Chapter Approved Wishlist Ideas

[Holier Than Thou]

I think the best we can hope for from Chapter Approved is possibly some points adjustments (hopefully lower, rather than higher ) but what changes would you like to see for our beloved Brothers of Titan? I would love to see all/most/some of the below.

 

Points adjustments (before Wargear)

 

Grand Master - 140

Brother Captain - 130

Librarian - 125

Techmarine - ? I really don't know, I just know he's far too expensive as is

Strike/Purgation Squad - 18 ppm

Purifier Squad - 23 ppm (dependent on rule changes detailed below, if no change they should be the same price as Strikes/Purgators)

Terminator Squad - 38 ppm

Daemonhammer - 10

Psilencer - 5 (PAGK), 10 (TDA) (based on the fact PAGKs sacrifice NFW to take these)

Incinerator - 0 (PAGK), 5 (TDA) (based on the fact PAGKs sacrifice NFW to take these)

Psycannon - 5 (PAGK), 10 (TDA) (based on the fact PAGKs sacrifice NFW to take these)

Gatling Psilencer - 20 (based on the current weapon stats)

Heavy Psycannon - 25 (based on the current weapon stats)

Heavy Incinerator - 25 (based on the current weapon stats)

Land Raider (all variants) - 200

 

Rules changes

 

Psychic Powers

 

Either allow us to cast each power at least twice or allow buffing powers to affect caster plus additional unit within 3"/6"

Librarian Knows 3 Powers plus Smite, casts 2 Powers

Grand Master Knows 2 Powers plus Smite, casts 2 Powers

Brother Captain Knows 2 Powers plus Smite, casts 1 power

 

Shrouding - Shooting at GKs from 24"+ is at -1 (similar to Raven Guard but not as strong)

Psybolt Ammo - Should be a wargear option, not a stratagem, but ONLY affects Stormbolters

Dreadknights ignore -1 to hit when moving, look at the support struts on the arms, there's no way it should be affected by recoil

Purifiers get 2 attacks base and increase Smite range to 5"

Psycannons & Incinerators (and Heavy versions) are -2 AP, Psycannons, Incinerators & Psilencers (including Heavy versions) do mortal wound on a wound roll of 6 against Daemons/Psykers (If this is the case, keep the current prices except the Hvy Incinerator, that should go to 30 points)

 

What are your thoughts? What would you like to see?

 

[the jeske]

A meaningful difference between strikes, purgs, puris and interceptors. most optimal would be for 2/3 of those 4 to have a valid place in GK lists.

[Seizeman]

I think it should be something like:

 

Grand Master: 135

Brother captain: 120

Librarian : 115

Strikes : 18 (+1 if they take falchions)

Purgation: 17 (+1 for falchions)

Purifiers: 20 (+1 for falchions)

Terminators: 35-36

Daemonhammer: 8 for infantry, 13 for characters and paladins

Psilencer: 0 for power armor, 5 for terminators.

Incinerator: 5 for power armor, 10 for terminators

Psycannon: 10 for power armor, 15 for terminators

Gatling psilencer: 15

Heavy incinerator: 10

Heavy psycannon: 25

Land raider: 180-200

Chaplain: 120

Brotherhood champion: 90

Brotherhood ancient: 95

Paladin ancient: 110

Interceptors: 20 - 21 (+1 for falchions)

Paladins: 50

Dreadnought: 75

Venerable dreadnought: 95

Nemesis dreadknight 120-130

Twin heavy plasma cannon: 34 like the :cussing space marines one

[Gentlemanloser]

GK Lirarian need to lose Rites and have the proper smite back.

[Holier Than Thou]

I think it should be something like:

 

Grand Master: 135

Brother captain: 120

Librarian : 115

Strikes : 18 (+1 if they take falchions)

Purgation: 17 (+1 for falchions)

Purifiers: 20 (+1 for falchions)

Terminators: 35-36

Daemonhammer: 8 for infantry, 13 for characters and paladins

Psilencer: 0 for power armor, 5 for terminators.

