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A Broken Throne - Legion 01- The Warbringers

Warbringers A Broken Throne Alternate Heresy

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#51
bluntblade

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Lions were sent to conquer Han and things escalated.

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

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#52
Nomus Sardauk

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Lions were sent to conquer Han and things escalated.


Correction, the Lions were specifically told by Alexandros NOT to attack the Traitor homeworlds behind the Loyalist lines but Hec and his sons' blood was up from the whole "betrayal" thing and Alex's astropathic message didn't make it through the warp tumult.

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#53
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I got muddled. The Scions annex Zbruch as per the old fluff

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

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#54
Doctor Perils

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Weren't the crimson lions sent to purge han before the first solar war? That aside very cool stuff.

 

 

Lions were sent to conquer Han and things escalated.


Correction, the Lions were specifically told by Alexandros NOT to attack the Traitor homeworlds behind the Loyalist lines but Hec and his sons' blood was up from the whole "betrayal" thing and Alex's astropathic message didn't make it through the warp tumult.

 

Ah, I thought Han was destroyed by the Eagle Warriors :/ Oh well, no biggie - this is a first draft of a general outline ^^

 

I got muddled. The Scions annex Zbruch as per the old fluff

When would the Zbruch Catastrophe happen compared to this?


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#55
bluntblade

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Much later. As I sketched the timeline, Koschei returns to Zbruch shortly before the Blood Crusade begins. Let me check my file and get the details

Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

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#56
Doctor Perils

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A young officer in the Lechskan armies at the time of Kozja's conquest of Strela, Holzer kept his command into the very early days of the great crusade. Adopted by House Krogis upon his selection as an Astartes, he was originally made a sergeant in the 2nd Lechska Principate, then was named as third Voiavode of that Principate. As he started to develop his own command style, his fellow officers began to question his choices: not only were his tactical choices unorthodox, he chose not to fight at the forefront of his lines as any honourable man should, but instead lead from the rear, accompanied by his faithful companions. When rumours spread of a mis-healed head wound from his mortal youth, Holzer resigned himself to his fate, knowing full well that he would never more be named heir to a mandate - from this point on, he was observed to be ever more eccentric, putting on weight despite his Astartes physiology, growing an elaborate moustache that was so large it stopped him from putting on his helm, and having his personal banner sown with the most garish of colours.
However, in the years preceding the Qarith Triumph, the original Principates had grown to sizes that had become unwieldy to command for a single Astartes. Deciding to greatly expand the number of Principates in the Legion, Kozja chose the longest serving Voiavodes as Knyazi for the new formations - thus was Holzer made master of the 9th Lechska Principate, much to his surprise.
Nonetheless, Holzer took on his new command with vim and vigour. Continuing his streak of unorthodox behaviour, he split apart the traditional artillery brigade of Lechskan Principates, placing individual Rapiers alongside his tactical squads, allowing him to spread his lines appart, and recruiting large numbers of Auxilia to serve alongside his new-born Principate, breaking the accepted trend of only being accompanied by Auxilia of the same Principality as the Principate's origin. Though it seems his new tactics slowed the rate of his conquests compared to other Principates (the average length of one of his compliances being two days longer then that of his comrades), it did ensure a lower rate of losses both among the Astartes and his mortal Auxilia - perhaps more importantly, worlds were more often seized with intact infrastructure, making the 9th Lechskan Compliances of more worth to the Imperium in a shorter time period then the typical compliance.
Holzer would not truly come into his own however until the Day of Revelation, when the IXth Legion were to ambush the Dune Serpents. Where other Knyazi performed their famous tactics of gunlines and jetbike assaults, Holzer placed his squads in covered positions with interweaving fields of fire. The Dune Serpents, perfectly adept at setting their own ambushes and aware of the Warbringers' traditional tactics, were easily able to evade most Knyazi's attacks - however, as they came against Holzer's units, they were torn apart, their armour units vulnerable to the heavy weapons protecting Holzer's infantry, and the larger part of the dune serpents' numbers vulnerable to the massed fire coming from many directions at once.


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#57
Doctor Perils

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I'm not half as far through the rules as I'd hoped, but here's some advance anyway:

 

Legiones Astartes (Warbringers):

A Brighter Tomorrow: Ever mindful of exemplifying nobility in the eyes of humankind, the Warbringers shun the use of weaponry that cause lasting damage. An army using LA(W) may not take rad grenades, phosphex bombs, or Destroyer squads.

