316 replies to this topic

[simison]

Alright, Legion relics range from 40-50 points and have been represented as pistols, bows, rifles, and various hand-held weapons. The emphasis is on hand-held. What kind of ranged weapon would you like to see?

[bluntblade]

I'm gonna do some digging

[ShadowSwordmaster]

My suggestion is a gunship that are equipped with arc weapons.

Edited by ShadowSwordmaster, 23 February 2018 - 06:27 PM.

[bluntblade]

Thing is, volkite was always the main flavour that Athrawes gave the Lightning Bearers, and I'm giving Telesto whacking big arc weapons, so don't want to overdo that.

Legion relics in the Black Books aren't under a specific title are they? They just come under Legion-specific wargear.

[simison]

Thing is, volkite was always the main flavour that Athrawes gave the Lightning Bearers, and I'm giving Telesto whacking big arc weapons, so don't want to overdo that.

Legion relics in the Black Books aren't under a specific title are they? They just come under Legion-specific wargear.

 

Book 4, Page 222-227

[bluntblade]

Cheers. Wondering about just going full Star Wars and having an Arc Gauntlet.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Cheers. Wondering about just going full Star Wars and having an Arc Gauntlet.

Didn't we already have this for the Warbringers? The Gauntlet of Zalmos the Thunderer?

[bluntblade]

I was not aware.

Maybe something more Warp-inflected or esoteric, then?

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Thing is, volkite was always the main flavour that Athrawes gave the Lightning Bearers, and I'm giving Telesto whacking big arc weapons, so don't want to overdo that.

Legion relics in the Black Books aren't under a specific title are they? They just come under Legion-specific wargear.

Fair enough.

[bluntblade]

Question is, what should we call the Fire Raptor variant?

[Beren]

Cloud Dancer/Stalker/Walker?

[bluntblade]

Something Falcon, I'm thinking

[Doctor Perils]

Cheers. Wondering about just going full Star Wars and having an Arc Gauntlet.

Didn't we already have this for the Warbringers? The Gauntlet of Zalmos the Thunderer?

That may have been discussed at one stage, but I can't remember where tbh. Also, I'm not sure if it still really fits with the Warbringers themes if I'm being completely honest - I'd be entirely fine giving the Harbingers such a relic

[bluntblade]

Cool

Now, seeing as the gunship will just be a Fire Raptor with a different armament, Fire Raptor Eradicator?

[Beren]

What exactly are it's capabilities and combat role?

[bluntblade]

Same as the Fire Raptor, but with a fancier armament

[Nomus Sardauk]

Actually now that I think about it, me and Hesh have each already brainstormed something for this a while ago, back in the MDRC thread:

Roc?

The Cinder Roc, to give it it's full title, is a Volkite variant of the Fire Raptor brainstormed by our brother and mutual BotL member Hesh Kadesh back towards the start of this thread, here's the post:

Spoiler

Legion Cinder Roc Interdictor; 280pts

[Fire Raptor Stats]

Wargear;
- One Hull Mounted Twin-linked Demi Culverin
- Two turret Mounted Twin-linked Volkite Culverin
- Four Wing Mounted Sunfury Heavy Missiles
- Machine Spirit
- Extra Armour

Special Rules
- Deep Strike
- Strafing Run
- Independent Turret Fire
- Interdiction; Whenever two or more weapons from the same Cinder Roc Interdictor hit the same unit, that unit must take a pinning test with a negative modifier to their Ld score equal to the number of models killed by additional wounds suffered from that gunships deflagrate rule

Options;
- A Cinder Roc may exchange its two Twin-linked Volkite Culverin for two Xiphon Rotary Missile Launchers (+30pts)
- A Cinder Roc may exchange its Twin-linked Demi Culverin for a Volkite Chierovile (+20pts)
- A Cinder Roc may exchange its four Sunfury Missiles for four Phosphex Bomb Clusters (+20pts)
[standard other options etc]

I also developed a Volkite variant called the Ash Phoenix (alongside a Volkite Pred dubbed the Cremator) much later into the thread which you can see here if you like:

Spoiler

<p>

Okay then, I've done some brainstorming and I think I've come up with some concepts you'll all like, though please bear in mind I have no idea what the points cost, rules or profile of these weapons are or should be, I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks:

ASH PHOENIX GUNSHIP

Weapon Loadout:

• 1x Nose-Mounted Twin-Linked Volkite Chieorovile. (I chose the Chieorovile as I estimated it to be around the right size to mounted on the Fire Raptor airframe)
• 2x Turret-Mounted Quad Volkite Culverins.
• 4x Wing-Mounted Hellstrike Missles (One use each).

Options:

• The Ash Phoenix's Quad Volkite Culverins can be swapped out for Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas for free.
• The Ash Phoenix can replace it's Hellstrike Missles for a Phosphex Bomb for -BLANK- points per Bomb.

DEIMOS PATTERN PREDATOR CREMATOR (Alternate titles: Conflagrator, Purgator, Purifer)

Weapon Loadout:

• 1x Turret-Mounted Twin-Linked Volkite Demi-Culverin.

