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Get Ready For Chapter Approved


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#51
Trevak Dal

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Hurricane combimeltas...

*Grunts*
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#52
twopounder

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If this can't be used in regular play, then its toilet paper. If we're just making up rules, why waste money. Just put whatever you want on your models and call it a day.


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#53
Montford981

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I wonder of the Ordo Hereticus Inquisition can fit a psyocculum to the targeting array of  Land Raider ;-)


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#54
Gentlemanloser

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Why not just put a LR in a LR?

Yo Dawg...
QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#55
Bryan Blaire

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If this can't be used in regular play, then its toilet paper. If we're just making up rules, why waste money. Just put whatever you want on your models and call it a day.

You do realize that you actually can make up anything you want to play with friends, as long as said friends accept it, right? Seriously, there are people on the planet that actually think that is enjoyable and don't think being slavishly devoted to what GW comes up with is necessarily the end-all, be-all of fun. I realize that could be shocking to folks, but the world won't split open and Hell-beasties won't ride forth just because friends use made up stuff for their regular playing. That doesn't mean that GW's efforts in this are garbage or the efforts that some friends make is some kind of tripe (it actually could be better than what GW puts out). Not everyone likes playing exactly the same way, and some people don't actually like matched play.

Also, don't be so narrow-minded. They could be testing the waters in Open Play format, and if people are enjoying it and it doesn't appear to be ripping games a festering new :cuss, then it is possible that a later Chapter Approved could see a more tightened up set of VDR make its way to additional GW gaming formats.
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#56
D3L

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Why not just put a LR in a LR?

Yo Dawg...

that would be the shortly arriving so called "Primaris Land Raider", the Totallywaybiggerthanahouseeus Massifustartes tank, for when your marines don't contain enough marine, and your tank doesn't contain enough tank


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#57
Xenith

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If this can't be used in regular play, then its toilet paper. If we're just making up rules, why waste money. Just put whatever you want on your models and call it a day.

 

So you want to add made up units to the 'matched play' game type, that's supposed to be super balanced for all the people that called for it the past few editions?

 

You're not making up rules. The rules already exist. You're just paying points to add certain rules to a land raider.

 

It's easy enough to do in matched play already with all the specific weapon costs already in print.

 

Just pick the chassis, then 4x sponson weapons, hull weapon, and 2x pintle weapons. Add up points. Profit.


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#58
HCMistborn

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Yeah, the problem comes from the stigma against open play. Wanna do open play with points instead of power points? Do it. Wanna convert? Do it. I would let Chaos use drop pods and such. I haven't played locally much, but I am sure I could find people who are okay with open play. Worse comes to worse I will just play the GW manager like the sad kid playing with the teacher on recess.
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#59
Slave to Darkness

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My heart aches reading all the negative comments regarding the VDR's, I think people need to play Rogue Trader to see how us Living Ancestors used to do battle back in the day. Knocking up your own vehicles has always been a part of 40k, and GW have always said to have fun and do your own thing. TBH I think the Tourny mentality has seeped in and now people wont do anything until GW say 'this is official'. 

 

God knows what people will say about my Inquisimunda campaign fluff about the 4 chaos gods being different aspects of one greater God. I can hear brains exploding already :lol:


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#60
Gentlemanloser

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There are no points in open play.

So it doesn't matter how much the super plasma repeating destroyer macro gun costs. Just how many you can cram into the LR chassis.

And using points in open play defeats the purpose of open play.

You might just as well be paying matched.

Narrative wirth power levels is the same as the PL of you LR won't change. All weapons are free.

Edited by Gentlemanloser, 19 November 2017 - 07:18 AM.

QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#61
HCMistborn

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Except open play is much more than just the points, man.

"Open play is the most flexible system – where you can use any models you like in a game to achieve any sort of objective you like. You can play archetypal scenarios like raids, ambushes or desperate last-stands with “What If” themes, set up races between vehicles, or even use the classic “who would win in a fight between…” as a catalyst for a game with undeniable appeal.

This is also the type of game that lends itself best to team play or multiplayer battles, and is especially useful for those just getting started with Warhammer 40,000 or as a way to try out new models as you are building your way to a larger force. If there is some sort of challenge that can’t be fit into a narrative or matched play game, open play is where it’s at."

It's open, man.
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#62
Gentlemanloser

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You can pay team and campaigns using matched play.

Wanting to use points in open is an oxymoron. Points are for as balanced a match as you can get. Open cares nothing for balanced.

And why even try to get any sembelance of balance when you allow a 2k army to face a 4k point army through free reinforcements?

There is no point using points with open. None at all.

Edited by Gentlemanloser, 19 November 2017 - 07:38 AM.

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QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#63
Ishagu

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If a person pays for the weapon options and uses the chart in the book, I'd have no issue with using these custom Landraiders in a match against myself.
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#64
HCMistborn

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Man, you are only under obligation to play what match and person you want. Do you wanna play open play? Why? I have a cool LR with plasma sponsons, we can use points. 2k vs 2k? Sure.
Wanna play open? Why? I want to use a gigantic massive army against the few you brought. No.
Easy peezy, not open plays fault, but the people involved.

#65
Sete

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In my area people are very anal about using points. Several players are prone to abuse lists.
It's worthless to me :/

Edited by Sete, 19 November 2017 - 07:55 AM.


#66
Gentlemanloser

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But that's *what* open is for.

Dude. Want to see how many turns your last stand crimson fists 20 marines can weather my 400 orks?

Points are worthless to use unless you match them with the matched play rules. The whole notion of points and the reason to use them evaporates with free reinforcements. It literally makes zero sense as an option.

