Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

A Broken Throne - Legio II - The Lightning Bearers


  • Please log in to reply
315 replies to this topic

#126
simison

simison

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 7,787 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Faction: Halcyon Wardens, Blood Angels

Can lascannons work as independent turrets? I'd be concerned that the necessary power requirements and additional tech sophistication might hamper their ability to function in that role.


Project Leader of the Brotherhood of the Lost

 
The Second Son: Narrative of the BOTL Vth Legion Primarch

 

Brotherhood of the Lost has arrived on Patreon

 

gallery_92945_11930_24196.png

 


#127
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
Not sure. Would they be much more demanding than Culverins?

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#128
Grifftofer

Grifftofer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,067 posts
  • Location:Eskilstuna, Sweden

Blunt. We spent half a dozen posts going over the fact that the lascannons wouldn't be a turret upgrade, but a wing mount upgrade (replacing the missiles). :P



#129
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
I thought Hesh shot that down?

Sorry Grifft. So we start with tempest rockets like the base Fire Raptor, with lascannons as an option. O-K.

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#130
Nomus Sardauk

Nomus Sardauk

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,246 posts
  • Location:The Liber Cluster-Albion System
  • Faction: The Steel Legion
Sorry Griff it was my suggestion, I didn't realise you two had discussed it previously, I just thought it'd look better and be easier to aim the lascannons if they were in the turrets rather than wing mounted.

tn_gallery_4536_13905_53919.pngFbm7BxJ.jpg6ACBl6j.jpg
Formerly SanguiniusReborn, proud Creator of the Scarlet Sentinels, my 18th Century British Redcoat Chapter and the Steel Legion, my Cyberpunk-inspired Lost Legion!


#131
Hesh Kadesh

Hesh Kadesh

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,860 posts

I thought Hesh shot that down?

Sorry Grifft. So we start with tempest rockets like the base Fire Raptor, with lascannons as an option. O-K.

No? I made mention that if we were to include it, gating it behind a £14 Forgeworld purchase that still needs additional work, or hoping that FW would be kind enough to provide Lascannons with the Fire Raptor kit, or purchasing a seperate Storm Eagle kit for ever increasing costs for the sake of the lone anti-tank option seemed poor; especially given that all the others also had options to take the Hellstrike Missiles. It would therefore be an option to give it both options to replace the Tempest Missiles, either 4* Hellstrike, or 2* TL Lascannons. The door guns are still TL Volkite Culverin, and the Nose-gun is a TL Volkite Demi-Culverin.


Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#132
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
Ah. Right then, will commence rectifying later

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#133
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
Ash Phoenix Gunship
Alone among the Legions, the Ist continued to possess volkite weaponry in large numbers into the dark years of the Insurrection, thanks to the industrious forges of Akira and its satellites. The skyborne civilisation of Madrigal led them to favour gunships in their armoury both for the insertion of troops and as highly mobile gun-platforms, and as such these too were equipped with esoteric weapons. It is said that Icarion himself helped to design the Ash Phoenix, derived from the more common Fire Raptor in the Lightning Bearers’ early campaigns against daemonic infestations. Armed with a twin-linked Volkite Demi-Culverin, it proved lethal against infantry of all kinds.

BS4 Front12 Side12 Rear12 HP4

Wargear
1x Nose-Mounted Twin-Linked Volkite Demi-Culverin
2x Turret-Mounted Twin-Linked Volkite Culverins
4x Wing-Mounted Tempest Rockets

Special Rules
Deep Strike
Independent Turret Fire
Strafing Run

Options
The Ash Phoenix can replace its Hellstrike Missiles for:
4x Hellstrike Missiles ___ points
2x Twin-linked Lascannons ___ points

Edited by bluntblade, 27 February 2018 - 05:30 PM.

  • Hesh Kadesh likes this

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#134
Hesh Kadesh

Hesh Kadesh

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,860 posts
Quad Volkite Culverin? You want this thing putting out 16 BS5 Twin linked S6 Deflagrate Shots?