Options:

• The Predator Cremator may take Volkite Culverin Sponsons for -BLANK- points.
• The Predator Cremator may take Multi-Melta Sponsons for -BLANK- points.

Special Rules:

• Fenrisian Funeral: Should the Predator Cremator suffer a Penetrating Hit, after damage results have been resolved roll a D6, on a 2-6 nothing happens. However, if a roll of 1 is made, then the Predator Cremator counts as suffering a Vehicle Explodes damage result, with another D6 inches to the blast range.

Edited by SanguiniusReborn, 23 February 2018 - 09:02 PM.

[bluntblade]

YES. HAVING THAT.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Oh yeah, and there's that Volkite Predator Tank I did too, forgot about that.

[bluntblade]

Legion Rite of War: The Madrigalan Toaster

[Hesh Kadesh]

Spoiler

Actually now that I think about it, me and Hesh have each already brainstormed something for this a while ago, back in the MDRC thread:

Roc?

The Cinder Roc, to give it it's full title, is a Volkite variant of the Fire Raptor brainstormed by our brother and mutual BotL member Hesh Kadesh back towards the start of this thread, here's the post:

Spoiler

Legion Cinder Roc Interdictor; 280pts

[Fire Raptor Stats]

Wargear;
- One Hull Mounted Twin-linked Demi Culverin
- Two turret Mounted Twin-linked Volkite Culverin
- Four Wing Mounted Sunfury Heavy Missiles
- Machine Spirit
- Extra Armour

Special Rules
- Deep Strike
- Strafing Run
- Independent Turret Fire
- Interdiction; Whenever two or more weapons from the same Cinder Roc Interdictor hit the same unit, that unit must take a pinning test with a negative modifier to their Ld score equal to the number of models killed by additional wounds suffered from that gunships deflagrate rule

Options;
- A Cinder Roc may exchange its two Twin-linked Volkite Culverin for two Xiphon Rotary Missile Launchers (+30pts)
- A Cinder Roc may exchange its Twin-linked Demi Culverin for a Volkite Chierovile (+20pts)
- A Cinder Roc may exchange its four Sunfury Missiles for four Phosphex Bomb Clusters (+20pts)
[standard other options etc]

I also developed a Volkite variant called the Ash Phoenix (alongside a Volkite Pred dubbed the Cremator) much later into the thread which you can see here if you like:

Spoiler

<p>

Okay then, I've done some brainstorming and I think I've come up with some concepts you'll all like, though please bear in mind I have no idea what the points cost, rules or profile of these weapons are or should be, I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks:

ASH PHOENIX GUNSHIP

Weapon Loadout:

• 1x Nose-Mounted Twin-Linked Volkite Chieorovile. (I chose the Chieorovile as I estimated it to be around the right size to mounted on the Fire Raptor airframe)
• 2x Turret-Mounted Quad Volkite Culverins.
• 4x Wing-Mounted Hellstrike Missles (One use each).

Options:

• The Ash Phoenix's Quad Volkite Culverins can be swapped out for Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas for free.
• The Ash Phoenix can replace it's Hellstrike Missles for a Phosphex Bomb for -BLANK- points per Bomb.

DEIMOS PATTERN PREDATOR CREMATOR (Alternate titles: Conflagrator, Purgator, Purifer)

Weapon Loadout:

• 1x Turret-Mounted Twin-Linked Volkite Demi-Culverin.

Options:

• The Predator Cremator may take Volkite Culverin Sponsons for -BLANK- points.
• The Predator Cremator may take Multi-Melta Sponsons for -BLANK- points.

Special Rules:

• Fenrisian Funeral: Should the Predator Cremator suffer a Penetrating Hit, after damage results have been resolved roll a D6, on a 2-6 nothing happens. However, if a roll of 1 is made, then the Predator Cremator counts as suffering a Vehicle Explodes damage result, with another D6 inches to the blast range.

Well I'll be, I remember that. I stayed away from the C'vile due to the sensibility of its line effect being rather annoying to resolve as a flyer. Coukd possibly see it being mounted in a Thunderhawk Variant though. Also rule gore on that Incendiary Interdiction. Urgh. I could have worded that better.

Edited by Hesh Kadesh, 24 February 2018 - 12:43 AM.

[bluntblade]

So what changes should be made to the Ash Phoenix?

[simison]

Ash Phoenix

 

Comparison Base: Fire Raptor Gunship (200 points)

 

Attributes

 

• N/A

 

Total: 0 points

 

Wargear

 

• 1x Nose-Mounted Twin-Linked Volkite Chieorovile.: ? points
• 2x Turret-Mounted Quad Volkite Culverins: ? points

 

Total: ? points

 

Special Rules

• N/A

 

Total: ? points

 

Total cost: ? points

 

Recommend overall cost: ? points

 

Notes: 

 

• So, I'm already stuck. What's a Volkite Chieorovile? And where can I find its rules?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Missed up the C'vile with the Carronade. The C'vile is a Knight-Styrix weapon; 45", Heavy 5 Deflagrate, S8, AP3. The Demi-Culverin is a Solar-Auxilia Leman Russ turret; 45", S7, AP5 Heavy 5 Deflagrate. The rules for both are in the Crusade Imperialis Army List.

