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A Broken Throne - Legio II - The Lightning Bearers


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#176
bluntblade

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I'm thinking a bit more range if that's ok.

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#177
helterskelter

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I'm thinking a bit more range if that's ok.


The T'au have breachers that have 3 stat lines for their guns depending on range, so you could have a 5, 10, and 15 inch decreasing statline and a 6 to hit arcs generating an autohit?
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#178
bluntblade

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I like that

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#179
Grifftofer

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If you go with the arc rule i would avoid having deflagrate too because that could be a bit too much even for a relic.

#180
bluntblade

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I was absolutely viewing it as an either/or choice

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#181
Hesh Kadesh

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I'll check and see if it's worth adding a new thread for the Powers discussion, if not I'll necro an old thread instead. You're right about there being perhaps more tools within out universe than in the regular one for dealing with Psykers. Maybe I'm being too reserved in my thinking with regards to this, even so I'd like to have the discussion and let you guys convince me of the fact ;)

On to your possible re-write: I like the concept and the way you linked it to an extant blessing is really cool. I agree that it is a bit too wordy though. Perhaps instead of adding it to a blessing that he casts it could instead be gained by him 'sacrificing' 1 of his Warp Charges each Psychic phase? I call it a sacrifice, but it wouldn't be an option rather he would 'only' generate 3 Warp Charges per phase while Rewind is active. Then when the effect is unraveled the power that he had held by that ability is returned (ie he can generate 4 from then onward).


Time-Lost Aegis; Grants an X+ Armour Save and a 3+ Invulnerable Save. In addition, Grants the Rewind Power;

While Rewind is in effect Icarion generates one fewer Warp Charge than normal in each Psychic Phase and in a challenge Icarion and his opponent may not allocate excess wounds to other enemy models, outside forces allocate cannot their attacks to either combatant and no model may make a Glorious Intervention with either combatant.


In addition, at the end of any Initiative Step in which Icarion has suffered a wound, even if Icarion has been killed, the controlling player may discharge Rewind: Any wounds suffered by either challenger during that round of combat are instantly regained, and both characters must resolve their attacks again; the character with the highest Initiative resolves their attacks first as if they were fighting at a higher Initiative step. After both characters have made their attacks again, the rest of the combat proceeds.


Discharging Rewind ends all of the effects listed above and it cannot be reactivated again once discharged.


This works. Only issue I've spotted is a particular lack of trigger. Is it always in effect from the start of play? Or is it a voluntary thing that the player chooses when rolling to generate warp charge?

The only reason I added it as an addon to a blessing was because of the wording being very similar to Magnus' Mind Wrath, so its a rule people will be at least familiar with implementing. That said, i'm not too fussed about if that is kept or not, and we go with a clarified wording.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#182
Hesh Kadesh

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Re relic: Torrent 6"? It allows it to go round corners in ZM, and ignore cover.

AP5 Rending, Deflagrate, Torrent 6", or an AP3 Rending, Deflafrate Flamer profile?

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#183
bluntblade

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Err... Grifft?

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#184
Grifftofer

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I'd probably go for AP5, but make the Strength around 6/7, that makes it slightly dangerous to light vehicles too. The template will help make up for the normal volume of shots that volkite style weapons tend to go for and the mini-torrent will make it effective at slightly more than point blank range. Combined with the fact that it will be a Pistol and possibly also a Specialist Weapon it will have a nice amount of utility and killing potential without making power armour redundant.



#185
simison

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I'm confused. Blunt, did you want the template range or the Tau different ranges?


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#186
bluntblade

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The different ranges

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#187
simison

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Next question: do you want the relic to become more dangerous at close ranges or at longer ranges?


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#188
bluntblade

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More dangerous close-up

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#189
simison

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More dangerous close-up

 

Right, so we're going to start with your standard pulse blaster. (Does anyone know how much they cost?) Then, we're going to add Deflagrate and enough S & AP to warrant 40 points. Or, were there any special rules you wanted to add?


Edited by simison, 09 March 2018 - 11:50 PM.

