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A Broken Throne - Legio II - The Lightning Bearers


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#251
simison

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And very fluffy. Sweet, let's just ditch the Invul then

 

So, that's 15 points saved, bringing it down to 225ish. Grifft, what do you think of that price tag?


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#252
Grifftofer

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Sounds about right.

#253
Hesh Kadesh

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Suggestions

- Raiden Athrawes

-- Change profile to be that of a standard Praetor - keeps things simple, standard Praetor's are fine, and it allows the benefits of the legion rules to then shine

-- Change Power Armour to Artificer Armour - there isn't any real purpose to it. Experience shows that there's no real penalty to AP3 vs AP2, as most run AP2 anyway. I know that means he can tank AP3 shots for the Oni, but the removal of Eternal Warrior should help somewhat

- See Suggestion for Personal Teleporters below

- Condense some of the special rules into one

- Remove Eternal Warrior

- Suggestion; STORM SCRIER; Raiden Athrawes is a Mastery Level 2 Psyker, and knows the Psychic Swordsman, Precognition, and Scrier's Gaze psychic powers. In addition, Oni Spectre Squads can be taken as troops choices in the same detachment as Raiden Athrawes. Any time the squad deploys using the Deep Strike special rule, they may the Scatter Dice - this does apply to any vehicle they are being transported by.

- Suggestion; Warlord Trait; ARCANE WARRIOR; If Raiden accepts a challenge, or issues a challenge that is then accepted by an opponent, gain 1 point of Samsara.

- Suggestion; Lightning, Static Feedback becomes AP6

- Stormheart; I'm a bit lairy of multi-shot pistols. Given that we've upped the attack and BS from the Praetor profile, the benefit of a pistol is already present, and the dropped BS made the shooting attack likely a 2 hit thing. I think changing it to be a pistol (otherwise the same profile, rather than Pistol 3) with the addition of the Deflagrate rule keeps it very similar against AP3 lads, while making the sword Specialist, or Two-Handed. The pistol thing is mainly just going off Athrawes' model by his namesake, while the big sword is clearly Paragon Sized, and this prevents the increased Praetor attack giving him 

- Everything else stays the same

 

Points; Guesstimate 225 (Paragon Blade, Archaeotech Pistol, Iron Halo, Mastery 2), +10pts for slight buffs for S7 Deflagrate Pistol, and Reroll Bad Scatter on Deep Strike, +5 for Personal Teleport (see Oni Squad suggestions), +5 for Adamantine Will, +20 for Fearless = 265pts

 

These suggestions streamline a few things - typical Praetor statline smooths things over, removal of Eternal Warrior reduces tanking ability, he still influences Oni Squads in the way to allow them to be Troops while making the combat a bit easier. He still has 4-5 S5 AP2 attacks generating additional S5 AP6 hits (the AP6 means it can much easier rip through any Cult Hordes he may be unlucky enough to face without otherwise unduly affecting his prowess elsewhere. The +1 Initiative Buff seemed a bit overmuch - he gained I6 through the Psychic Swordsman trait if he wanted.

 

We're still left rather over-expensive; propositions involve stripping both Fearless and dropping to Mastery 1 (220pts) to facilitate that, leaving him more on Abaddons (albeit slightly overcosted) level.

 

Oni Spectre Squads

- Personal Teleporters; Change Utterly. Remove the 5+ Invulnerable. Make the squad a Brotherhood of Psykers with the Forewarning Power only (no Primaris, obviously). This is a slight buff to a 4++ Save, but it still takes ~3 Warp Charge to guarantee it, or 1-2 Warp Charge with a Samsara, while meshing more with the fluff and the legion rules (Samsara, etc). In addition, once per battle, a unit entirely composed of models equipped with a Personal Teleporter may elect to use it if they do not move during the movement phase. In the subsequent Psychic Phase, the squad knows the Gate of Infinity power until the end of that phase, with the exception that the target point must be within 30" of the manifesting model, and a charge may be declared in the assault phase of the same turn (counting as making a disordered charge in this case). Note that this applies to Athrawes, but even through he's an IC, he can't use Gate of Infinity on a squad that isn't entirely comprised of Personal Teleporter equipped bro's. 

- Suggestion; Give them the +1 Initiative Charge special rule taken from the Athrawes. It's lost if they use Unwieldy, but takes effect to munch through I4 guys with their swords. Athrawes would be running with the squad anyway.