 

Given that the Bolt Cannon is a Heavy 7 S6 AP3, the AP3 niche is already filled. The C'vile is a straight upgrade; but getting the balancing right so that it's not overcosted when it does the same job, but better (no FNP/Instagib 2 wound MEQ's) is going to be a bit of an issue. From a meta-perspective of in an army, is someone going to use the Fire Raptor over the Ash Phoenix?

 

The Demi-Culverin however means that the Ash Phoenix is more akin to a specialised Volkite user, bringing the most amount of Volkite, dedicated to one particular task. It is still excellent at gibbing through Army units with 5 Heavy 7 Ap5 shots; Twin-linked like the Leman Russ Incinerator. It makes it better at it's own niche. I think Quad Culverin's are a bit too much. 

 

In comparison; 210pts for the Fire Raptor, vs a proposed Ash Phoenix

- 7 Twin Linked S6 AP3 Shots, 4 Twin-linked S7 AP4 Shots

- 5 Twin Linked S8 AP3 Shots with Deflagrate, 8 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

- 5 Twin Linked S7 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate, 8 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

 

If we make it with Quad Culverin's

- 7 Twin Linked S6 AP3 Shots, 4 Twin-linked S7 AP4 Shots

- 5 Twin Linked S8 AP3 Shots with Deflagrate, 16 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

- 5 Twin Linked S7 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate, 16 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

 

I honestly think the Twin-Linked C'vile shouldn't be a thing; compare the size of a C'vile next to the Bolt Cannon on a Knight-chassis here. The Cerastus-Castigator has the same Bolt Cannon as the Fire Raptor. The Demi Culverin meanwhile, is actually a Twin-linked Weapon. self contained in itself; using this as a Twin-linked Weapon is more fitting. Also cheaper to make should some one fancy cutting up a Leman Russ Incinerator (it's still a Leman Russ, and it's easier to use the Leman Russ to make another vehicle - admittedly, a Knight Styrix without the C'vile can become a Mageara. 

 

Personally, I feel that the Demi-Culverin, rather than C'vile, and that the Twin-linked Culverins, rather than Quad Culverin's should be taken. Mainly again, for balance purposes, but also for ease of conversion; the housing for the Autocannon carries the Culverin well enough.

[Grifftofer]

Missed up the C'vile with the Carronade. The C'vile is a Knight-Styrix weapon; 45", Heavy 5 Deflagrate, S8, AP3. The Demi-Culverin is a Solar-Auxilia Leman Russ turret; 45", S7, AP5 Heavy 5 Deflagrate. The rules for both are in the Crusade Imperialis Army List.

Given that the Bolt Cannon is a Heavy 7 S6 AP3, the AP3 niche is already filled. The C'vile is a straight upgrade; but getting the balancing right so that it's not overcosted when it does the same job, but better (no FNP/Instagib 2 wound MEQ's) is going to be a bit of an issue. From a meta-perspective of in an army, is someone going to use the Fire Raptor over the Ash Phoenix?

The Demi-Culverin however means that the Ash Phoenix is more akin to a specialised Volkite user, bringing the most amount of Volkite, dedicated to one particular task. It is still excellent at gibbing through Army units with 5 Heavy 7 Ap5 shots; Twin-linked like the Leman Russ Incinerator. It makes it better at it's own niche. I think Quad Culverin's are a bit too much.

In comparison; 210pts for the Fire Raptor, vs a proposed Ash Phoenix
- 7 Twin Linked S6 AP3 Shots, 4 Twin-linked S7 AP4 Shots
- 5 Twin Linked S8 AP3 Shots with Deflagrate, 8 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.
- 5 Twin Linked S7 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate, 8 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

If we make it with Quad Culverin's
- 7 Twin Linked S6 AP3 Shots, 4 Twin-linked S7 AP4 Shots
- 5 Twin Linked S8 AP3 Shots with Deflagrate, 16 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.
- 5 Twin Linked S7 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate, 16 Twin-linked 6 AP5 Shots with Deflagrate.

I honestly think the Twin-Linked C'vile shouldn't be a thing; compare the size of a C'vile next to the Bolt Cannon on a Knight-chassis here. The Cerastus-Castigator has the same Bolt Cannon as the Fire Raptor. The Demi Culverin meanwhile, is actually a Twin-linked Weapon. self contained in itself; using this as a Twin-linked Weapon is more fitting. Also cheaper to make should some one fancy cutting up a Leman Russ Incinerator (it's still a Leman Russ, and it's easier to use the Leman Russ to make another vehicle - admittedly, a Knight Styrix without the C'vile can become a Mageara.

Personally, I feel that the Demi-Culverin, rather than C'vile, and that the Twin-linked Culverins, rather than Quad Culverin's should be taken. Mainly again, for balance purposes, but also for ease of conversion; the housing for the Autocannon carries the Culverin well enough.

I basically agree with all of this 😁 Nice to see you posting again Hesh.