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Key guidelines/factors for a tournament-winning army?


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#26
micahwc

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I'd like to add a tech priest to the shadowsword suggestion for the following reason. It can heal D3 wounds per turn on the shadowsword. The shadowsword has 28 wounds and needs to get down to 6 wounds before it's BS is affected due to being Valhallan. A tech priest healing 1 wound per turn over the course of a six turn game makes it unlikely your shadowsword will ever have a reduced ballistic skill, as it will either be killed outright, or healed above 6 wounds. The break point for the lowest profile is 3 wounds for a Valhallan superheavy tank. That's only a 3 wound difference between BS 6+ and BS 4+, and the engineseer can heal D3 wounds per turn. I think for the points you are already spending on a maxed out superheavy the additional points to keep it shooting all game are well spent.

 

I'd also consider carefully positioning it so that it has a few inches to withdraw. It can withdraw from close combat and still shoot at things, so you could use "Crush them!" when an enemy charges you during their turn, withdraw 1", shoot the unit that charged you, and then charge it back and use "Crush them" on your turn or let them charge you again and face overwatch from 10 heavy bolter, 4 lascannons, and a volcano cannon on 5+ with "Defensive Gunners".


Edited by micahwc, 16 November 2017 - 04:04 PM.

The Codex Astartes no doubt has guidance that covers that kind of situation - long, detailed advice that would essentially boil down to "shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones".


#27
BIG ROB OF DEATH

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So, to update from the last posting of the list:

 

1.   Quantity is its own quality.

2.   The more CPs the better

3.   Alpha strikes seem somewhat broadly important

4.   Bubble wrap seems somewhat broadly important

5.   Heavier weaponry should be sufficient to expeditiously take out high toughness, multi-wound threats 

6.   Regimental choice seems to lend certain vital advantages to certain units

7.   Strategems are potentially very valuable

8.   Stacking auras and such can be advantageous 

9.   Anything can kill anything now

10. FRFSRF can be valuable

11. Heirlooms of Conquest as per Regiments chosen (Valhallan pistol in particular so far)

12. leman russ punishers

13. allies (salamander laser devastators and scout snipers in particular so far)

14. smite and psyker spam (primaris and astropaths)

15. lots of orders

16. Earthshakers

17. mortar HWTs

18. las/plas infantry squads

19. conscripts

20. Outflanking elements (Tallarn hellhounds mentioned so far)

21. Flyers as support for T1 charge (Valkyrie w/bullgrins mentioned so far)

22. 17 hellhounds and 1 company commander in a chimera

23. Cadian and Tempestus doctrines

24. Creed and kell

25. Ogryn bodyguards

26. Pask and tech-priest

27. scout sentinels

28. scions for deep strike

29. leman russ tanks/variants

30. manticore(s)

31. company commanders

32. redundacy

33. battle cannon bare-bone Russes, but maybe Punishers too

34. specific regiment-appropriate relic (Relic of Lost Cadia specifically mentioned)

35. Optimal number of CPs instead of maximum number of CPs

36. maxed out Valhallan shadowsword with psyker support

37. said shadowsword with stormlord

38. anti-alpha strike plans/units/tactics

39. mobile plasma, especially when deep-striking with scions

40.  Celestine + assassins + sisters of Silence

41. exploitation of tournament rules if allowed so as to customize relics and psychic powers each game depending on opponent lists

42. add a tech-priest to the shadowsword mentioned earlier, and deploy the shadowsword with sufficient distance from board edge to effectively counter enemy close combat units



#28
BIG ROB OF DEATH

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I forgot an obvious one: play an army list you enjoy playing!



#29
BIG ROB OF DEATH

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Ok, it seems the stream of contributions regarding my solicitation on this matter has dried up, so lets move on to community prioritizing! I respectfully seek your input regarding how you rank these 43 suggestions/considerations in order from most important in your opinion, which would be #1 to you- to least important, which would be #43 to you. But lets do it in groups of ten, meaning lets first prioritize the ten most important contributions from #1 to #10, and then so on. Here's the 43 in no particular order that we all have mentioned:

 

1.   Quantity is its own quality.

2.   The more CPs the better

3.   Alpha strikes seem somewhat broadly important

4.   Bubble wrap seems somewhat broadly important

5.   Heavier weaponry should be sufficient to expeditiously take out high toughness, multi-wound threats 

6.   Regimental choice seems to lend certain vital advantages to certain units

7.   Strategems are potentially very valuable

8.   Stacking auras and such can be advantageous 

9.   Anything can kill anything now

10. FRFSRF can be valuable

11. Heirlooms of Conquest as per Regiments chosen (Valhallan pistol in particular so far)

12. leman russ punishers

13. allies (salamander laser devastators and scout snipers in particular so far)

14. smite and psyker spam (primaris and astropaths)

15. lots of orders

16. Earthshakers

17. mortar HWTs

18. las/plas infantry squads

19. conscripts

20. Outflanking elements (Tallarn hellhounds mentioned so far)

21. Flyers as support for T1 charge (Valkyrie w/bullgrins mentioned so far)

22. 17 hellhounds and 1 company commander in a chimera

23. Cadian and Tempestus doctrines

24. Creed and kell

25. Ogryn bodyguards

26. Pask and tech-priest

27. scout sentinels

28. scions for deep strike

29. leman russ tanks/variants

30. manticore(s)