The Indomitable Host: Units with this special rule are immune to Pinning.

Lead by Example: The selective-hereditary system of succession for the golden-armed host made it possible to groom successors to command positions. This led to styles of leadership to continue through several generations of officers, and a general increase in their effectiveness. When secession came and the Suzerainty was declared, the two ancient fellowships of Strela became six, unit commanders joining them to improve the strategic position of the Realm each in their own way.
Each character with the Legiones Astartes (Warbringers) special rule gets to re-roll one Characteristic test or Look Out Sir! test per game round.
The Fellowships of Strela: Up to half the characters in the Warbringers detachment (rounded up) may join a Fellowship, gaining one of the following rules. A character with a Fellowship Special Rule may not benefit from the Lead by Example special rule unless explicitly mentioned.

  • Fellowship (Bogatyry): This Character may re-roll a single to Hit or to Wound roll per turn made in close combat.
  • Fellowship (Asklepian): A single model in this Character’s unit may attempt a single Feel No Pain (5+) test per turn. If the Character is equipped with a Narthecium, a single model in the Character’s unit may attempt to re-roll a single Feel No Pain test per turn.
  • Fellowship (Zvaigzde Valdovas): A unit whose character has this special rule may re-roll a single Reserve, Deep Strike Scatter or Deep Strike Mishap roll per turn. This also applies to the transport in which the unit is embarked.

 

Rite of War: Vostalan Infantry Division
Although Vostalan Infantry Divisions once had simple tactical companies alongside artillery brigades, Valsh Holzer reformed his Principate’s methodology by placing his weapons pieces in close proximity to his infantry squad and equipping them with tracer rounds. Though this may have proven to cause a slight reduction in the rapier batteries’ firepower, it allowed for increased survivability for the main body of his troops, and had the added benefit of making his auxilia detachments better able to see enemy targets.
Effects
Close Support Artillery: For each Infantry Troop units, a rapier support battery may also be taken. This unit does not take up slots in the force organisation chart
Tracer rounds and laser pointers: If an enemy unit was hit by any quad heavy bolter rapier or laser destroyer rapier in the Vostala Infantry Division in the shooting phase, the allied detachment may re-roll 1s to hit in the shooting phase.
Limitations
Rapier support batteries taken as close support artillery may not be upgraded as quad launchers. At deployment they must be be placed within 6” of their assigned infantry squad.
The Vostalan Infantry Division must take an allied detachment that is not chosen from the Legiones Astartes army list.

 

Wargear: Mono-molecular Bardiche
Though the weapons manufactured on Vostala could be of great quality, only the very lowest grade of firearms were ever sold to the warring principalities of Strela. To circumvent their weight and poor aim, Strelan warriors took the habit of using long-axes to use as weapon’s rests, that would then defend them once the enemy came into hand-to-hand fighting range. As Strelans took to the stars under the Kozja’s banners, the practice was carried over to the Legion, and the Bardiche became the iconic weapon that made the golden-armed horde known throughout the galaxy.
Any squad with the Legiones Astartes (Warbringers) Special Rule that has in its wargear a rapid fire, assault or salvo weapon may also purchase Mono-molecular Bardiches for 2 points per model.
A Mono-Molecular Bardiche has the following profile:

Mono-molecular bardiche
Range -
S +1
AP 5
Special Rules Melee, Two Handed, Weapon’s rest

Weapon’s rest: During the shooting phase, a model that has not moved that has a Mono-Bardiche may add 6 inches to the range of a rapid fire, assault or salvo weapon until the end of that turn. (For instance, a tactical legionary with a boltgun and a Mono-Bardiche that has not moved may shoot once at 30”, or twice at 15”)

 

Wargear: Jagellonic Heavy Power Weapon
Any Warbringer that has a Power Weapon or has the option to take a Power Weapon may instead take a Jagellonic Heavy Power Weapon for 5 extra points. Only one of the following options may be chosen:

                          R S AP Special Rules

Strelan Sword    - +1 3  Melee, Two Handed

Vostalan Axe      - +2 2  Melee, Two Handed, Unwieldy

Zalmoxite Mace  - +3 4  Melee, Two Handed, Concussive


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sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#58
Grifftofer

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Nice work on getting this done :) I'm going to comment in the quote because its so much easier :P

I'm not half as far through the rules as I'd hoped, but here's some advance anyway:

 

Legiones Astartes (Warbringers):

A Brighter Tomorrow: Ever mindful of exemplifying nobility in the eyes of humankind, the Warbringers shun the use of weaponry that cause lasting damage. An army using LA(W) may not take rad grenades, phosphex bombs, or Destroyer squads.