Incinerator: 5 for power armor, 10 for terminators

Psycannon: 10 for power armor, 15 for terminators

Gatling psilencer: 15

Heavy incinerator: 10

Heavy psycannon: 25

Land raider: 180-200

Chaplain: 120

Brotherhood champion: 90

Brotherhood ancient: 95

Paladin ancient: 110

Interceptors: 20 - 21 (+1 for falchions)

Paladins: 50

Dreadnought: 75

Venerable dreadnought: 95

Nemesis dreadknight 120-130

Twin heavy plasma cannon: 34 like the :cussing space marines one

Just point changes, no change of rules/stats?

[Seizeman]

Rule changes would be nice, but GW said they would be updating point costs, not rules, in chapter approved.

 

It is too soon to make rules changes for codices that are less than half a year old. Also, it consumes a lot of resources to keep changing rules constantly, specially when 8th edition is so new and they have so much to release yet. I would not expect rules changes at least until the next year's chapter approved, unless it is to fix some major issue.

 

It is a lot easier to balance units by changing their cost. Also, grey knight rules as they are now are pretty solid, and not broken by any means. As long as their point cost is adequate, every unit in the codex can be useful.

 

With only a some points changes similar to what I suggested some units gain flavor without needing to change their rules. For example, with cheaper hammers you could have a dedicated tank hunter interceptor unit. Or you could have a 4 flamer purgation squad with a tranport to burn some infantry or screen against charges. Or a 4 psycannon anti-amor unit, that could justify taking Astral aim. Just having a troop choice between strikes or terminators would make a huge difference in army composition. Affordable land raiders could open new strategies that don't rely on deep strike.

[Corvus Fortis]

I'm pretty sure there would never be any exceptions for GK based on the rule on 1. It only affects one game mode and GW will just suggest narratve if you don't like it. Difference between costs for terminators and strikes based purely on force weapon cost which is 6. So Psilencer+force weapon costs 10 points. Psilencer and no force weapon costs 4 pts, because force weapon cost is 6. Same is true for psycannon\incinerator (20 base, 20-6=14 for strikes). So I doubt there would be any separate changes for costs for different weapons based on whether it is strike or termie. If they drop cost of special weapon, it will affect them both.

 

What I really want to see are cheaper special weapons (everyone wants, I guess). Psycannon and Heavy Psycannon go to AP-2. It will give psycannon it unique role at least. It will be only weapon effective against heavy armor and more effetive against vehicles (psychic onslaught will rise its stats to S8 AP-3 that can really hurt MEQs).

Assault cannon costs 1 point more than a psycannon and has -1 strength but 2 more shots. That means that AC wounds everything but t7 better and having more shots at the same time. 2d to psycannon will make it compete with psilencer, imho, and long-range good AP is what we need. Incinerator is fine, just need to be cheaper. What is really stupid is heavy incinerator. With it stats it should be 20 points, no more. 2 incinerators on strikes can deal almost same damage for just 28 points. I'd change it to 2d6 S6 AP-1 d1 with the same range. 

 

I also would like to see some source of to-wound rerolls. I'd rather see Brother Captian to be our lieutenant instead of almost useless psychic locus. It will be even better if it applies to Crowe or Brotherhood Champion. Crowe needs rending. Really needs. Even if he hits with all of his attacks, than wounds with all of them, than hits again and wounds everything it will be 10 wounds max with no rend. He won't even kill a squad of guardsmen. Marines will just laugh at him. If he gains back both stances and AP-3 with roll of 6+ he will be at least fun. 

 

Purifiers need their 2 attacks back. As well as second power to cast. Purifing flame should deal 1 mortal wound to all units withing 6 (or at least 3). It will be much closer to how it worked in 7th. 

 

Stern - I often forget it even exist. He will be fun if he rerolls all his hit, wound and saving throws but punished if several rerolls are failed. And his AoE smite should work an all units and deal 3d to demons. It is just puny how it is now. 

 

On relics: liber demonica totally useless. Rerolls of 1 for psychic tests will not be broken but make it a choice to consider. I just don't see in which situation it can be usefull. Just the worst thing in codex so far.

