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2000pts Raven Guard bikes. Relic and Warlord?


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#1
Ipsen

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A little foreword, not played 8th yet and the sum total of my games since I think 5th edition was one game of 7th with a friends Tau against chapter master smashf***er (I’m sure those poor fire warriors would still have nightmares about it if they hadn’t all died). I used to play a fair amount with either Black Templars or Dark Angels. My current opponents I am told are likely to be Ultramarines, Death Guard, Imperial Guard and to a lesser extent Orks. Thinking of putting the following together.

+++ AA 2000 a (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [95 PL, 2000pts] +++

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [62 PL, 1288pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Librarian on Bike [8 PL, 135pts]: 5) Psychic Fortress, 6) Null Zone, Force sword, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun

Librarian on Bike [8 PL, 135pts]: 5) Psychic Fortress, 6) Null Zone, Force sword, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 129pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 129pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 182pts]: Twin lascannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 182pts]: Twin lascannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Predator [9 PL, 198pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Twin lascannon, Two Lascannons

Predator [9 PL, 198pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Twin lascannon, Two Lascannons

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [33 PL, 712pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [6 PL, 103pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun, Twin boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Bike Squad [9 PL, 203pts]
. Biker Sergeant: Combi-plasma, Twin boltgun
. 3x Space Marine Biker w/Chainsword: 3x Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun, Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun, Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [9 PL, 203pts]
. Biker Sergeant: Combi-plasma, Twin boltgun
. 3x Space Marine Biker w/Chainsword: 3x Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun, Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun, Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [9 PL, 203pts]
. Biker Sergeant: Combi-plasma, Twin boltgun
. 3x Space Marine Biker w/Chainsword: 3x Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun, Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun, Twin boltgun

General plan is to sit the Annihilators and Ven Dreads in my backfield. Deep strike the aggressors with the RG stratagem to either cap objectives or gun down screening units. The captain sticks with the bikes and they go wherever they’re needed. Option is there to combat squad them probably into chainswords and plasma. Have the plasma harass and cap and the swords tarpit stuff. As for the librarians at the moment I’m thinking they’ll probably be taking psychic fortress and null zone in most every situation. None of the other powers really jump out at me. So they’ll either be protecting the bikes from smite or doing suicide runs on Morty and Rowboat Girlyman with null zone.

Only models I don’t currently have are the aggressors. Also the Annihilators are dark angels green biggrin.png.

So my questions for you guys other than a general critique of the list;

Firstly as I understand it I get a free relic. What relic would fit here and who would I give it to?

I need to chose a warlord. Who do you reckon it should be and what trait would fit?

With combat squading the bikes, when do I decide to do it? Do I have to declare before the start of deployment that they are going to? And do the bikes then count as two deployments for purposes of deployment order and first turn?


Edited by Ipsen, 22 November 2017 - 07:51 PM.

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#2
TrueRevanchist

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Ok. I would do the Captain as your warlord, with the Teeth of Terra relic. Use the Raven Guard Warlord Trait. The bike squads do count as 2 drops when combat squad-ed, and must be declared before they are deployed. Over all, I think the list is solid.


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#3
Cocha

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Interesting, if you have any spare points I'd put a power weapon on the captain, you know just in case.

 

Remember that if you need to combat squad you can spend 2 CP during the game to split a single squad!


Iron Hands: W: 2 D: 0 L: 1

Heresy Iron Hands: W:6 D:0 L:0

Orks: W:1 D:1 L:1

Grey Knighs: W:0 D:0 L:0

 

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#4
Ipsen

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Ok. I would do the Captain as your warlord, with the Teeth of Terra relic. Use the Raven Guard Warlord Trait. The bike squads do count as 2 drops when combat squad-ed, and must be declared before they are deployed. Over all, I think the list is solid.

 

Hmm.. the chainsword relic and immunity to overwatch on the captain you reckon? Could be useful if say i needed to charge some flamers or maybe for sniping a devastator squad or heavy weapons team. Though I feel like using him that aggressively might mean i end up giving away slay the warlord a bit too cheaply as I wouldn't really have anything that could adequately support him in close combat. I am leaning towards the captain as warlord as his save would make him much harder to kill than the librarians who lack an invulnerable save. Maybe storm of fire and the bolter relic as hes probably going to be spending his time buffing the bikes anyway.

 

Another thought was to give one of the librarians the armour indomitus relic in games where i want to charge them in with null zone. Try and get a second turn out of one of them rather than both immediately dying.

 

And to the last point you say combat squading must be declared before they are deployed but is that just before they are deployed or before anything is deployed? Could I place some of my other units and then afterwards declare the bikes are deploying in two groups?

 

Interesting, if you have any spare points I'd put a power weapon on the captain, you know just in case.

 

Remember that if you need to combat squad you can spend 2 CP during the game to split a single squad!

 

I could take the stormbolters off the annihilators and give him a power sword. They are less likely to use them sat at the back and it would allow him to take the power sword relic for that -5 ap. As above though I don't think he'll likely be charging in against anything that would require that ap all on his lonesome. The bikers are unlikely to be much help and the aggressors with their 4 inch move are unlikely to get there.

 

Isn't tactical flexibility only 1 ap or has it changed? Though this list only has 5 cp. With 2 potentially earmarked for strike from the shadows, against anything other than maybe orcs or a force with a lot of deepstrike, I'm likely to only have 3 cp left. Wisdom of the ancients and command rerolls are likely to chew through those with ease. In fact I'm probably going to be using wisdom of the ancients nigh on every single turn I can. I'll certainly keep it in mind though.


Edited by Ipsen, 24 November 2017 - 08:55 PM.