I believe that a decision was made (don't recall when) that exemptions like this would be separated from the Legiones Astartes rules and made into Unique Legion Restrictions. (See the Grave Stalkers and Godslayers rules in the Insurrection pdf for examples) Also given that other phosphex weapons are now available to the Legions I would change the "phosphex bombs" to "phosphex weapons" to account for that.

The Indomitable Host: Units with this special rule are immune to Pinning.

Lead by Example: The selective-hereditary system of succession for the golden-armed host made it possible to groom successors to command positions. This led to styles of leadership to continue through several generations of officers, and a general increase in their effectiveness. When secession came and the Suzerainty was declared, the two ancient fellowships of Strela became six, unit commanders joining them to improve the strategic position of the Realm each in their own way.
Each character with the Legiones Astartes (Warbringers) special rule gets to re-roll one Characteristic test or Look Out Sir! test per game round.
The Fellowships of Strela: Up to half the characters in the Warbringers detachment (rounded up) may join a Fellowship, gaining one of the following rules. A character with a Fellowship Special Rule may not benefit from the Lead by Example special rule unless explicitly mentioned.

  • Fellowship (Bogatyry): This Character may re-roll a single to Hit or to Wound roll per turn made in close combat.
  • Fellowship (Asklepian): A single model in this Character’s unit may attempt a single Feel No Pain (5+) test per turn. If the Character is equipped with a Narthecium, a single model in the Character’s unit may attempt to re-roll a single Feel No Pain test per turn.
  • Fellowship (Zvaigzde Valdovas): A unit whose character has this special rule may re-roll a single Reserve, Deep Strike Scatter or Deep Strike Mishap roll per turn. This also applies to the transport in which the unit is embarked.

With the removal of "A Brighter Tomorrow" the Legiones Astartes rule is in need of some kind of a downside. I've always had the impression of the Warbringers as something of an Infantry heavy Legion, so perhaps either the "Rigid Tactics" rule from the Iron Hands or the "Host of Angels" rule from the Blood Angels might fit? (with appropriate re-naming of course)

 

Rite of War: Vostalan Infantry Division
Although Vostalan Infantry Divisions once had simple tactical companies alongside artillery brigades, Valsh Holzer reformed his Principate’s methodology by placing his weapons pieces in close proximity to his infantry squad and equipping them with tracer rounds. Though this may have proven to cause a slight reduction in the rapier batteries’ firepower, it allowed for increased survivability for the main body of his troops, and had the added benefit of making his auxilia detachments better able to see enemy targets.
Effects
Close Support Artillery: For each Infantry Troop units, a rapier support battery may also be taken. This unit does not take up slots in the force organisation chart
Tracer rounds and laser pointers: If an enemy unit was hit by any quad heavy bolter rapier or laser destroyer rapier in the Vostala Infantry Division in the shooting phase, the allied detachment may re-roll 1s to hit in the shooting phase.
Limitations
Rapier support batteries taken as close support artillery may not be upgraded as quad launchers. At deployment they must be be placed within 6” of their assigned infantry squad.
The Vostalan Infantry Division must take an allied detachment that is not chosen from the Legiones Astartes army list.

No problems with this at all. Looks good.