 

tl;dr: I'd like to see every units, weapon and trait to have it own purpose. Don't want to be everything competitive, just fun to use in friendly play if I want to. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Armoury changes:

- Incinerator changed to 12" range (I'd more generally changed all flamer weapons in the game to 12", 8" is a sad joke)

- Psycannon changed to D2 (the -1 to hit on the move is annoying, but its the 1 damage per shot that holds it back so much)

- Incinerators free on PAGK, 5pts on Terminators

- Psycannon 10pts on PAGK, 15pts on Terminators (20pts is too much)

- Personal teleporter becomes a 20pt upgrade option for Tech-Marines and Brotherhood Champions. Means we don't have to burn 'Teleportarium' on them, and they can keep up with our faster units like Interceptors or Dreadknights. 

 

Unit changes:

- Terminators reduced to 38 points per model (46 is absurd, especially with forced storm bolter tax). They can't be 33 because their advantages over normal Marine Termies are significant (they don't pay for nemesis swaps unless its a hammer, Smite+Sanctic power, Troops = more Command Points plus Objective Secured). 38 hits the sweet spot between being not quite twice the points of Strikes, but also still cheaper than 4x Paladins. I personally find it really distasteful how hard these guys got nerfed from 7th, they have always been our signature unit.

- Purifying Flame becomes range 6" base. That alone will make Purifiers usable (you should be taking a Brother-Captain in your lists anyway to buff Strikes). The same statline as Strikes is annoying, but you're taking falchions on all PAGK anyway. 

- Tech-Marine and Librarian become 20pts cheaper. They're both currently overcosted for what they do, Libby in particular suffers from Voldus existing (also more generally, we really don't need dedicated Deny on a character, because we have so many Deny attempts, a Strategem to buff it and +1 from Brotherhood). 

- Ancients become 20pts cheaper (both versions). Apothecary and Paladins currently beat them on cost efficiency, and seeing as they can only take a falchion their melee output is mediocre. Failing that, I'd push up the Banner range to 12", 6" can be tricky (the reason DK GM's don't care is they're on such a huge base you're rarely out of range). Also means if you use the 'double aura range' Strat, you can give pretty much your whole army +1A to make people weep.

- Crowe gains AP-4 on any 6+ he rolls to wound. This means with 'Hammerhand' you can trigger on 5's. Currently he's completely pointless so that would give him his role (assassin with variable output). 

 

Stern and Draigo are ok, 'Strands' is still too good for opponents but that has always been true. Voldus is almost too good. I don't know how to fix TDA Grandmasters, maybe make them cheaper but even then when would you ever take them over a DK Grandmaster? 

[Gentlemanloser]

Brotherhood Champion able to take a Personal Teleporter.

 

Datasheet for Chaplain in AA, able to take a Personal Teleporter.

 

Some way of getting a unit with the FLY keyword.

 

Crowe. Gains sword stances. And any wound roll in cc of 4+ is resolved at -4AP.

 

Point reduction for the Techmarine. Ability to swap out the Harness for a Conversion Beamer.

 

Dreadnoughts and NDK able to ignore the -1 hit penalty with Heavy Weapons. Dreads also get dual Twin AC back.

 

Librarian able to take a Storm Shield.

 

Purifiers get 2A back.

 

GKT to have a point reduction comparable to other imperial Terminators.

 

Get rid of the two point costs for our special weapons. One only.

 

Incinerator. Needs to have ignore cover bonus to armour save.

 

Psilencer. Ignore Invulnerable saves. Mind bullets pew pew.

 

Psycannon. Goes back to RoF 6 and is a +1 strength Assault Cannon again. Gains an Assault 3/4 firing mode.

 

Squad Based psychic powers. Powers can also effect 1 character within 3" when cast.

 

Librarian lose Rites of Battle. Have a full powered Smite.

 

Chaplain gain a Fearless power.

 

Crowe / Bro Champ / Purifiers. Cleansing Flame radius increased to 12". Cannot be improved by BC locus ability.

 

Strike. Warp Quake. Any enemy unit deployed within 12" has to take an emergency disembarkment test. Roll 1 lose a model.

 

GKT. Holocaust. Gain a Pistol 1 3" S5 AP0 AP-1 weapon for the game round.

 

Interceptors. Gain FLY keyword for the round.