- Volkite Chargers should be 5pts, same as Terror Squads/Support Squads.

 

i seem to have a different profile to your suggestions sim, mate. I was using the ones here. This keeps them much of the same, but they need to expend Warp Charge to keep the resilience, while making them more capable of doing their job than simply taking more Veterans.

 

Volta Terminators

- The Pistols was to allow both weapons to fire, while giving them an additional attack in Close Combat (so they have 3-4 WS5 S5 Ap5 Deflagrate Attacks in CC). i quite like the idea of them being used "John Wick-like" in CC as Terminators, as that's part of their identity that Athrawes was keen to put across. I'm not sure about the intent behind the Culverin, either. Considering that they lack a way to deal with Dreadnoughts or Bulkheads, I'd consider allowing them to focus their attacks into that of Lascutter also (it's a single WS1, I1 attack, so not gamebreaking, but allows them to do something should they come up against a current meta unit). 

- Fortitude is pretty powerful. The Battle Standard for Chosen is 6". Perhaps either change it to that, or give them the Mental Fortitude Psychic Power as part of their Brotherhood of Psykers

- Sightless Crown; perhaps just make it the same as an Augury Scanner, or Djinn-sight (18" vs 24" anti infiltrator/-2 to Cover Saves). Not sure over the relevance of the reduced WS/BS 

 

That's as far as I've got.


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#254
simison

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Solely regarding the Oni, Grifft and I are okay with the Initiative buff and changing the Shunt move. Trading out the Shunt ability for a power, cuts down 15 points. (210ish). However, giving them the Sudden Strike power boosts them back to 225ish. 

 

We have already removed the built-in invul and turned it into a power. And the Onis haven't had Volkites for awhile. Just bolt pistols. 

 

Lastly, we need to shift Deep Strike from the unit to the teleporter itself since that's usually connected to equipment in the Imperium.

 

Does anyone want to contest this? Blunt, do you approve this?


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#255
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Hesh, in the context of the Volkite chargers being turned into pistols with the Volta, are you aware of a canon example? I was under the impression that weapon type was hardwired into the weapon itself. 


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#256
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Hesh, in the context of the Volkite chargers being turned into pistols with the Volta, are you aware of a canon example? I was under the impression that weapon type was hardwired into the weapon itself. 

I mean, the Suspensor Web allows you to turn Heavy Weapons into Assault Weapons at the cost of half the weapons range. So there is precedent on being able to change a weapons Type.


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#257
Hesh Kadesh

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Hesh, in the context of the Volkite chargers being turned into pistols with the Volta, are you aware of a canon example? I was under the impression that weapon type was hardwired into the weapon itself. 

Plenty of options exist to alter a weapons profile outside of the de facto rulebook meaning. Chain Fire, Suspensor Webs, Relentless, Slow And Purposeful, Terminator Armour, Fusillade Attack etc.

 

Cypher's (Zahariel's) old rules has him able to shoot his pistols twice, or shoot them while running, can use them in an assault (Attack Profile Bolt Pistol, additional with Plasma Pistol). The extent is essentially a souped up Moritat.

 

Trying to think how to word it; as a Pistol, it gets the ability to shoot twice (Gunslinger), which also provides 1 additional attack in close combat. However, there's no way to make the melee attacks use those profiles outside of making it a specific melee weapon or a specific special rule. Giving them Two Volkite Chargers, and granting them Fusillade Attack (from Myrmidon Secutor's; may fire two ranged weapons in the shooting phase, so long as they are both fired at the same target). The shooting is fine, and does exactly what it Athrawes had in mind with their concept and model. Having said that, these are "Volta Chargers", which are actually Rending versions of it. 

 

- Opt A; new melee weapon profile; Range - S5 AP5 Melee, Deflagrate Weapon, Two-handed; Issues there aren't any really, apart from balance. It's two-handed, because quite clearly, it requires two hands to use, but also prevents some RAW-fiend trying to claim an additional attack for a second melee weapon.

- Opt B; new special rule; short story shorter, you're going to be wasting words explaining the rules on how to use a ranged weapon in melee, rather than simply saying "when in melee, Volta Terminators may use their Volkite Chargers as melee weapons with the following profile (using the one above). I personally prefer this second option, as it feels cleaner.

 

The questions I have for balance is that the Volta are okay shooters, Volkite is not to be sneezed at; unless you're an Astartes with a 3+ Save and are still only wounded on a 3+.