 

Wargear: Mono-molecular Bardiche
Though the weapons manufactured on Vostala could be of great quality, only the very lowest grade of firearms were ever sold to the warring principalities of Strela. To circumvent their weight and poor aim, Strelan warriors took the habit of using long-axes to use as weapon’s rests, that would then defend them once the enemy came into hand-to-hand fighting range. As Strelans took to the stars under the Kozja’s banners, the practice was carried over to the Legion, and the Bardiche became the iconic weapon that made the golden-armed horde known throughout the galaxy.
Any squad with the Legiones Astartes (Warbringers) Special Rule that has in its wargear a rapid fire, assault or salvo weapon may also purchase Mono-molecular Bardiches for 2 points per model.
A Mono-Molecular Bardiche has the following profile:

Mono-molecular bardiche
Range -
S +1
AP 5
Special Rules Melee, Two Handed, Weapon’s rest

Weapon’s rest: During the shooting phase, a model that has not moved that has a Mono-Bardiche may add 6 inches to the range of a rapid fire, assault or salvo weapon until the end of that turn. (For instance, a tactical legionary with a boltgun and a Mono-Bardiche that has not moved may shoot once at 30”, or twice at 15”)

This seems fine too. I'd maybe increase the points cost a little as it is a notably better weapon than a combat weapon and has the additional buffing benefit as well. 3 or 4 points would feel better to me for it.

 

Wargear: Jagellonic Heavy Power Weapon
Any Warbringer that has a Power Weapon or has the option to take a Power Weapon may instead take a Jagellonic Heavy Power Weapon for 5 extra points. Only one of the following options may be chosen:

                          R S AP Special Rules

Strelan Sword    - +1 3  Melee, Two Handed

Vostalan Axe      - +2 2  Melee, Two Handed, Unwieldy

Zalmoxite Mace  - +3 4  Melee, Two Handed, Concussive

For these I think you've overcosted them. I think that these can be straight swaps for power weapons as the loss of attacks is compensated for by the increase in strength. Also the Nostraman Chainglaive is a power weapon replacement and has the same stats as the strelian sword, but with Rending, so I think these'll be fine.

 

As always I hope you find my responses useful.


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#59
Hesh Kadesh

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Hey, don't know if you want a second impression?

 

Legiones Astartes; Warbringers

Brighter Tomorrow; do you mean to exclude Phosphex Shells from Medusa as part of this? You may want to change it to "Phosphex Weapons" as part of this. Also, it's worth bearing in mind that this is less of a limitation regarding the Legiones Astartes rule itself, and more as part of the FoC; Salamanders have this limitation in part, but have it as an additional rule.

Indomitable Host; Perhaps change the phrase to "can choose to automatically pass Pinning Tests". This allows you to Go To Ground if you wish (as all other Auto-pass Pinning checks historically mean that the unit can't Go To Ground. Otherwise, no problem.

Lead By Example; To be clear, Characteristic Tests do not include Leadership Tests, but given the amount of Rerolls for Morale, I think that this is fine. Regarding it being for Characters only, most Characteristic Tests in common usage refer to those of a unit, rather than a character; Blind Tests, or Hit & Run being the most common (rather than Glorious Intervention, or Haemorrhage, which are the only other two options for it that I can think of as being Characteristic Test). If you want to encourage Glorious Intervention, I don't think there's ever going to be a major outcry over Auto-pass. Also/Alternatively, as forced challenges suck, perhaps you could have +1 Combat Resolution if you make a Heroic Intervention.

Fellowships; Having played against a few Thousand Sons armies, and the Wardens of Light in a quick playtest, there is very little more frustrating to play against that having multiple units, all taking different special rules at the start of the battle. As open play is often de rigeur, having to continually ask your opponent "what special rule does this unit have" etc is going to be a bit confusing. I personally think this could do with a re-think just due to simplify a few things; choose half before battle, give them one of 3 special rules.

 

Lack of Negative; As Grift said, there seems to be a lack of a negative to apply to these. I don't think that the rules are ridiculously good on the level of Iron Hands or Alpha Legion, and think that it should be used to encourage a style of play to encourage Legion theme.

 

ROW

I quite like the fact FoC free; perhaps allow it only for units which don't take a Dedicated Transport to preserve a foot slogging theme.

Is the Shooting boost only meant to provide the boost to units who shoot at the same unit? And what happens when the allied detachment don't have Sworn Warriors?

The Rite of War still allows for Knight Household Detachments to benefit also, which could be rather strong.

 

The limitation on the Rite of War should specify it may only be taken as a Primary Detachment. It makes no mention of what happens if there's no Allied Detachment available (Zone Mortalis etc); either precluded from being use.