31. company commanders

32. redundacy

33. battle cannon bare-bone Russes, but maybe Punishers too

34. specific regiment-appropriate relic (Relic of Lost Cadia specifically mentioned)

35. Optimal number of CPs instead of maximum number of CPs

36. maxed out Valhallan shadowsword with psyker support

37. said shadowsword with stormlord

38. anti-alpha strike plans/units/tactics

39. mobile plasma, especially when deep-striking with scions

40.  Celestine + assassins + sisters of Silence

41. exploitation of tournament rules if allowed so as to customize relics and psychic powers each game depending on opponent lists

42. add a tech-priest to the shadowsword mentioned earlier, and deploy the shadowsword with sufficient distance from board edge to effectively counter enemy close combat units

43. play an army list you really enjoy!

 

 

So, starting off, these are my top ten in order of importance:

 

#2, #4, #1, #5, #32, #30, #6, #29, #15, #43

 

So, to me, of all 43 suggestions, #2- the more CPs the better- is the most important, and so on down from there for my top ten. What are your rank order top ten factors out of the 43 the community has offered?



#30
Spyboy

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I would say #43 is bar none the most important, if you aren't playing an army you like you will have significantly less motivation to learn and/or play it.

Following that I would say #32, #1, #4, #3, #5, #20 (I would rename this reach, outflanking is part of it, but also deep strike and other ways of arriving all over the board), #6, #7, #2.

Any of the unit specific ones I wouldn't say are as important here because they are more build specific.
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#31
BIG ROB OF DEATH

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I would say #43 is bar none the most important, if you aren't playing an army you like you will have significantly less motivation to learn and/or play it.

Following that I would say #32, #1, #4, #3, #5, #20 (I would rename this reach, outflanking is part of it, but also deep strike and other ways of arriving all over the board), #6, #7, #2.

Any of the unit specific ones I wouldn't say are as important here because they are more build specific.

I like your re-characterizing of #20. "Reach" is a great way to to look at this crucial aspect of attacking!



#32
Spyboy

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I would say #43 is bar none the most important, if you aren't playing an army you like you will have significantly less motivation to learn and/or play it.

Following that I would say #32, #1, #4, #3, #5, #20 (I would rename this reach, outflanking is part of it, but also deep strike and other ways of arriving all over the board), #6, #7, #2.

Any of the unit specific ones I wouldn't say are as important here because they are more build specific.

I like your re-characterizing of #20. "Reach" is a great way to to look at this crucial aspect of attacking!

Thank you, it is actually a term I borrowed from magic the gathering. It referred to cards that bypassed most opponents defenses, direct damage spells chief among them. Seemed quite appropriate here.
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#33
BIG ROB OF DEATH

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So, having ample time to process recent releases/FAQs, etc, I was wondering if anyone had further interest in adding to this topic.......



#34
Halfpint100

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Commissars can be worth it now, being the first at elite choice and fluff. I would recommend them! 20 points gets you a boltgun hitting on 3s and 3 power sword/maul attacks hitting on 3s. Plus his LD bubble. Very useful now
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#35
TheAlchemist

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Just a note
I find most tourney missions rely upon grabbing objectives, so mobility will do much better than a static gunline.
I build my tournament lists by following 3 points,

Mobility: to make it to any objectives/ table squares/ etc. Preferably units with ObSec. After the FAQ says that half your army has to be on the table at the start of the game I would suggest not relying on things like deep strike etc.

Durability: to hold onto the objective once you have it. Playing pure AM Infantry I don't have much in the way of durability so I use the next best thing. If I need to hold an objective with a unit, try to hold it with 2+ units.

Power: you need something to clear your opponent off of an objective. The less objectives he holds denies them points and makes them easier for your guys to pile on.

#36
noigrim

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Custodes bikes and the move twice order have been great for grabbing in my games

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#37
TheAlchemist

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Either Hell hounds or Scout Sentinels for Alpha strikes.
Torn between the two as though the hellhound is more durable and gives more shots, the Scouts tend to draw fire if you are going second and have them mid field.

#38
bigmic66

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Counterassualt units. I play individual and team events using both etc and ITC rulesets. I'm in Australia so my meta may be different but my lists normally start around a pair of shadowswords. Too many things in the game need to die quickly before hitting your lines. I moves to shadows as they can't be tied up in melee, can actually crush things with crush them and will kill monsters, dreads etc on overwatch, averaging two hits with volcano cannon.

I've also felt like I've needed to move to vostroyan for +1 to hit to help counter all the -1 and more from eldar, raven guard, relics etc.

Vostroyan punisher tank commanders do serious work especially with 30" range.

Bullgryns are must gave to stop one enemy assault unit walking through your screens and tagging russes.

I use catachan inf as I find with priest, power swords and straken they hit harder than a 4pt model should especially with fix bayonets.

Unless using allies that are really cp intensive you don't need very many for guard IMO.

#39
Gloomfoe

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Tank commanders all the way(I like valhallan personally)
Flamers
Artillery with reroll 1's to hit(however you want to get there)




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