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What firing a .950 round by a human looks like?


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#1
Kastor Krieg

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And now imagine that at full auto, belt fed. Yes, that's a heavy bolter.

kFqeJnE.gif


The best part is where he MISSED with the round falling a meter short of target and the DIRT KICKUP shredded the "meaty" pumpkin targets.

Brutal.


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#2
Frater Cornelius

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And yet it is still only 5/-1/1. I have a feeling that Bolt Weapons are woefully underpowered to what they are supposed to be. Dark Heresy did it right(-ish).


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#3
WarriorFish

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Almost a heavy bolter, given the bolt would explode upon entry to the heretical pumpkin :P


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#4
OnboardG1

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And yet it is still only 5/-1/1. I have a feeling that Bolt Weapons are woefully underpowered to what they are supposed to be. Dark Heresy did it right(-ish).

 

S4 is pretty beefy in real world terms. A lasgun can demolish a wall and is only S3. There's a sequence in Baneblade where some characters are firing m2 equivalent rifles and they're said to be puny compared to even the protagonist's laspistol. Boltguns just look kind of puny because everyone and their mother is in power armour (which bolters aren't really designed to deal with, as they're mass reactive rather than AP unless you use specialised loads) and rocking a gene-enhanced biology that is designed to defeat most small arms fire. 

 

Fire 40 boltgun shots into some Eldar or Cultists though and watch the bits fly :)


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#5
Frater Cornelius

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[...]

 

Fire 40 boltgun shots into some Eldar or Cultists though and watch the bits fly smile.png

 

 

Amen.


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#6
Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch

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Best waste of twenty minutes on lunch break ever. Brings a tear to my eye (almost literally). Such sweet firepower with which to defend humanity. Thank you very much, Kastor. Cheers!
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#7
Semper Fortis

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I've hunted with .50 cal blackpowder and that recoil leaves a mark. I can't even imagine the bruise that monster would make. And THAT'S why the Emperor made Space Marines. :) Thanks, Kastor!
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#8
Xenith

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And yet it is still only 5/-1/1. I have a feeling that Bolt Weapons are woefully underpowered to what they are supposed to be. Dark Heresy did it right(-ish).

 

That's because the 'average' profile in Dark Heresy is 'human' no? Bolters are massively overpowered when all they have to face is humans, but in the scale of the 41st millenium, a heavy bolter isnt all that impressive. Each round that hits still has a 1/6 chance of punching through a battle tank.


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#9
Frater Cornelius

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And yet it is still only 5/-1/1. I have a feeling that Bolt Weapons are woefully underpowered to what they are supposed to be. Dark Heresy did it right(-ish).

 

That's because the 'average' profile in Dark Heresy is 'human' no? Bolters are massively overpowered when all they have to face is humans, but in the scale of the 41st millenium, a heavy bolter isnt all that impressive. Each round that hits still has a 1/6 chance of punching through a battle tank.

 

 

Well, the reason they work well is because of Shred, but yes, I agree. Most of the time 4 + D10 is enough to do a lot of damage to your regular carapace human.


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#10
SickSix

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Awesome. Thanks for sharing.

I have fired a 7mm Win Mag and that is enough for me.

Honestly I think a Mk19 40mm grenade launcher is the closest thing we have to a heavy bolter right now. Obviously a HB is higher velocity and smaller caliber but I think in terms of effect on target, a Mk19 is pretty close.

#11
Kastor Krieg

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Awesome. Thanks for sharing.

I have fired a 7mm Win Mag and that is enough for me.

Honestly I think a Mk19 40mm grenade launcher is the closest thing we have to a heavy bolter right now. Obviously a HB is higher velocity and smaller caliber but I think in terms of effect on target, a Mk19 is pretty close.

I imagine that due to the ramjet type of bolter ammo, it's more like a crossbreed of the M2HB's range and sustained fire with the splash effect of Mk19's HEDP ammo.


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#12
OnboardG1

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I've hunted with .50 cal blackpowder and that recoil leaves a mark. I can't even imagine the bruise that monster would make. And THAT'S why the Emperor made Space Marines. smile.png Thanks, Kastor!

 

Blackpowder has such a nice recoil though. I imagine a bolter being like holding onto a jackhammer :P


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#13
Volt

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That's not nearly close to a bolter. Firstly a .950 actually is far smaller of a round, shorter than a bolter. Secondly all bolts are in fact two stage projectiles with INSANE velocity as they now being described with greater frequency of being hypersonic in close quarters- which means this isn't just due to the rocket. That would take time to accelerate and would be worthless in close quarters. In order to get hypersonic velocities out the barrel you need the kicker charge to be hypersonic, and for those unaware hypersonic is classified as Mach 5 to Mach 10, or a minimum of 1,715 meters per second.