 

Monomolecular Bardiche

I don't think a point increase is necessary; in fact the opposite. Against most forces, AP5 won't do much, and it gives them an extra edge against Militia Hordes, in addition to the weapon range. A Chainaxe is free to an appropriately modelled World Eater; and is a +1 Str, AP4 Weapon. If anything I'd make the upgrade a flat 20pt Cost - and possibly making it free for those using the Rite of War for certain Squads; Tacticals and Tactical Support Squads?. That way, a 20 Man Tactical Squad is reinforced as the unit of choice, rather than another squad, like Veterans, who'd do better in a Rhino with special weapons. I think that rather than allowing any squad with Rapid Fire Weapons to get it (Terminators, for example), it should be open to specific listed units.

 

Also, does it only apply during the shooting phase, or does it continue to do it the following turn (RE Interceptor, and Overwatch such as for Melta Weapons). 

 

Quick Question regarding Flamer Weapons; should they be ignored, or should they get Torrent (6"). As it is, they're in a bit of a no-mans land.

 

Heavy Melee Weapons

Completely agree here, Two Handed reduces it's efficiency well enough that I think it would be a straight swap. It would almost never be taken over having the potential to do twice the damage.


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Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#60
Doctor Perils

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Thank you both for the comments
1- indeed, all phosphex (and rad) weaponry should be included in the "brighter tomorrow" limitation.
2- indomitable host: actually, now that you mention the different phraseology for the rule, I actually prefer it the way it already is - the Warbringers always stand tall, even if it is detrimental to them
3- for the characteristic test, it is indeed the wish that it shouldnt include leadership tests: there are actually three other fellowships that I haven't rewritten yet, and one will boost leadership possibilities.
The point about the non-obvious choice is a well made one: I'll add a note to say that the Fellowship's assigned colour should feature prominently on the model, similarly to how power weapons have a not saying the exact choice should be represented on the model.
4- additional limitation: i must admit I'm a bit confused as to where you stand Hesh, but I'm open to options. The way the legion fluff is evolving, I'm reluctant to limit the number of tanks (or other types of model) as certain Principates are set to be mainly tank or mainly jetbike armies (for example), however I don't have any other ideas atm. I must admit I can't remember what the IH's limitation is :S
5-indeed, I'll be adding the limitation on dedicated transports. I'd possibly limit it away from "by order of the emperor/stormborn/suzerains", but I'm not sure if other levels should cause a problem?
I thought that my sentence would mean that this detachment must be primary (the other being the allied detachment), and would also preclude playstyles with no allies, so I'll have to change the sentence a bit it seems.
Is re-rolling ones such a massive boost to knights? I've never used one or played against one so have a bit of trouble imagining it - I'm okay limiting it to non-superheavies in general though

Edited by Lord Thørn, 26 March 2018 - 09:57 PM.

sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#61
Doctor Perils

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6-bardiche: just realised I forgot the "unwieldy" rule - as it's an Axe and other axes have Unwieldy it would only seem fair, and would limit the cost too. Even now, i don't believe it's markedly better than the close combat weapon as you lose an attack (two handed)
I also forgot to give it a limitation with regards to Terminator armour and boarding shields. I'd still like to have it as an option for veterans (with the "sniper" veterans harkening back to the envisaged Streltsy Marksmen Squad), and for Rotor Cannon heavy support squad - which essentially means half the army list so thought it would be just as simple to write it the way I did?
7- the straight swap is noted. If you have any ideas to make them a tad better otherwise (ie giving them Rending) I'm open to suggestions - I didn't want to move too far from basic power weapons though as I only want to use a single slot for the bunch

Edited by Lord Thørn, 26 March 2018 - 10:09 PM.

sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#62
Grifftofer

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4- The Iron Hands limitation restricts them from taking more Iron Hands non-Infantry units than Iron Hands Infantry units. From what you've said that wouldn't seem to be the best fit either though. Well the not being able to go to ground does help tone down their rules a little bit, but it still needs something more... If you could give us a quick reminder of their primary tactics maybe it will spark an idea?