 

Purgation. If not moved in preceeding movement phase can double range of guns. If moved in preceeding movement phase gain +1 hit. Can have another unit cast Astral Aim on them still.

 

Strats.

 

Twin AC added to psybolt ammo.

 

Relics.

 

Something that can be given to NDK.

 

Buff the Libre so it isn't the worst Relic in the game.

 

I'm sure I've missed stuff.

[Trevak Dal]

+1 attacks on...everything.

[Gentlemanloser]

This is a GK thread guys. ;)

[Prot]

- Merged topics... in the future, just message me, or report it as a duplicate. Thanks.

 

- Some great ideas, and I think this is a fundamental change that really should be there in the continued era of pew-pew 8th edition:

 

+1 attacks on...everything.

 

and... gees I didn't even realize Inceptors lost the fly keyword. (sort of lost it)

 

I don't know what the fix is but we've had editions of the game where everyone gravitates towards a close combat  recipe for weaponry and repeats it throughout the army.

 

It is a complete shame to me that the army is now just the odd hammer and a mass of Falchions. I'm not sure the fix but there has to be a way of validating the other weapons a bit better.  I really dislike the Halberd and Sword this edition.

 

After a fair amount of testing the Psycannons and Psilencers need real help.

[Gentlemanloser]

A small trade off with losing jump infantry is Interceptors can ride in razors now. ;)

[skarn]

The easy fix for gk is to simply get rid of baby smite. With the proliferation of psyker heavy armies about, there is no way that gk units doing smite normally would break the game.

It should be d3 damage, 3 vs daemons.

[Capt. Mytre]

I wrote up a big list of things I wanted, and then lost power =(

 

The main point for me was that we should be able to pick "Brotherhood traits", just like others have Chapters and Reg.

 

1. The Swordbearers: Vehicles in this detachment gain a 5+ Invuln save. If they already have an invlun save, they gain +1 invuln save.

2. The Blades of Victory: Grey Knight units in this detachment can move D6" after DS (including GoI).

3. The Wardmakers: Grey Knight units in this detachment have a +2 Cast/Deny.

4. The Prescient Brethren: Each Grey Knight unit in this detachment can reroll 1 die per turn.

5. The Preservers: Grey Knight Apothecaries in this detachment are considered HQ choices and gain a 6" aura that grants a 5+ FNP to infantry. Only one Apothecary may be taken per detachment. Dreadnoughts gain "Unyielding Ancient" (6+ FNP). If they already have Unyielding Ancient, they gain a +1 to the Unyielding Ancient roll. Apothecaries from this detachment may attempt to heal Dreadnoughts at the end of each movement phase. Roll a dice, on a 2+, heal 1 wound. Roll again, each time increasing the roll required. They can either use this ability or heal a GK infantry unit, but not both.

6. The Rapiers: Grey Knight units in this detachment gain a +1 to hit after DS (including GoI). Servitors gain Teleport Strike and can be fielded as 20 man squads. Servitors lose Mindlock and receive Mindlock Array, granting them +4 WS and BS, LD9 and ignore moral phase losses as long as there is a total of 10 servitor models within a 6" bubble of the unit, including the unit itself. Servitors also gain this buff if there is a friendly Grey Knight Techmarine within 24".

7. The Exactors: Any friendly units with the "Imperium" key word gain 9LD if within 6" of a Grey Knight unit from this detachment. These allied units also each gain the ability to deny one power per turn.

8. The Silver Blades: Gain +1 to hit in the fight phase. Units in this detachment can Fall Back and shoot or charge in the same turn, but not both.

[Prot]

The easy fix for gk is to simply get rid of baby smite. With the proliferation of psyker heavy armies about, there is no way that gk units doing smite normally would break the game.

It should be d3 damage, 3 vs daemons.

I’ve been paying attention to this in my last few games. When the rules first dropped I thought wow, this army is going to crush stuff without Psychic defence through Mortal wound attrition. But it’s not the case.

 

So what I’ve kept track of is the amount of Smite wounds my army gives vs a few ‘normal’ Psykers and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

I hate to say this (I really do) but seeing Nids and Eldar Psychic phases make me feel like the codex creep in 5his balanced edition is still a thing. But to be fair I need more testing.