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#190
bluntblade

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Was wondering we could make it debilitating to those it hits, for a turn.

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#191
Hesh Kadesh

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Weapon Ranges on Volkite is 3" less than standard weapons on their range. Pulse Blasters are 5/10/15" profiles and you choose which you can use when you fire. 3/9/15 matches that profiles.

D6 Shots, Deflagrate, Rending, with a S6 AP1/S5 AP3/S4 AP5 profiles. Overwatch in general uses the actual range used. If you hit a unit with only 1 model on the 9" line on OW, and use the 9" profle, only kill one model max.

Perhaps just have it counted a Lightning Claw in CC to save any wording issues and introducing new rules where it's both a pistol with multiple shots thst is also a specialist weapon.

Edit; debilitating can come from Pinning, Blind, Concussive, make disordered charge etc.

Edited by Hesh Kadesh, 10 March 2018 - 01:24 AM.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#192
bluntblade

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Sounds good. Pinning would be my preference

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#193
simison

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Weapon Ranges on Volkite is 3" less than standard weapons on their range. Pulse Blasters are 5/10/15" profiles and you choose which you can use when you fire. 3/9/15 matches that profiles.
 

 

If it's less than 3'', shouldn't it be 2/7/12?


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#194
Hesh Kadesh

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No, because that's Tau ranges, which are typically wierd and alieny by design, to show that they're atypical (ie their base weapon being the only 30" weapon in the game) Most other ranges within the game are 6-12-18 (outside of Nova powers, which are already wierd), which is what I based it off.

3/9/15 is much easier for someone to recognise streamlining play further rather than having to remember or reference ranges which literally do not come up anywhere else in the game.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#195
simison

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Very well.

 

And, as I feared, the pulse blaster, rifle, and the carbine have never been given points in of themselves in 7th edition. For all I know, they cost a single point, like a bolt pistol for a Sanguinary Priest. 

 

Also, I might very well be mixing things up, but aren't randomized number of shots an 8th edition trick as opposed to 7th? 

 

For the rest, Deflagrate is calculated at 10, while Rending is 15 points. So, that's a potential 25 points right there, leaving a theoretical minimum of 15 points. That's not pricing the weapon's increasing lethality in close range. (Which is going to involve a lot of guesswork, on my side.)


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#196
Grifftofer

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Not sure why 3/9/15 is your suggested range bands Hesh. To me Volkite weapons seem to have range bands that are measured in 5" increments rather than 6" ones for most other weapons. So I would suggest using 5/10/15 as the relic's base.

 

For the shots I'd suggest using the average (or in this case 3.5) to determine things. Also I'd use the middle range stats as the base for working out the points. So I'd go off of a base of 20 points (2 volkite chargers: correct range, Strength and Deflagrate) and then factor in the AP increase and the Rending, plus any close combat stats the weapon might have. I'd guess it'd be worth about 55-60 points all told though.


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#197
Hesh Kadesh

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That's fair, i'm not particularly swayed one way or the other regarsing Ranges, so if 2 people think 5/10/15 is good enough, that's fine by me.

I think 55pts is decent enough Price. Keeps it exclusive without being autotake.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#198
simison

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Not sure why 3/9/15 is your suggested range bands Hesh. To me Volkite weapons seem to have range bands that are measured in 5" increments rather than 6" ones for most other weapons. So I would suggest using 5/10/15 as the relic's base.

 

For the shots I'd suggest using the average (or in this case 3.5) to determine things. Also I'd use the middle range stats as the base for working out the points. So I'd go off of a base of 20 points (2 volkite chargers: correct range, Strength and Deflagrate) and then factor in the AP increase and the Rending, plus any close combat stats the weapon might have. I'd guess it'd be worth about 55-60 points all told though.

 

45 points with the base and the two special rules. Taking Hesh's suggested statline (S6 AP1/S5 AP3/S4 AP5), the base is two AP better for a 10 point price increase to 55 points. Yet, there's a 5 point decrease for this 'base' profile, which I would knock off 5 points for. 

 

So, yeah, I have a tentative 50 point price tag. Is that satisfactory, everyone?