 

6- Ok. So in relation to the Bardiche. I personally believe that the World Eaters get a discount on the Chainaxe because it is so iconic and because their rules are so combat focused in what is arguably a pro-ranged heavy game (I think its the same for the Dark Angels +1S power sword). I believe that the +2pts/model that SoH Reavers pay is a much better measure of their value in game. Continuing from that the difference between AP4 and 5 is not huge in the Heresy because of the number of 3+ saves and the relative scarcity of 4+ or lower, thus I believe that the +1S is actually the main thing that is being paid for, which the Bardiche has too. And then on top of that it has a bonus that can be applied to the unit's ranged weapons making it useful regardless of whether the unit is in combat or at range. To me that versatility is worth the extra point or two (probably 1 having thought on it more).

Note however that this all goes out of the window with Thorn's comment that it is supposed to be Unwieldy. At that point I think it would be fine for it to be a free replacement for a chainsword/combat blade.

 

7- I'm not so certain that they need anything more than they have right now. As they are they offer an interesting alternative to the existing power weapons as you can choose to go for the harder hitting or the greater number of attacks. I actually think that some units will get more use out of them than others, but I don't see that as too big of an issue personally.



#63
Doctor Perils

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The Warbringers are more of a gunline army, however some Principates (ie Divisions) heavily emphasize cavalry (whether jetbikes or mechanised depends on the principality: ie Darzalan Principates are mostly full-jetbikes and speeders, and Vostala have mostly tanks and so on) so mostly shooty, but with select assault elements of the jetbike variety.

One of the other important aspects to the army is allies (especially the Novadeka regiments) but I think that's probably represented well enough in the RoW

In terms of mindset, they are very set on honour, but an arrogant sort of honour, where they believe themselves to be above others - that might be a route to explore?

The other points are duly noted


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#64
Grifftofer

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The Warbringers are more of a gunline army, however some Principates (ie Divisions) heavily emphasize cavalry (whether jetbikes or mechanised depends on the principality: ie Darzalan Principates are mostly full-jetbikes and speeders, and Vostala have mostly tanks and so on) so mostly shooty, but with select assault elements of the jetbike variety.

One of the other important aspects to the army is allies (especially the Novadeka regiments) but I think that's probably represented well enough in the RoW

In terms of mindset, they are very set on honour, but an arrogant sort of honour, where they believe themselves to be above others - that might be a route to explore?

The other points are duly noted

Alright the honour part makes me think that they should always have to accept Challenges. Not always issue them because they're not hunting glory and they have the arrogance to believe they are above anyone they face and don't have to prove it. But if someone challenges them they have to save face and show the usurper their proper place.

 

To go along with that maybe they would be less willing to listen to the orders of non-Warbringer commanders and thus the other part of their downside could be something like the SoH Bitter Pride?:

  • Units with this special rule cannot benefit from the Warlord Trait of an allied character or an allied Independent Character's Leadership score.


#65
Doctor Perils

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I like the idea of always accepting challenges :)

However, the Warbringers often work in close coordination with allies, and they know to follow the chain of command: if their Primarch tells them to follow a mortal, they'll follow that mortal, no questions asked (though they'll be grumbling) - plus, many Warbringers are adopted upon ascension into one of the noble Houses of the Jagellonic system.

 

Otherwise, I had the idea of having a rule along the lines of:

"A Warbringers detachment must have as many or more Troop units then it has Fast Attack and Heavy Support units" (ie, if you have 2FA and 3HS, you must have 5 or more troop choices)

 

It's thematic considering the organisation of a Warbringers' Principate (essentially a military Division), yet it also allows for all-tank or all-jetbike lists for example (like you could find depending on the Principality of origin)

 

Perhaps we could meet half-way, with an obligation to accept challenges, and must have more troop units then the greatest number between fast attack and heavy support (ie, if you have 2FA and 3HS, you must have 3 or more troop choices)?


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#66
bluntblade

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I don't believe Kozja would ever countenance anyone but an Astartes ordering his sons around.

I could see that being a lingering point of pride in the Suzerainty, while Inquisitors hold authority over Imperial Astartes.

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#67
Doctor Perils

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I'm not speaking about random Joe the Auxilia general, but about a highly placed member of a Jagellonic noble family.
Bah, i don't know ^^
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#68
Hesh Kadesh

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Given that any Legionary Allied Detachment can benefit from a Warlord Trait, it goes to show that the Sons of Horus are exceptional in that they will not. Unless the Legion specifically won't listen, I don't think Bitter Pride is especially fitting.