#5
Cocha

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I could take the stormbolters off the annihilators and give him a power sword. They are less likely to use them sat at the back and it would allow him to take the power sword relic for that -5 ap. As above though I don't think he'll likely be charging in against anything that would require that ap all on his lonesome. The bikers are unlikely to be much help and the aggressors with their 4 inch move are unlikely to get there.

 

Isn't tactical flexibility only 1 ap or has it changed? Though this list only has 5 cp. With 2 potentially earmarked for strike from the shadows, against anything other than maybe orcs or a force with a lot of deepstrike, I'm likely to only have 3 cp left. Wisdom of the ancients and command rerolls are likely to chew through those with ease. In fact I'm probably going to be using wisdom of the ancients nigh on every single turn I can. I'll certainly keep it in mind though.

 

 

Yes why not... Or you could leave the chainsword and use Teeth of Terra relic :)

 

For Tactical Flexibility you're right, I went by memory and doubled its cost sorry, it is only 1 CP.


Iron Hands: W: 2 D: 0 L: 1

Heresy Iron Hands: W:6 D:0 L:0

Orks: W:1 D:1 L:1

Grey Knighs: W:0 D:0 L:0

 

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#6
Ipsen

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So played a few games against a mixed force of death guard and demons featuring mortarion. I managed to win all 3 games though one of them came down to a single victory point.

I just want to say this... mortarion is insanely hard to kill. Dropping cp for rerolls on the psychic test let me get null zone off fairly reliably but even then all 12 Lascannons just don’t seem to be enough. In the closest game I didn’t manage to bring him down till turn 3 in which time he manage to personally eviscerate 3 aggressors, 13 bikes and one librarian. If we had had a piece of terrain big enough to hide Morty behind I doubt I’d have been able to kill him at all.

Afterwards I did some math. Unless I made a mistake the average damage those 12 Lascannons with reroll ones could do to Morty was just shy of 8 wounds. With null zone on this increased to just over 13. He has 18 wounds...
edit: with the hkms it 9 and 15 wounds. Though only for one turn.

Thankfully, other than Morty, the rest of the force didn’t seem to pack much of a punch. The horror things and sorcerers were pretty easy to kite with smite only having an 18 inch range and all of his small arms fire just bouncing off the toughness 5 bikes. Admittedly the aggressors only made it to turn 2 once but they soaked a lot doing it. The hellbrute managed to kill a librarian in one game but I don’t remember it managing anything else of note, maybe a chain sword bike or two.

As for warlord and relics, storm of fire on the captain and the Armour Indomitus on a librarian definitely seems the way to go. The armour made a huge difference to the survivability of the librarian wearing it and every time I put the captain in combat he pretty much immediately paid for it. He’d just be surrounded and charged by something much nastier than he was. Against a different force the ability to negate overwatch might be more useful, but it just wasn’t in these games.

See how it does against Ultramarines.

Edited by Ipsen, 29 November 2017 - 12:39 PM.


#7
Claws and Effect

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Disallowing overwatch works better if there is something else that can follow him into combat.

Once he's stuck in with a unit they can't overwatch anymore and the next unit in gets a free pass.

#8
SyNidus

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I like your list, very interesting indeed.

 

As for the Relic and Warlord trait, i'd go for the Teeth of Terra and Nullifying Overwatch with your Captain. Make him a Chapter Master.

 

I've got a few suggestions though that could open up some tactical options for you.

- Drop the Venerable Dreads because even if you're going for the long range loadout, you're paying points for an improved WS which you will never use. Instead, get 1 more Predator so you can utilise the Kill-Shot stratagem. This is useful for taking down big targets like magnus and mortarion. By doing this, you can split 1 of the Librarians and the 3 Predators into a Spearhead detachment so you can get an extra CP.

- If you really want, you can keep one of the Ven dreads so you can group it with the Aggressors in the vanguard detachment. Also you might want to check the points costs for your aggressors. They got cheaper in the new Chapter Approved.

If you've got any extra points, consider a scout squad or two, perhaps even some jump packs because you're going to really hurt if your opponent puts an objective marker at the top of a building and your bikes can't get up there.


raven-guard-sig1.jpg
 


#9
Ipsen

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Hmm... some good points. I got 36 points from chapter approved which I'm currently thinking to replace the librarians stormbolters with combi-meltas. Given how I've been using them they should get some use out of the close range melta shots.

 

The extra cp is tempting but in all the games I've played so far the ven dreads have more than paid for themselves. There is usually some distance between the bikes and the tanks. Without dedicated screening units something got to the preds in every game. Ven dreads are there to protect the backline from cq threats.

 

As for that last point... crap. That had not occurred to me. I'm pretty sure the people I play against read this forum and I can now imagine what is going to happen in my next game...

 

Yeah first thought is some vanguard vets or assault marines. Gonna have to give it some thought. Suggestions welcome.


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#10
Claws and Effect

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Vanguard. 

 

2 attacks base, and have a wider range of weapons available than assault squads. 

 

Loadout depends on what you want their role to be. Hammers with at least a couple storm shields in the squad if you want them to go after hard targets. Plasma pistols for the guys without shields. Remember you can decide where the wounds go, so you can tank with the shield guys. If you want to keep them cheap I'd go 2x chainsword/shield and 3x hammer/plasma. The shield guys are going to die first, so you don't want the expensive weapons on them. 

 

Dual claws for everyone if you want them to shred infantry. 



#11
SyNidus

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Vanguard vets for sure. Claws & Effect has given good advice on that loadout.

 

And i appreciate your decision to stick with your choices, you know how you want your army to work and the roles each part plays. Glad to hear you're getting good mileage out of the Ven dreads!

 

Overall i do like your army, it's something i've thought of running before. How does it perform? What have you found to be it's strengths and weaknesses?


raven-guard-sig1.jpg
 





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