxed out Valhallan shadowsword with psyker support 37. said shadowsword with stormlord 38. anti-alpha strike plans/units/tactics 39. mobile plasma, especially when deep-striking with scions 40. Celestine + assassins + sisters of Silence 41. exploitation of tournament rules if allowed so as to customize relics and psychic powers each game depending on opponent lists 42. add a tech-priest to the shadowsword mentioned earlier, and deploy the shadowsword with sufficient distance from board edge to effectively counter enemy close combat units 43. play an army list you really enjoy! So, starting off, these are my top ten in order of importance: #2, #4, #1, #5, #32, #30, #6, #29, #15, #43 So, to me, of all 43 suggestions, #2- the more CPs the better- is the most important, and so on down from there for my top ten. What are your rank order top ten factors out of the 43 the community has offered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyboy Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I would say #43 is bar none the most important, if you aren't playing an army you like you will have significantly less motivation to learn and/or play it. Following that I would say #32, #1, #4, #3, #5, #20 (I would rename this reach, outflanking is part of it, but also deep strike and other ways of arriving all over the board), #6, #7, #2. Any of the unit specific ones I wouldn't say are as important here because they are more build specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG ROB OF DEATH Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 I would say #43 is bar none the most important, if you aren't playing an army you like you will have significantly less motivation to learn and/or play it. Following that I would say #32, #1, #4, #3, #5, #20 (I would rename this reach, outflanking is part of it, but also deep strike and other ways of arriving all over the board), #6, #7, #2. Any of the unit specific ones I wouldn't say are as important here because they are more build specific. I like your re-characterizing of #20. "Reach" is a great way to to look at this crucial aspect of attacking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyboy Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I would say #43 is bar none the most important, if you aren't playing an army you like you will have significantly less motivation to learn and/or play it. Following that I would say #32, #1, #4, #3, #5, #20 (I would rename this reach, outflanking is part of it, but also deep strike and other ways of arriving all over the board), #6, #7, #2. Any of the unit specific ones I wouldn't say are as important here because they are more build specific. I like your re-characterizing of #20. "Reach" is a great way to to look at this crucial aspect of attacking! Thank you, it is actually a term I borrowed from magic the gathering. It referred to cards that bypassed most opponents defenses, direct damage spells chief among them. Seemed quite appropriate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG ROB OF DEATH Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 So, having ample time to process recent releases/FAQs, etc, I was wondering if anyone had further interest in adding to this topic....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Commissars can be worth it now, being the first at elite choice and fluff. I would recommend them! 20 points gets you a boltgun hitting on 3s and 3 power sword/maul attacks hitting on 3s. Plus his LD bubble. Very useful now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlchemist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Just a note I find most tourney missions rely upon grabbing objectives, so mobility will do much better than a static gunline. I build my tournament lists by following 3 points, Mobility: to make it to any objectives/ table squares/ etc. Preferably units with ObSec. After the FAQ says that half your army has to be on the table at the start of the game I would suggest not relying on things like deep strike etc. Durability: to hold onto the objective once you have it. Playing pure AM Infantry I don't have much in the way of durability so I use the next best thing. If I need to hold an objective with a unit, try to hold it with 2+ units. Power: you need something to clear your opponent off of an objective. The less objectives he holds denies them points and makes them easier for your guys to pile on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Custodes bikes and the move twice order have been great for grabbing in my games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlchemist Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Either Hell hounds or Scout Sentinels for Alpha strikes. Torn between the two as though the hellhound is more durable and gives more shots, the Scouts tend to draw fire if you are going second and have them mid field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmic66 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Counterassualt units. I play individual and team events using both etc and ITC rulesets. I'm in Australia so my meta may be different but my lists normally start around a pair of shadowswords. Too many things in the game need to die quickly before hitting your lines. I moves to shadows as they can't be tied up in melee, can actually beat things with crush them and will kill monsters, dreads etc on overwatch, averaging two hits with volcano cannon. I've also felt like I've needed to move to vostroyan for +1 to hit to help counter all the -1 and more from eldar, raven guard, relics etc. Vostroyan punisher tank commanders do serious work especially with 30" range. Bullgryns are must gave to stop one enemy assault unit walking through your screens and tagging russes. I use catachan inf as I find with priest, power swords and straken they hit harder than a 4pt model should especially with fix bayonets. Unless using allies that are really cp intensive you don't need very many for guard IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloomfoe Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Tank commanders all the way(I like valhallan personally) Flamers Artillery with reroll 1's to hit(however you want to get there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG ROB OF DEATH Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 Ok, here is where we stand regarding guidelines/factors as suggested by the community to date, as best as I can discern: 1. Quantity is its own quality. 2. The more CPs the better 3. Alpha strikes seem somewhat broadly important 4. Bubble wrap seems somewhat broadly important 5. Heavier weaponry should be sufficient to expeditiously take out high toughness, multi-wound threats 6. Regimental choice seems to lend certain vital advantages to certain units 7. Strategems are potentially very valuable 8. Stacking auras and such can be advantageous 9. Anything can kill anything now 10. FRFSRF can be valuable 11. Heirlooms of Conquest as per Regiments chosen (Valhallan pistol in particular so far) 12. leman russ punishers 13. allies (salamander laser devastators and scout snipers in particular so far) 14. smite and psyker spam (primaris and astropaths) 15. lots of orders 16. Earthshakers 17. mortar HWTs 18. las/plas infantry squads 19. conscripts 20. Outflanking elements (Tallarn hellhounds mentioned so far) 21. Flyers as support for T1 charge (Valkyrie w/bullgrins mentioned so far) 22. 17 hellhounds and 1 company commander in a chimera 23. Cadian and Tempestus doctrines 24. Creed and kell 25. Ogryn bodyguards 26. Pask and tech-priest 27. scout sentinels 28. scions for deep strike 29. leman russ tanks/variants 30. manticore(s) 31. company commanders 32. redundacy 33. battle cannon bare-bone Russes, but maybe Punishers too 34. specific regiment-appropriate relic (Relic of Lost Cadia specifically mentioned) 35. Optimal number of CPs instead of maximum number of CPs 36. maxed out Valhallan shadowsword with psyker support 37. said shadowsword with stormlord 38. anti-alpha strike plans/units/tactics 39. mobile plasma, especially when deep-striking with scions 40. Celestine + assassins + sisters of Silence 41. exploitation of tournament rules if allowed so as to customize relics and psychic powers each game depending on opponent lists 42. add a tech-priest to the shadowsword mentioned earlier, and deploy the shadowsword with sufficient distance from board edge to effectively counter enemy close combat units 43. play an army list you really enjoy! 44. "Reach" capability (deep strike, outflanking, and other means of arriving all over the board) 45. commissars 46. mobility 47. durability 48. power 49. custodes bikes and move twice order 50. hellhounds 51. counter-assault units 52. vostroyan regiment doctrine 53. bullgryns 54. catachan regiment doctrine 55. tank commanders 56. flamers 57. artillery with re-rolls for dice roll of 1 I won't be prioritizing this after all. When I am satisfied there are no more contributions in a timely manner, I will start a new post altogether seeking specific unit/list recommendations that tangibly and operationally incorporate these contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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