 

 

I wrote up a big list of things I wanted, and then lost power =(

 

The main point for me was that we should be able to pick "Brotherhood traits", just like others have Chapters and Reg.

 

1. The Swordbearers: Vehicles in this detachment gain a 5+ Invuln save. If they already have an invlun save, they gain +1 invuln save.

2. The Blades of Victory: Grey Knight units in this detachment can move D6" after DS (including GoI).

3. The Wardmakers: Grey Knight units in this detachment have a +2 Cast/Deny.

4. The Prescient Brethren: Each Grey Knight unit in this detachment can reroll 1 die per turn.

5. The Preservers: Grey Knight Apothecaries in this detachment are considered HQ choices and gain a 6" aura that grants a 5+ FNP to infantry. Only one Apothecary may be taken per detachment. Dreadnoughts gain "Unyielding Ancient" (6+ FNP). If they already have Unyielding Ancient, they gain a +1 to the Unyielding Ancient roll. Apothecaries from this detachment may attempt to heal Dreadnoughts at the end of each movement phase. Roll a dice, on a 2+, heal 1 wound. Roll again, each time increasing the roll required. They can either use this ability or heal a GK infantry unit, but not both.

6. The Rapiers: Grey Knight units in this detachment gain a +1 to hit after DS (including GoI). Servitors gain Teleport Strike and can be fielded as 20 man squads. Servitors lose Mindlock and receive Mindlock Array, granting them +4 WS and BS, LD9 and ignore moral phase losses as long as there is a total of 10 servitor models within a 6" bubble of the unit, including the unit itself. Servitors also gain this buff if there is a friendly Grey Knight Techmarine within 24".

7. The Exactors: Any friendly units with the "Imperium" key word gain 9LD if within 6" of a Grey Knight unit from this detachment. These allied units also each gain the ability to deny one power per turn.

8. The Silver Blades: Gain +1 to hit in the fight phase. Units in this detachment can Fall Back and shoot or charge in the same turn, but not both.

I think this is a cool idea but the grey Knights are kind of portrayed as very unified and fairly rigid. I would rather see that diversity in squads rather than chapter type rules.

 

I do really think you’ve got some cool ideas there though.

 

PS chapter approved goes up for pre order on the 25th (Nov)

Edited November 20, 2017 by Prot

[Gentlemanloser]

Seconded Prot. When we first started there was a lot of, grumbling about our psychic phase and 1 smite. I never agreed with the group, and now i hope they understand why.

 

If you have zero psychic defense, sure we're going to chip mortal wounds off.

 

But other psyhic armies (or just inquisitor / malefic lord / neurothrope spam) are going to rip through you.

 

Facing any army with moderate psychic defense and our chip damage is negligible.

 

Especially with our limited options and weapons or opponents should worry about our psychic phase...

Edited November 20, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Capt. Mytre]

I wrote up a big list of things I wanted, and then lost power =(

 

The main point for me was that we should be able to pick "Brotherhood traits", just like others have Chapters and Reg.

 

1. The Swordbearers: Vehicles in this detachment gain a 5+ Invuln save. If they already have an invlun save, they gain +1 invuln save.

2. The Blades of Victory: Grey Knight units in this detachment can move D6" after DS (including GoI).

3. The Wardmakers: Grey Knight units in this detachment have a +2 Cast/Deny.

4. The Prescient Brethren: Each Grey Knight unit in this detachment can reroll 1 die per turn.

5. The Preservers: Grey Knight Apothecaries in this detachment are considered HQ choices and gain a 6" aura that grants a 5+ FNP to infantry. Only one Apothecary may be taken per detachment. Dreadnoughts gain "Unyielding Ancient" (6+ FNP). If they already have Unyielding Ancient, they gain a +1 to the Unyielding Ancient roll. Apothecaries from this detachment may attempt to heal Dreadnoughts at the end of each movement phase. Roll a dice, on a 2+, heal 1 wound. Roll again, each time increasing the roll required. They can either use this ability or heal a GK infantry unit, but not both.

