Why do so many Adeptus Astartes lists include St. Celestine?

[Frater Cornelius]

I see a lot of Imperial soup lists and sometimes even pure Marine lists include her. Why? She does not offer any force multiplication like Guilliman, who buffs Imperials as well as UM. Just because she is a solid beatstick and hard to kill? Does that justify 150-250pts? I could take more Razorbacks, you know. What's her use in a Marine list?

 

Thoughts/ideas?

Edited November 20, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[Mileposter]

I'm in a similar boat. Back when a certain kickstarter was mulling around I almost dedicated to building a Sisters army just to use her, but other than that... Can't really justify her elsewhere.

[Frater Cornelius]

I'm in a similar boat. Back when a certain kickstarter was mulling around I almost dedicated to building a Sisters army just to use her, but other than that... Can't really justify her elsewhere.

 

My question arose because of Da Boyz GT, which had a Marine list win the event with Celestine in the army, even sacrificing CT to do so. What did she bring to the list that, say, Tigurius wouldnt have brought?

[Nalim]

 

I'm in a similar boat. Back when a certain kickstarter was mulling around I almost dedicated to building a Sisters army just to use her, but other than that... Can't really justify her elsewhere.

 

My question arose because of Da Boyz GT, which had a Marine list win the event with Celestine in the army, even sacrificing CT to do so. What did she bring to the list that, say, Tigurius wouldnt have brought?

 

 

Pressure. Thanks to fly and her double-movement ability, she can charge turn one. Then, the enemy needs to deal with her and thanks to 2+, 4++ and 7W that will take some effort that will otherwise be spent on more important units. Afterwards, she'll come back at at 35/36 chance, doing the same thing all over again. If the enemy has some elite infantry Celestine will most likely make her points back in these two rounds and will have forced the enemy to kill her twice while he otherwise could have killed 1-3 razorbacks with the same amount of firepower.

 

Basically, if you optimize your list, she's a no-brainer.

[Aothaine]

Yup agree completely. Optimized lists with her and some assassins to block most of the fire at her are darn good. It is cheese though so don't take it to your normal games at your FLGS.

[Brother Captain Ed]

You have to play her to see just how good she is. Totally in a vacuum before you get to list design she: is a good beatstick, sloughs wounds like mad, is very fast, gets a free move/shoot/fight, and rocks good saving throws. Thats out of the gate. With blockers for the character rule and/or good long range fire, she can roll up whole flanks by herself.

 

I'm not 100% certain how this gentleman played her (I've never owned a fire raptor), but in a Guilliman gunline she is fairly versatile. Against an opposing gunline, she's fast enough to get a first turn charge. Against a horde, she either cleans up vanguard units (ork bikers, fliers, etc) or forces them to hang back. She's fast enough to act as a reaction force to deep strikers. If something manages to tie up a Razorback, she can make sure it's only the one turn of shooting lost. Finally, if things have really not gone well, she and Guilliman can just Bash Brothers their way through the problem. She's not an Ultramarine, but she does benefit from the Imperium bubble.

 

I can see why he gave up his CT for her. The list doesn't require it and he still has the best thing about <Ultramarines>: Guilliman's bubble. I bet that list is just super nasty. (Duh, if it won a GT. But I mean even by that standard.)

[CCE1981]

Did he give up his Chapter Tactic or a Command Point?

[Frater Cornelius]

I may try her out next game. Seems legit.

[crazyterran]

If you are running a mostly vehicle list, you dont care about CT, so why not run Celestine? Shes probably the best HQ choice in the Imperium.

[Closet Skeleton]

She's a harassment unit in a edition where good harassment is really needed but actually kind of rare.

[ERJAK]

Also she makes a unit of seraphim with inferno pistols SUPER deadly for very cheap, as they get their own AoF on a 2+ and can move 24", tie up some artillery, then doubleshoot during your turn.

[Frater Cornelius]

Now she costs 200pts base, up from 150, but her Gemini cost 25pts each. You recon she is still worth it? ery few play Gemini and hwr cost only remained the same when taking the whole set. 200pts is pretty big hike, or is she just that good that it won’t matter?

[SydonianDragoon404]

Well before you paid 250 for the whole set anyway, and I'm guessing most people bought the Gemini? Or did they really take her solo? I'm gonna give her a try sometime. I was planning on taking the whole set with both Gemini anyway. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by SydonianDragoon404

[Frater Cornelius]

Always solo, one Gemini in a few isolated cases. I have never seen two being used. This is why this change is potentially a game-changer.

[CaptainMarsh]

Bringing the Gemini increases Celestine's effectiveness and survivability tremendously. always bring them if you can. Extra wounds that are brought back guaranteed every turn Celestine is alive. The s3 Power sword attacks aren't that amazing, but heck, more attacks and survivability are great.

[SyNidus]

Is Celestine still worth it given the points increase?

 

I've been toying with the idea of adding a vanguard detachment with celestine and 3 assassins.

[Cpt Rana]

Is Celestine still worth it given the points increase?

 

I've been toying with the idea of adding a vanguard detachment with celestine and 3 assassins.

200 points for 14 wounds with 24” movement and 2+ 4++. I would say yes. When in combat she deliver 12 attacks hitting on 2’s. And now with the new stratagem she can attempt denying the which at 4+.

How much would a equal VV squad cost (haven’t fielded them in 8th yet)

[Lemondish]

Is Celestine still worth it given the points increase?

 

I've been toying with the idea of adding a vanguard detachment with celestine and 3 assassins.

 

An important note to keep in mind is that while Celestine went up in price, her Geminae went down to the extent that including all 3 is the same points cost as they previously were.  

[CaptainMarsh]

If anything, I'd argue that the unit as a whole was made more attractive. Celestine and the Geminae are the same cost they were as a unit before. These additional wounds, a pair of which will auto-regenerate every turn if Celestine is alive, are pretty effective. 4++ saves with 3 power sword attacks each to boot is pretty solid as an addition.  Celestine has in effect 11 wounds, four of which need to be chewed through, two per model, before it even touches her. For 250 points it remains amazing.