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Brotherhood of the Lost has arrived on Patreon

 

gallery_92945_11930_24196.png

 


#199
helterskelter

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It's about right for a relic I'd say
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#200
Hesh Kadesh

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Not sure why 3/9/15 is your suggested range bands Hesh. To me Volkite weapons seem to have range bands that are measured in 5" increments rather than 6" ones for most other weapons. So I would suggest using 5/10/15 as the relic's base.

 

For the shots I'd suggest using the average (or in this case 3.5) to determine things. Also I'd use the middle range stats as the base for working out the points. So I'd go off of a base of 20 points (2 volkite chargers: correct range, Strength and Deflagrate) and then factor in the AP increase and the Rending, plus any close combat stats the weapon might have. I'd guess it'd be worth about 55-60 points all told though.

 

45 points with the base and the two special rules. Taking Hesh's suggested statline (S6 AP1/S5 AP3/S4 AP5), the base is two AP better for a 10 point price increase to 55 points. Yet, there's a 5 point decrease for this 'base' profile, which I would knock off 5 points for. 

 

So, yeah, I have a tentative 50 point price tag. Is that satisfactory, everyone?

 

Just to clarify; if you want to include the LClaw bit so that it gives Specialist boost - the original interpretation was that it was a Multi-shot pistol that provided Specialist Weapons with an attack boost; which blends 3 rules which were all pretty much intentionally seperate from one another. Making it a Lightning Claw that provided a shooting attack made it much less rules-gore. I chose Lightning Claw for theme, but it d

 

Do we have a name? Also, sorry about formatting, I hate with a passion the B&C Table Templates, so am not going to remotely consider it. 

 

Option 1;

Harbingers Relic (50pts); This is a Lightning Claw, which also allows the wielder to blast a coruscating arc of actinic energy, capable of disintegrating those nearby into little more than storm-blown dust. When used as a ranged weapon, it has a different profile depending on how far the target unit is from the firer. If it is not clear which of the profiles to use, the controlling player chooses. 

 

Range; Up to 5" / Str 6 / AP 1 / Type; Assault D6

Range; Up to 10" / Str 5 / AP 3 / Type; Assault D6

Range; Up to 15" / Str 4 / AP 5 / Type; Assault D6 

 

Option 2;(removed Lightning Claw

Harbingers Relic (50pts); This [relic] allows the wielder to blast a coruscating arc of actinic energy, capable of disintegrating those nearby into little more than storm-blown dust. When used as a ranged weapon, it has a different profile depending on how far the target unit is from the firer. If it is not clear which of the profiles to use, the controlling player chooses. 

 

Range; Up to 5" / Str 6 / AP 1 / Type; Assault D6

Range; Up to 10" / Str 5 / AP 3 / Type; Assault D6

Range; Up to 15" / Str 4 / AP 5 / Type; Assault D6 

 

Ranged Option 3; (3a; include Lightning Claw, 3b; Don't include Lightning Claw)

Harbingers Relic (50pts); This [relic] allows the wielder to blast a coruscating arc of actinic energy, capable of disintegrating those nearby into little more than storm-blown dust. When used as a ranged weapon, it has a different profile depending on how far the target unit is from the firer. If it is not clear which of the profiles to use, the controlling player chooses. 

 

Range; Up to 5" / Str 6 / AP 1 / Type; Assault D6

Range; 5-10" / Str 5 / AP 3 / Type; Assault D6

Range; 10-15" / Str 4 / AP 5 / Type; Assault D6 

 

The difference between the Up to 5"/Up to 10"/Up to 15" vs Up to 5"/5-10/10-15" means that the first options (1 and 2, vs 3a/3b) do not have a minimum range which doesn't trigger "Out of Range" clause for wound allocation. The wound allocation cannot be done against models out of range; it's niche, but you couldn't use a 10"-15" weapon against a unit which may have models only 7" away. The question remains as to "why would you?" but I've never liked that part of the Pulse Blaster.

 

It also removes the issue of it being non-blast weapons with minimum ranges.


Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.





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