6. The Rapiers: Grey Knight units in this detachment gain a +1 to hit after DS (including GoI). Servitors gain Teleport Strike and can be fielded as 20 man squads. Servitors lose Mindlock and receive Mindlock Array, granting them +4 WS and BS, LD9 and ignore moral phase losses as long as there is a total of 10 servitor models within a 6" bubble of the unit, including the unit itself. Servitors also gain this buff if there is a friendly Grey Knight Techmarine within 24".

7. The Exactors: Any friendly units with the "Imperium" key word gain 9LD if within 6" of a Grey Knight unit from this detachment. These allied units also each gain the ability to deny one power per turn.

8. The Silver Blades: Gain +1 to hit in the fight phase. Units in this detachment can Fall Back and shoot or charge in the same turn, but not both.

I think this is a cool idea but the grey Knights are kind of portrayed as very unified and fairly rigid. I would rather see that diversity in squads rather than chapter type rules.

 

I do really think you’ve got some cool ideas there though.

 

PS chapter approved goes up for pre order on the 25th (Nov)

 

 

 

Well, TBH, I think I am portraying them accurately.

 

Firstly, read the brotherhood fluff in the codex. I've attempted to emulate each as game rules - each brotherhood has a important role, such as The Swordbearers being in charge of most of the chapters vehicles, so the buff applies to vehicles.

 

Secondly, in the fluff, you would have multiple detachments in an army, since they work together, which is encouraged by the strong single benefits they offer.

[John Thompson]

The easy fix for gk is to simply get rid of baby smite. With the proliferation of psyker heavy armies about, there is no way that gk units doing smite normally would break the game.

It should be d3 damage, 3 vs daemons.

I don't personally mind baby smite on the units, but why don't characters get the full version?

[Prot]

 

The easy fix for gk is to simply get rid of baby smite. With the proliferation of psyker heavy armies about, there is no way that gk units doing smite normally would break the game.

It should be d3 damage, 3 vs daemons.

I don't personally mind baby smite on the units, but why don't characters get the full version?

 

 

Yea this is the big one. This is what I'm saying... I've kept track in the last few games.... I think the 'total' smite in many turns is equivalent to if I simply had my 3 characters doing it normally! (on average) So yea some turns I maybe be off a bit on the math but actual in game experience when you combine the total damage with the nerfed range it really doesn't make any sense.

 

At first I thought this was okay, and to a large degree it was okay. (I'm very fearful of 40K turning into mortal wound wars) But then Deathguard came out, and then psychic juggernauts starting coming out with very strong psykers.

 

This is why I say Codex creep does kind of feel like a real thing.... BUT it can be fixed by (and I think this is part of the goal of it) Chapter Approved.

[LuisMars]

Something to deepstrike closer than 9 inches would be great, maybe as a stratagem or rule for some units:

 

Teleport Homing Beacon: Allows you to teleport a unit within 3/6/9? inches of the target of this rule even if it is less than 9 inches away from an enemy unit.

[Capt. Mytre]

Something to deepstrike closer than 9 inches would be great, maybe as a stratagem or rule for some units:

 

Teleport Homing Beacon: Allows you to teleport a unit within 3/6/9? inches of the target of this rule even if it is less than 9 inches away from an enemy unit.

 

This was something I suggested above. You get a free D6" move after any deepstrike movement. It means you can still fail the charge since you can still roll 1, but it will make GK significantly more threatening.

 

Our entire army relies on getting into CC, failing to do so is pretty much an instant loss right now as you get shot off the board before being able to engage + the enemy will probably have greater movement than you, making the second turn charge even harder to achieve.

[Holier Than Thou]

Today's article on Warhammer Community 'implies' points reductions for underperforming units so hopefully we'll see quite a few changes for the better. But should probably be prepared for NDKGM to go up in points.

[Gentlemanloser]

I bet GW view the GK as all overperforming.

 

I have zero hope or faith for any points reductions for us.

 

I pray to be proved wrong.

[Holier Than Thou]

I bet GW view the GK as all overperforming.

I have zero hope or faith for any points reductions for us.

I pray to be proved wrong.

After the Codex debacle, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a big middle finger from Chapter Approved. But Faith, as they say, is our greatest strength so hold to it we must.