Building custom LR is great. Pay points for them and use them in Matched play.

Open only? Who cares. Stick all the guns on them, carry primaris and let them ds and assault.

It's open. There's *nothing* remotely balanced about open or the idea of open play.

Edited by Gentlemanloser, 19 November 2017 - 08:44 AM.

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QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#67
HCMistborn

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Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree about the spirit of open play, man.

I like the idea of using it as a format for my stuff, I need to find a blank datasheet to mess with on my desktop.

#68
Frater Cornelius

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If a person pays for the weapon options and uses the chart in the book, I'd have no issue with using these custom Landraiders in a match against myself.


Agreed. Most viable options will be extremely overpriced anyway, so it won't be broken. Land Raiders will never be a competitive unit given how much it always kosted, historically, plus the utter uselessness of high T values these days.

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#69
Captain Idaho

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Here's something crazy. Matched Play with these VDR and custom Land Raiders.

Boom.

Even a Matched Play game is going to require communication and organisation -

1st player: "Hey man; wanna play 40K?"

2nd player :"Yeah sure. 2000pts matched play?"

1st player: "Cool with me. Mind if I bring my custom Land Raider?"

2nd player: "Sure. Long as it doesn't wipe me out 1st turn!"

*Both laugh*

1st player: "Nah. Here let me show you it."

2nd player: "Oh that's cool. Let's dice for missions and get started."

***

There's an alternative where the 2nd player says no politely and the 1st player goes "no worries, I have a list without it."

It's that easy.

Tournaments can ban it as they see fit.
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#70
Closet Skeleton

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Narrative wirth power levels is the same as the PL of you LR won't change. All weapons are free.

 

We don't know enough to say that the vehicle design rules won't have power level guidelines in them. There are upgrades that modify power level anyway, just because heavy bolter devastators are the same power level as lascannon devastators doesn't mean that a VDR Terminus Ultra will be a discounted version of the official datasheet for one.

 

The open play missions in the rulebook do give power level guidelines so no, Open play is not 1.0 Age of Sigmar style "throw down whatever you want". The players are still in theory supposed to be able to judge whether or not the game is going to be 'fair' even if they only need to know that so they can choose to make it unfair.

 

Data sheets have a set power level that rarely changes based on options, but VDR would be for making datasheets, not just giving you a datasheet with expanded options on it.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 19 November 2017 - 09:29 AM.

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#71
Corsovitt

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You know 'open play' is like 90 percent of what historical war gaming is, it can be played with points, without points based on scenario or just pile units onto the board in a kill maim and slaughter scenario. There is a place for the VDR exactly the same as there is for scenarios, objectives, narrative play. Not every game has to be a Win/Loss exercise, fun used to be the point of war gaming but increasingly across the many boards I visit, 40k, flames of war, x wing it's all about winning and this is broken or this isn't optimal and the more I read the more glad I am that I don't play outside my little group because the tournament mentality doesn't fit my personality.

Maybe I'm getting old
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#72
Xwingt65

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You know 'open play' is like 90 percent of what historical war gaming is, it can be played with points, without points based on scenario or just pile units onto the board in a kill maim and slaughter scenario. There is a place for the VDR exactly the same as there is for scenarios, objectives, narrative play. Not every game has to be a Win/Loss exercise, fun used to be the point of war gaming but increasingly across the many boards I visit, 40k, flames of war, x wing it's all about winning and this is broken or this isn't optimal and the more I read the more glad I am that I don't play outside my little group because the tournament mentality doesn't fit my personality.
Maybe I'm getting old


I feel the same way, and I am old. So it must be it.

I am in the hobby for the fun, not the “his unit is 2.48% worse that this unit, so it is DA WORST EVAR”.
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The 40k fluff explained to an outsider:

Some space elves got really into drugs and sex and a big scary monster got born that ate them.
A space wizard got beaten up by a guy who said he was his friend but wasn't and now he's on a life support machine and people worship him because he was super awesome.
Now there are giant men with rocket launcher machine guns and 4 hearts and are really super awesome who beat up everything.
Also there's a bunch of aliens but they don't really do anything and aren't as cool as the rocket machine gun super men, so who cares?

#73
Xenith

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Knocking up your own vehicles has always been a part of 40k, 

 

I think that's tech heresy.

 

Maybe that's how they make hellbrutes?

 

 


 the PL of you LR won't change. All weapons are free.

 

Then why are Land raiders different power levels?


Edited by Xenith, 19 November 2017 - 09:49 AM.

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#74
Gentlemanloser

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Transport capacity?

I've no doubt the base power level will be adjustable.

But it won't be because of the weapon options (yeah they effect transport capacity in themselves, but individual weapons don't)

You want to make 5 hurricane plasma guns, sweet. Thier cost won't be reflected on your custom pl lr.

And yeah even open play has win / lose conditions. Major / minor victories.

That's how 40k is designed. Even game is a competition between your and your opponent. However you set the goals.

I think matched play would be great with these custom rules. If the rules are designed well.

Edited by Gentlemanloser, 19 November 2017 - 10:14 AM.

QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#75
Captain Idaho

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Looking at the pictures and examples, I'm not even sure that we can literally build whatever we want anyway. It looks like the rules are limited to what is in the kits currently. So primary hard point will be flamestorm cannons, Twin Lascannons and Hurricanes, whilst secondary hard point is heavy Bolters, Lascannon and heavy flamers (from Predators).

I'd love to be able to have my plasma hurricanes though. How many Psykers do I have to sacrifice to the Golden Throne to make that come true?
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