 

Opinions;

- BS4 isn't enough. These guys are elite. It might be fairly tropey, but they exist for a reason; let's make them dope shots. BS5 is going to cut down some of the pain when your Elite Terminator unit you've have to model by hand "only" has a 1/7 chance of killing MEQ's with shooting, and likely does even worse in an assault as they have no Power Weapons. They are "Peerless Marksmen".

- Give them Rending as a special rule to make it more obvious, similar to Gal Vorbak (except not limiting it to melee or Ranged). It keeps the weapon profiles the same. It also aids with the "keeping things cleaner" rather than going to the extent of "same but different".

- Alternatively there is a potential to give them "Marked For Death", allowing the unit to target a particular threat with even better impunity. This could be 

- They could do with some Combat Potential, mainly to prevent them from being stalled out by Dreadnoughts, who they cannot even Glance outside of lucky rends, nor can they deal with in CC. While other options like that exist, and while it's noted that there are other CC options, giving them the ability to strike back could help somewhat; possibly the ability to purchase Iron Arm as a guaranteed power. This allows them essentially a floating power-fist, and they can't be challenge tanked by a random Apothecary, as the unit always has the option to Brotherhood of Psykers to gain S7 and Smash, but only one model in the unit can do so. Very few units exist who can't at least have some chance of harming an opponent; everyonee and their brother takes a Powerfist, or at least a meltabomb on unit sergeants if their points are tight. Units which are specifically meant to deal with hordes are usually vehicles, or have very niche uses otherwise; Special Weapon Support squads are a rarity outside of Plasma or Melta, for example - Rotor Cannon squads are the nearest example I can think of, and they at least have 30" and cost probably half as much. Giving them Iron Arm is still a cost; it's going to take Warp Charge, and timing on when to use it, but it's not going to turn the squad into an all-singing, all-dancing, takes-all-comers-regiment; they aren't going to be outfighting Justaerin equivalents or even Assault Oriented versions yet. On thoughts, I think that this is a slightly more elegant option than letting the unit be randomly equipped with "!Lascutters".

- BS2 overwatch may be something to represent their not-normal Astral vision too.

 

Regarding the Oni's Volkites, they have an option on the post I linked to, stating that they the option, but a missing cost, that's the only bit I meant about them smile.png


Edited by Hesh Kadesh, 08 May 2018 - 11:09 AM.

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#258
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First, let's get you updated, Hesh. These are the most current form the rules 

 

According to my own calculation, they clock in at 352 points without any changes. This is obviously extremely expensive, especially for just three models. 

 

  • Grifft has suggested that we bump up the squad from three to five to help spread the cost around, of which I am okay with. 
  • The unit does have BS5 as you thought it should have, Hesh. 
  • It has been suggested on Discord and here that the Volta lose Stubborn and Fortitude, and that they be replaced with a banner that gives them the Fearless bubble. 
  • It has also been suggested earlier on Discord and in agreement with Hesh that Rending should be removed from the chargers. I think it was suggested on Discord that Misfortune be made available to the unit instead of simply giving it to the unit.
  • Removing the Sightless Crown from the unit and allowing them to buy an augury scanner would also help cut down on costs.
  • I'm wary of giving them anything else on top of what they have already. It's a pricey unit. 
  • I also suggest that we change the 'Volta Chargers' to 'Akira-pattern Volkite Chargers'. It helps the name stand out more and lets us add a bit more fluff.

 

I think that's a summary of all of the suggested changes currently. Thoughts?


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#259
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I'm in agreement with removing rending from their chargers, but giving them the rending psychic power makes sense in my opinion



#260
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So, after going back and forth on it, Grifft and I propose these changes to make Raiden more reasonable:

 

  • Revert him to a normal Praetor line (as Hesh suggested)
  • Turn his pistol into a volkite serpenta with banestrike rounds (in mechanics, the fluff will change to reflect it)
  • He'll have the teleporter
  • His sword will also have Force
  • He can take an Oni unit as Retinue, but that's all Storm Scrier does now.
  • He'll take Artificer armour (as Hesh suggested)
  • He loses Adamantium Will, Fearless, Eternal Warrior, and a Mastery Level
  • His powers are rolled into one rule (except teleport shunt): Psychic Swordsman, Prescience, & Precognition

 

Does anyone have an issue with these changes? Blunt, do you approve?