 

I think that the rule you have suggested is fine;

 

- Any Warbringers Primary Detachment may not include more units in total chosen from the Fast Attack or Heavy Support sections than they have Troops in the detachment.

 

This sounds punishing at first, but given that there are 4 Elites, and you have a Rite of War which grants free ranged AoE units (typically a Heavy Support option), I think this is fine.


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Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#69
Doctor Perils

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The Pernach
Kozja's military council, the Pernach was composed of six high ranking officers of the Legion all the way from its inception upon the IX’s reunification with its Primarch.
Its first two members were the Hetmans, the highest of all military officers of the Legion. Originating from the co-masters of the Steel Guard, the Hetmans were chosen to lead whole sections of the Legion in the Primarch's absence.
First Knyaz Darzala Perkenas has been Hetman of Jagellon since the death of his predecessor several years after Kozja took up the mantle of Master of the Legion, but the post of Hetman of Oneiron has been changed many times, few keeping the position more than nine years, leading to rumours of a curse set by the first Hetman Oneiron, Kharon Dasz, after his destitution by the Primarch.
The third member of the Pernach was the Castellan of Strela. Though several worlds were used as recruitment grounds by the Warbringers, by far the largest pool of candidates was the world of Strela, and as such it was vitally important to keep it well protected, even in the absence of the Primarch and the Pernach: to do so, a Knyaz of the Legion was named every ten years by Kozja to act as master of recruits, and should the need arise as the overall general to rally the defence forces of the world. Though in theory the post could be held by any Knyaz of the Legion, tradition stated that the Primarch should hand the position to a nobleman of one of the Heraldic Houses of Ancient Mogugrad, the capital of Strela before Old Night.


Relic: The [Cursed] Bullawa
The Bullawa borne by the Hetman Oneiron as a badge of office is a power-mace of unknown origin. Within its head seems to lie a generator of Archaeotech design, lending the weapon a surprising nimbleness and the ability to cast flames that are as prone to eat away at the wielder as the enemy. Though many of the marines that have held the position have been killed or disappeared, this weapon has always made its way back to the reliquary of the legion, ready to be granted by the Primarch to a new Hetman of the Legion.
{Real origin: a daemon mace of Tzeentch, one of the elements that the god of change has used to try and lure the Warbringers of the “IX” legion to his worship}
The Cursed Bullawa is a wargear option that may only be granted to a character with the Legiones Astartes (Warbringers) and Master of the Legion special rules. It replaces a Power mace for [X] points and has the following profiles (both may be used in the same phase)
One improved power mace profile, with the old daemon weapon rule that granted an additional D6 attacks but could attack the bearer on a roll of 1, and one template attack, probably better then a flamer, representing Tzeentch Flamer attacks?
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#70
Doctor Perils

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med_gallery_77459_12000_146202.jpg


  • Nomus Sardauk and simison like this
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#71
Doctor Perils

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Tentative rules ideas:

Fellowships of Oneiron: (modification to the previous)
If the warlord is given a Fellowship, then the whole army may take it. Should this option be chosen, all eligible characters *must* take the same Fellowship

Lead by Example: models with this special rule automatically pass Pinning checks and may never go to ground

(Limitations:)
Golden Armed Host (?): A Warbringers detachment must have as many or more troop units then fast attack and heavy support units combined.

A Brighter Tomorrow: no rad or phosphex weaponry and no destroyer squads may be taken as part of a Warbringers detachment


Dagomir Mihailovic:
Disappointment to the Primarch: may never be the army's warlord
Master of Project Genesis: a single special unit from a different Legion may be taken as an elites choice. This unit loses its previous Legiones Astartes rule but gains Legiones Astartes (Warbringers) instead.
Retrieve Genesis project gene-seed stock (?): may score extra victory points if near an enemy unit with the Legiones Astartes rule at the time of death - similar to Astral Claws apothecaries

Kozja Darzalas:
The White Guard: may take a bodyguard unit of essentially jacked up Solar Auxilia Veletaris with Strelan Power Swords - if such a unit is taken, Kozja Darzalas may not leave it willingly (if he is the last member of the squad standing he may join other units as normal) - these guys are in the fluff but i didn't know how to insert them in the rules otherwise. In this case, they'd essentially be tasked with taking care of blob units whilst Kozja can focus on more important matters - ie Primarchs and Knights for instance

Edited by Lord Thørn, 24 April 2018 - 08:59 PM.