C'mon, man.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#135
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
One day I'll get my head around this rules thing

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#136
simison

simison

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 7,787 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Faction: Halcyon Wardens, Blood Angels

Have the volkites been settled?


Project Leader of the Brotherhood of the Lost

 
The Second Son: Narrative of the BOTL Vth Legion Primarch

 

Brotherhood of the Lost has arrived on Patreon

 

gallery_92945_11930_24196.png

 


#137
Grifftofer

Grifftofer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,067 posts
  • Location:Eskilstuna, Sweden

The Turrets are Twin-linked Volkite Culverins, but yes. Other than that minor issue it looks good to me. Would personally price it at about 190pts (so slightly cheaper than the regular fire raptor) with the Hellstrikes being a 20pts upgrade and the Lascannons being 40pts as per the Storm Eagle.


  • Hesh Kadesh likes this

#138
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
(screams and scrambles for the edit button)

Done.
  • Hesh Kadesh likes this

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#139
simison

simison

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 7,787 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Faction: Halcyon Wardens, Blood Angels

The Turrets are Twin-linked Volkite Culverins, but yes. Other than that minor issue it looks good to me. Would personally price it at about 190pts (so slightly cheaper than the regular fire raptor) with the Hellstrikes being a 20pts upgrade and the Lascannons being 40pts as per the Storm Eagle.

 

Culverin: R-45'' S-6 AP-5 Heavy-4, Deflagrate vs. Quad H. Bolter: R-36'' S-5 AP-4 Heavy-6

 

So, two less shots, but the Deflagrate could cause an additional 4 auto-hits. I'm guessing that it typically averages 1 or 2 additional hits, make them essentially equal on volume of fire. 

 

Which means the Culverin comes with better range and better strength, while only sacrificing a point in AP. The latter affecting only scout armour and non-Legionaries. Overall, it looks like at least a 5 point upgrade, if not 10 for the turrets. As for the main weapon...

 

Demi-Culverin: R-45'' S-7 AP-5 Heavy-5, Deflagrate, T-L vs. Avenger: R-36'' S-6 AP-3 Heavy-7

 

Here, the AP makes a much greater difference as the Avenger can mulch power armour, while the Demi-Culverin's greater strength allows it to hunt light vehicles and potentially monstrous creatures. Between the twin-link and the Deflagrate, the Demi-Culverin is undoubtedly going to land more shots. Again, I'd suggest an additional 10 points for the range and the other advantages.

 

So, I think the Ash Phoenix should be priced at 220 points, 210 at bare minimum. 


Project Leader of the Brotherhood of the Lost

 
The Second Son: Narrative of the BOTL Vth Legion Primarch

 

Brotherhood of the Lost has arrived on Patreon

 

gallery_92945_11930_24196.png

 


#140
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
If it can do Monstrous Creatures that makes the daemon thing even fluffier :D

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#141
Grifftofer

Grifftofer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,067 posts
  • Location:Eskilstuna, Sweden

 

The Turrets are Twin-linked Volkite Culverins, but yes. Other than that minor issue it looks good to me. Would personally price it at about 190pts (so slightly cheaper than the regular fire raptor) with the Hellstrikes being a 20pts upgrade and the Lascannons being 40pts as per the Storm Eagle.

 

Culverin: R-45'' S-6 AP-5 Heavy-4, Deflagrate vs. Quad H. Bolter: R-36'' S-5 AP-4 Heavy-6

 

So, two less shots, but the Deflagrate could cause an additional 4 auto-hits. I'm guessing that it typically averages 1 or 2 additional hits, make them essentially equal on volume of fire. 

 

Which means the Culverin comes with better range and better strength, while only sacrificing a point in AP. The latter affecting only scout armour and non-Legionaries. Overall, it looks like at least a 5 point upgrade, if not 10 for the turrets. As for the main weapon...