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#261
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All sounds sensible to me

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#262
Hesh Kadesh

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Thanks for the heads up, sorry for being so out of it. Bookmarked.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with the changes suggested.


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#263
simison

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[I am happy that you agree with the changes, Hesh.]

 

Icarion Anasem

 

Comparison Base: Lorgar Transcendent (450 points)

 

Attributes

 

  • +1 WS, A, W: 20 points

 

Total: 20 points

 

Wargear

 

  • Illuminarum vs Thunderchild (Melee): 0 points

  • Archaeotech Pistol vs Thunderchild (Ranged): 45 points

  • Haywire Grenades vs. Frag Grenades: 0 points

  • Armour of the Word vs. Time-Lost Aegis: 0 points

 

Total: 45 points

 

Special Rules

  • Sire rules: 0 points

  • Living Icon vs Lightning Warfare: 5 points

  • Dark Fortune vs Sword Saint: (-10) points

  • Transfigured vs Psyker: 10 points

  • Artful Mind: 30 points 

 

Total: 35 points

 

Total cost: 100 points

 

Recommend overall cost: 550 points

 

Notes: 

 

  • I really don't like the Rewind ability. It's a huge bit of paperwork that is very easily confusing, even when I'm trying to carefully read it.

  • I don't like the fact that Icarion can use powers outside of his specialized three. I think his ability to choose any Primaris power should be neutralize. 

  • The real question is do we hold ourselves to the current canon limit of 500 points. That's Horus right there. We can end up taking a lot of heat for breaking this 'tradition'.


Edited by simison, 09 May 2018 - 08:45 PM.

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#264
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I think Icarion should simply be an extraordinary seer as far as powers go, and agree with the 500 limit. I hear the howls that begin with Mary.
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#265
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Legiones Astartes: the Harbingers
 
  Legiones Astartes blah blah
 
  The Ist Legion practiced a fluid style of warfare enabled by the “grace of Madrigal”. Precognition existed to some extent in every Legionary, and their most powerful seers wielded it as ably as any weapon. A victory by the Lightning Bearers might seem to unfold as if ordained, the enemy army collapsing under maddeningly coordinated attacks and manoeuvres which exploited weaknesses that were not even apparent to an ordinary man before the Astartes struck. For all that elegance, the ferocious power of the Legiones Astartes was still integral  to the Ist, and as the Harbingers they would become something darker and more brutal, yet still with far to fall from their former grace. 
 
Harbingers Unique Rite of War: Destined Assault
  A hallmark of the Harbingers’ way of warfare was the use of rapid assaults, planned using the precognitive talents of the Legions Celestial Orders and moving in a pattern their enemies could not comprehend. Before battle was even joined, skilled Battle-Scriers could pinpoint specific targets whose capture or elimination could alter the outcome of the wider conflict, in essence identifying the precise fulcrum around which a battle’s course would turn.
 
The Hand of Ikoru
  Named for the Sentinel who made the discovery and first bore one into battle, the prototype for these gauntlets was unearthed far beneath the planet’s North Pole. Reverse-engineered by Amankune, the Legion’s Master of the Forge, they allowed the wielder to unleash a devastating burst of electricity from his fingertips. Officers came to prize these devices both as a potent weapon and as a mark of prestige - the manifestation of the power from which the Legion had taken its name.

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#266
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Passed onto Grifft. That takes care of all of the missing holes in fluff for the rules chapter. All that's left to do is make sure the spacing looks good and to clean out any errors for the Harbingers.


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#267
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And get pics of my boys so Grifft can have fresh formatting nightmares ;)

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#268
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Oh dear

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#269
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One day. I might try and get a commission done in the next couple of months.


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#270
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Vortice Enforcer Squad

As Icarion's counterfeit empire grew, its rule was foisted on dozens of worlds whose people cleaved to the Emperor. The Vortice squads, clad in Arkonak Terminator plate, were Icarion's answer to the threat of defiance. Chosen for their unquestioning loyalty to their Primarch, they were tasked with rooting out dissenters wherever they found them and making a gory example of them, ensuring that the Stormlord’s dominion held. Several Ist Legion officers, put in charge of newly conquered worlds, found it expedient to take a squad of these fearsome warriors as personal retainers, and over time the units became commonplace among invasion forces as well.


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#271
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Found the Canonical Fulmination Fluff.