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#72
Grifftofer

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Tentative rules ideas:

Fellowships of Oneiron: (modification to the previous)
If the warlord is given a Fellowship, then the whole army may take it. Should this option be chosen, all eligible characters *must* take the same Fellowship
I assume this is an addition to the above rules. So you can take up to half of you characters from the Fellowships, except when you have a Warlord with one of them. Then you have to have the whole army from that Fellowship. Am I following right?
Lead by Example: models with this special rule automatically pass Pinning checks and may never go to ground
This I'm confused on. Is this replacing the existing Lead by Example trait? Are you also losing The Indomitable Host trait as it does almost the same thing? Does this still get replaced by the Fellowships trait? I think that I need to see a write of the LA rules in full together to understand the changes you're wanting to make.
(Limitations:)
Golden Armed Host (?): A Warbringers detachment must have as many or more troop units then fast attack and heavy support units combined.
This is fine to me. I was having some issues with it, but I think mechanically its perfectly sound and a reasonable restriction.
A Brighter Tomorrow: no rad or phosphex weaponry and no destroyer squads may be taken as part of a Warbringers detachment
As I mentioned previously this would be a separate restriction to the LA rules, but its effectively the same as the Godslayers one so I have no issues with it.

Dagomir Mihailovic:
Disappointment to the Primarch: may never be the army's warlord
Master of Project Genesis: a single special unit from a different Legion may be taken as an elites choice. This unit loses its previous Legiones Astartes rule but gains Legiones Astartes (Warbringers) instead.
Retrieve Genesis project gene-seed stock (?): may score extra victory points if near an enemy unit with the Legiones Astartes rule at the time of death - similar to Astral Claws apothecaries
I'm not entirely sure why his proto-genesis marines would have access to the arms/training that other Legion unique units do, but I guess it's fine. Personally I'd think that you could have a single unit who has a different Legiones Astartes rule than Warbringers and it would fit better, but to each their own. I think that giving him a re-work of the Primus Medicae Sacred Trust rule (chance of giving VP when friendly unit is wiped out within 6") so that it works only on enemy units would be perfectly fine :)
Kozja Darzalas:
The White Guard: may take a bodyguard unit of essentially jacked up Solar Auxilia Veletaris with Strelan Power Swords - if such a unit is taken, Kozja Darzalas may not leave it willingly (if he is the last member of the squad standing he may join other units as normal) - these guys are in the fluff but i didn't know how to insert them in the rules otherwise. In this case, they'd essentially be tasked with taking care of blob units whilst Kozja can focus on more important matters - ie Primarchs and Knights for instance

I have no issue with these guys personally. I feel like Solar Auxilia Veletaris might not be sufficiently augmented to represent the White Guard, but I've not got an alternative ready to show. I'll have a think about it (A modded Militia unit might fits once Provenances are applied).



#73
Doctor Perils

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a - yes, it's an addition to the previous, so as you say, up to half the characters may take a variety of fellowships or they may all take the same fellowship as the army's warlord. However, it's still possible to take the first option even if the warlord takes a fellowship

 

b - ah, I forget the names of my own rules and was on my phone when writing this - it's meant to replace Indomitable Host, as you say

 

c and d - I think both of these rules (golden-armed host and brighter tomorrow) would be apart from the Legiones Astartes rule, in the limitations section

 

e - Noted for the different unit - to be honest, I'm not perfectly convinced by either option for project geneseis anymore, so that one will be going back to the drawing board.

The Sacred Trust modification sounds like a good idea :)

 

f - They wouldn't be simple Solar Auxilia - they'd have a stat-line between that of a Veletaris and a Marine


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#74
Sigismund229

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Did we decide who was going to command the Warbringers on Iyacrax? I seem to recall it's not Kozja anymore


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#75
Doctor Perils

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I must admit, I can't remember having spoken about replacing Kozja as commander there. Further, I actually like the idea of Kozja failing yet again (ie after the Prosecution and his mostly failed attack on the Dune Serpents at the Day of Revelation) - this could well be one of the reasons he has to decide to turn against Icarion and the corrupting influence of Chaos on the Insurrectionists.


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