 

Spoiler

 

Now thanks to Deathwing we have a fairly good look at what a proper bolter round looks like a detailed model and, that is significantly longer than the .950 jdj. in fact this is more comparable to autocannon rounds, and one guy I know on another forum calculated the size of the storm bolter rounds to be around 19x100mm, which explains their speed and power for being "merely" 19mm projectiles. If they were just using standard slugs without special sci fi penetrating tips, explosives, and rocket fuel this would make a bolter "merely" peer with anti-aircraft autocannons. Slap those extra tidbits on and you've got something more akin to high power chainguns, only able to fire hypersonic projectiles depending upon the load.

 

The hypersonic nature of bolters and the kicker charge also explains why humans can't use astartes bolters compared to their own even though they're the same caliber, and why astartes bolters are insanely heavy compared to standard ones.


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#14
Brother Lunkhead

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Ouch! I can feel the bruise. Thanks for sharing... very coolthumbsup.gif

 

The US Army was field testing THIS in Afghanistan starting in 2010. It's the closest thing I've seen to a Bolter so far. Expense and contractor problems will probably kill it though.



#15
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Pretty sweet!  I love being able to actually "picture" what a 1.00 caliber round looks/feels like, and the results it'd have (even if not mass-reactive)  :)


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#16
Frater Cornelius

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Would a Bolter even have recoil though? Weren't the bullets more akin to self-propelled grenades as opposed to bullets accelerated by powder?

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#17
The Unseen

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Would a Bolter even have recoil though? Weren't the bullets more akin to self-propelled grenades as opposed to bullets accelerated by powder?


Bolters have a more conventional propellent that gives it a high initial velocity, after it leaves the barrel the "rocket" part kicks in, and accelerates them further.

So bolts fired at close range still have penetrating power. (The irl example of a gyro jet guns biggest flaw was the initial muzzle velocity was pathetic)
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#18
Marshal Rohr

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You can tell the guy definitely didnt expect the recoil to be as bad as it was. 



#19
Servant of Dante

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Wouldn’t that bullet be a bit smaller than a bolter round, let alone a heavy bolter? I guess maybe it’s not canon but what I had in my head was that a HB round is like the size of a fist.

#20
the jeske

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So all we just need now is for someone to take the ammo and put it in to a size up uzi pro, and we have a bolt pistol. And a probably a broken collarbone.


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#21
The Unseen

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Wouldn’t that bullet be a bit smaller than a bolter round, let alone a heavy bolter? I guess maybe it’s not canon but what I had in my head was that a HB round is like the size of a fist.


Authors like to use "fist-sized" for heavy bolter rounds, while also claiming .95 caliber.
.95 caliber is just a hair under an inch in diameter, so the bullet is almost a ln inch cubed in volume.
Instead, think of the fact that the cartridge it's firing is longer than your palm.
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#22
Frater Cornelius

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Calgar's Siege described HB rounds being 20mm, which is used in autocannons or anti-material rifles like the Mauser. We are talking from 20x82mm up to 20x128mm. The .950 JDJ uses the 20x110mm Vulcan as its parent case. In this case the author did get it right, apparently.

 

Interestingly, 20mm is also used in various gatling guns. Do we know what caliber the Punisher Gatling uses? Given that it is also S5 and deals 1 damage, probably 20mm as well, but different as it does not have the same AP.


Edited by Frater Cornelius, 27 November 2017 - 11:34 AM.

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#23
Archaeinox

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The mechanical "CHEENK" of the Mk19 firing is what I imagine a bolt round to sound like. I was a machine gunner in the Corps and standing next to someone firing it would definitely hit you physically in the chest on full auto. It was wonderful


Edited by Archaeinox, 27 November 2017 - 12:26 PM.

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#24
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Well, firing any heavy recoil rifle off a bench is going to surprisingly unpleasant.



#25
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Calgar's Siege described HB rounds being 20mm, which is used in autocannons or anti-material rifles like the Mauser. We are talking from 20x82mm up to 20x128mm. The .950 JDJ uses the 20x110mm Vulcan as its parent case. In this case the author did get it right, apparently.

 

Interestingly, 20mm is also used in various gatling guns. Do we know what caliber the Punisher Gatling uses? Given that it is also S5 and deals 1 damage, probably 20mm as well, but different as it does not have the same AP.

 

20mm refers specifically to the diameter, not the case length, so HB rounds being 20mm does not necessarily mean they are the same as our 20mm autocannon rounds.  There are currently 25x40mm and 25x59mm grenades out there which would be more feasible.

 

Practically speaking, how would an ammo feed belt that's well over 5" wide work (e.g. like the one on an Oerlikon autocannon), even if you're an 8' tall power armoured giant?


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