Some psykers regard lightning as the crackling essence of life, a vital force that the Warp-touched can draw upon to annihilate their foes. Fulmination is the power of arcing energy and electricity, and a psyker can wield it with but a flicker of thought. At its most basic, this discipline allows the user to hurl bolts of lightning across the battlefield, but this is only the beginning of what might be achieved. Fields of sparking light can be summoned by the Librarian to ward away damage or, with a blaze of light, he can teleport allies across a battlefield.

Electrosurge - Electrokinetic energy surges through the psyker's veins and arcs between his fingertips. With a gesture, it leaps forth to transform flesh into charred meat.

Electroshield - With a thought, the psyker summons a crackling shield of electrokinetic energy to ward away the bullets, blasts and blows of the enemy.

Electropulse - The psyker concentrates his power into a raging cyclone of electromagnetic energy that spirals outwards before detonating in a shock wave that causes all machine circuits to sputter and die.

Lightning Arc - Bolts of Warp lightning leap forth from the psyker's eyes and mouth, arcing violently among the enemy forces and leaving death in their wake.

Fists of Lightning - The psyker summons crackling coronae of living lightning that surround his fists. Whenever enemies are struck, incandescent arcs of lethal energy leap forth to course through their ranks.

Magnetokinesis - The psyker surrounds his allies in a bubble of magnetokinetic force before levitating them across the battlefield to a tactically superior position

Electrodisplacement - The psyker bends the power of the Warp and an eldritch bolt of lightning flashes across the battlefield. In an instant, the psyker has displaced himself, switching his location with that of his allies.

#272
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Ist Legion Praetor
Sentinel Goemon Yanoda
Fifth Maniple

Goemon Yanoda was recruited from Kihara, a void enclave in the Madrigal Sphere. Established in the system of the same name, early on in the development of the Sphere, Kihara grew into a powerful polity in its own right and a source of many aspirants for the Ist Legion. Its culture diverged little from Madrigal's, and thus Yanoda’s Mk II “Crusade” armour is a typical example of Lightning Bearers warplate. The only notable divergence from the norm is his power glaive, though this is itself a product of Akira. He also bears a tanto combat blade, along with a master-crafted bolt pistol.

Yanoda bore this panoply of war for over a century as Fifth Sentinel, commanding large forces of Lightning Bearers independently as well as fighting in the Vremalkyr Incursion and Koloss Syntheticide under Icarion. However, when the Stormlord started to plot his betrayal of the Emperor, Yanoda was singled out as too close to leading figures among the Scions Hospitalier and Iron Bears, and therefore all too likely to oppose his Primarch’s rebellion.

A war against the Khrave, conducted jointly with the Eagle Warriors served as the cover for Yanoda’s removal. At the height of the battle, a group of especially powerful Khrave split Yanoda from the bulk of his warriors, and the Sentinel was slain before the xenos were driven back. It has been conjectured that the killer was not in fact one of the future Harbingers, such was the esteem in which they held Yanoda, but in fact Huetic Xiutel of the Eagle Warriors, who had shared command with him. Decades later, the continuing influence of the malevolent XIIIth Legion on the Fifth Maniple would bear further infamy.

Edited by bluntblade, 30 March 2019 - 12:53 AM.

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#273
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While standard Lightning Bearers pauldrons were black, the evolution of the Harbingers and their eventual storm-grey primary color led to not a few Harbingers to retain their original white upon their pauldrons. Pictured here is Hikawa's pauldron, which was to be inherited by the sergeant who would inherit his squad after Hikawa's death. It was approximately re-painted four months after the Day of Revelation by Sergeant Kono. 


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The Second Son: Narrative of the BOTL Vth Legion Primarch

 

Brotherhood of the Lost has arrived on Patreon

 

gallery_92945_11930_24196.png

 


#274
simison

simison

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Potential titles for Raiden as the commander of the Red Oni

  • The Red Demon
  • Yokai Lord
  • The Red Lightning
  • The Great Oni
  • Onimusha 
  • Oni Daimyo
  • The Red Daimyo
  • The Crimson Lord
  • The Scarlet Onimusha

Project Leader of the Brotherhood of the Lost

 
The Second Son: Narrative of the BOTL Vth Legion Primarch

 

Brotherhood of the Lost has arrived on Patreon

 

gallery_92945_11930_24196.png

 


#275
bluntblade

bluntblade

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  • Faction: Inkspillers
Let's go with Yokai

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project





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