 

Demi-Culverin: R-45'' S-7 AP-5 Heavy-5, Deflagrate, T-L vs. Avenger: R-36'' S-6 AP-3 Heavy-7

 

Here, the AP makes a much greater difference as the Avenger can mulch power armour, while the Demi-Culverin's greater strength allows it to hunt light vehicles and potentially monstrous creatures. Between the twin-link and the Deflagrate, the Demi-Culverin is undoubtedly going to land more shots. Again, I'd suggest an additional 10 points for the range and the other advantages.

 

So, I think the Ash Phoenix should be priced at 220 points, 210 at bare minimum.

 

For the Turrets my methodology was this:

 

Heavy Bolter = 10pts (Sponson Weapons)

Volkite Culverin = Heavy Bolter +5 (Heavy Support Squad)

 

So 2 heavy bolters is 20pts and a culverin is 15, with the Twin-Linked being a non-issue due to both having it. That makes a total of a 10pts reduction.

 

For the hull weapon I looked at the two options and thought that they looked remarkably similar to the turrets, just with boosted S, AP & shots. The Volkite option has greater range, strength and deflagrate, whereas the bolt option has the advantage of AP and rate of fire. Based on that I was tempted to make that a reduced cost option too, but I thought about it and the ability to hurt AV13 vehicles felt like something that should be taken into account, so I thought that a 0pt change would be reasonable.

 

The thing that for me is the clincher is that AP4/3 is particularly important in making the Fire Raptor versatile in which targets it goes after. The AP3 means it can reliably take on Marines, the AP4 is also good for taking on Solar Auxilia, Militia Grenadiers, Thallax/Ursarax and Carapace-armoured Adsecularis. These are all targets that Volkite (with its AP5) can only combat via rate of fire, because the 50% save rate cuts down their damage substantially, even with the potential for extra hits (which still have to wound and then get saves taken against). The increased Strength of the Volkite weapons is a factor, but mostly against vehicles and I think that any Fire Raptor that wants to take on vehicles would be investing in the autocannon array.



#142
Hesh Kadesh

Hesh Kadesh

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,860 posts
Simultaneously, 2+ Saves are unaffected by either (Sans Lascannon Wing Mounts), so the Weapons profile of the same are equal.

I like the smaller dip, I wouldn't see it being a problem at the same cost as the base Fire Raptor either.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#143
simison

simison

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 7,787 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Faction: Halcyon Wardens, Blood Angels

Fair points. I agree to the 190 point-price tag.


Project Leader of the Brotherhood of the Lost

 
The Second Son: Narrative of the BOTL Vth Legion Primarch

 

Brotherhood of the Lost has arrived on Patreon

 

gallery_92945_11930_24196.png

 


#144
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
And lo, the vehicle slot was filled.

Relic next?

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#145
Grifftofer

Grifftofer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,067 posts
  • Location:Eskilstuna, Sweden

What did you want as your relic? Some kind of ranged weapon if I remember correctly? But any more thoughts about what kind/form you want it to be?



#146
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
I need suggestions, tbh.

Maybe an archeotech gun?

Edited by bluntblade, 28 February 2018 - 05:33 PM.

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#147
Grifftofer

Grifftofer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,067 posts
  • Location:Eskilstuna, Sweden

Maybe a psychic hood that lets the user manifest a ranged weapon by sacrificing warp charges?



#148
Beren

Beren

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
A type of device that manifests a psychic familiar?

Edited by Beren, 28 February 2018 - 06:11 PM.


#149
bluntblade

bluntblade

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,745 posts
  • Location:Herts
  • Faction: Inkspillers
Just remembered the whole thunder gauntlet thing. Shall we try that?

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

Caretaker of the Lightning Bearers and member of the Broken Throne alt-Heresy project


#150
Hesh Kadesh

Hesh Kadesh

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,860 posts
Mastercrafted Thunder Hammer with Haywire, minus specilaist?

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users