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Chapter Approved Pertaining to Thousand Sons

- - - - - chapter approved tzeentch thousand sons warlord traits strategem

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#1
Prot

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So with the pre-order around the corner, this is a conversation about the upcoming Chapter Approved changes specifically. (Please no codex wishlisting here, we've got a topic for that.)

 

Very little basic rules changes seem to be coming that we didn't know/suspect. Stuff like Boots on the Ground ; unfortunately this takes away from the usefulness of the Heldrake a little more... and I do use it. And Objective Secured, which I think is great for Tzaangor players like myself.

 

Interestingly enough they do mention lots of point decreases, an where they seem to indicate most increases is with anything you've seen in an Imperium HQ tournament slot. (Celestine,Guilliman, Cawl). Of course Maelific Lords got smashed with an increase due to abuse. But they do mention Chaos reductions. Nothing concrete yet for Thousand Sons in particular.

 

There's "build your own Landraider" with Reaper Autocannons, but it will be allowable only in open play.

 

This is a rumour I can't confirm on points changes we -may- use:

Chaos Space Marines

  1. Force Axe 10
  2. Force Stave 8
  3. Force Sword 8
  4. Helbrute Fist single/pair 40/50
  5. Predator Autocannon 40

 

 

Thousand Sons:

  1. Warlord Trait: Re-roll Deny Witch Tests
  2. Relic: rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
  3. Psychic Power: Warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18″ and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
  4. Stratagems: 1CP If within 6″ of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

I'll add/ edit as more 'truth' comes out! Please feel free to add, or comment, but please keep it to Chapter Approved and not codex wish-listing.


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#2
Charlo

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That last one is really cool for Magnus' super smite.

 

Everyone, lend me your energy!



#3
Archaeinox

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I am ok with a 40pt predator autocannon. I use mine a LOT and the drop in points would mean the difference between an extra Warpflamer or no extra Warpflamer, or a Havoc Launcher on top depending on someone's spare points obviously.

 

Since the rep confirmed the psychic power over the phone with me Monday, I am indeed inclined to believe the other 3 parts of that original rumor are true. Not a fan of the warlord trait, BUT I am pretty confident that we don't just have 1 of each of those items. 

 

I do agree that the usefulness of the warlord trait is dependent upon opponent but there's a few TS players, especially on FB, who forget that you can choose traits before you play.

 

I am excited to see more info. Also, as the T.O. for my store, very excited to find out more about Matched Play. Most of my guys and gals want to use anything in C.A. anyway, so....

 

Re: the stratagem, I don't care that it requires 2 OTHER psykers (if that is even the wording exactly) but the most important thing to me is that the psyker gets the benefit for the entire psychic phase and not just 1 power. THAT would make it garbage and no different than just using a command reroll to ensure a 1 turns to something higher, for example.......... Make sense?


Edited by Archaeinox, 23 November 2017 - 04:39 PM.

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#4
Nym

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The rumored point changes are really welcome, especially the Force weapons.

 

I built all my Exalted sorcerers with a Force Sword in hand already, but my squad leaders still had Staves and converting all of them to swords would have been annoying. Now at least I can play them as Staves.



#5
Sonoftherubric21

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Chaos Sorcerer in Terminator armor down to 120 as well.  

I would presume these will be in our dex. Makes for a far cheaper one to with cheaper sword/axe/stave. 130 compared to almost 160. 

 

Assuming this is all true it brings a 10 man Rubricae squad to 222 if using a stave. 

It also brings Scarab Occult with full load out for 5 man to 255 points, (soul reaper being 15, stave for sarge being 8)

We have shaved off quite a few points considering....not terrible. 


Edited by Sonoftherubric21, 23 November 2017 - 08:10 PM.


#6
Prot

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That last one is really cool for Magnus' super smite.

Everyone, lend me your energy!

What’s funny about that is it’s incredibly fluffy. There’s a moment in the Magnus book ( I think) where Magnus desperately needs more Psychic energy, and he reaches out and finds Ahriman, describing his power as dim, but much more than the other Psykers and it puts Magnus over the top in the scene. I honestly can’t remember what he was trying to do...probably blowing out candles on a birthday cake or something.

These point reductions are important because it signifies they are seeing codex creep as something that hurts standard pointed index armies. But now that I got a whiff of what they are doing to Imperium, I *really* hope no one wins a tournament handidly with Thousand Sons because no matter how lucky they may have got, I predict nerfs galore.

I’ve always played Thousand Sons for every aspect of the game. Painting, background, models, fiction... and I also really like all the units we have so if Tzaangors could be 2 points each, I’m cool with that, ( joking)

Very excited about the Strategem. Ahriman rolling with Exalted Sorcs feels cinematic, and deadly adding 3 to tests. DP’s and Magnus,the same, or perhaps his Rehati War Sect is back with disk Sorcs!

Just the thing is I find I hardly use codex strats. Unless playing a cheap army I usually only have 6, maybe 7 Cp’s. It kind of sucks because I always have to save them for perils.

Edited by Prot, 23 November 2017 - 10:03 PM.

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#7
BoomWolf

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Well, I already stated my opinion on the relic/trait/power (they suck) and the stratagem (seemingly good, but not that good as reroll strat achieve almost the same result)

 

HOWEVER, the point costs are a welcome change, especially as we can't really avoid some of them.

 

Force weapons going down 4/6 point each means our squads drop 4/6 point each. does not seem like much, but it adds up quickly. between rubric and SoT squads, that's shaving a bare minimum of 18 point per list, mostly 30 points, enough for an extra dude, and with our dudes an extra one matters.

Coupled by the fact most of us use the CSM prices for soulreaper and rubric squads already, that's a significant point drop from the original index (no paying extra for asp sorcerer, 5 points less per soulreaper) and that would hopefully make it official.

 

IF SoT will match the rubrics in that you don't pay extra for the sorcerer, it would be awesome. that's another 17 points per squad. that's nearly a rubric by itself.



#8
Grendaxe

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They just confirmed on the twitch stream that TS are going to get that terrible roll 9 dice, 6 = MW power.

Yay........ dry.png



#9
Khannis

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How could they possibly think that that's remotely in line with Codex armies? Damn, if we can't modify or re-roll this, it's borderline unusable, unless you've spent every possible resource and just positively need that extra mortal wound

#10
Raven1

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It's hard to tell with out the codex, but leading with this power is a bit worrisome. I still think GW doesnt know what to do with TS.

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#11
Zodd1888

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I think TSons codex was probably done before DG but the units weren't finished for a full release. This power will probably get FAQ'd to WC 6 or something if this is it. If not it's one hell of a dud.

If an Aspiring Sorcerer can cast it maybe that'll be okay?

#12
Raven1

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Leaked page with point changes

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#13
BoomWolf

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Well, to quickly sum up what we care about.

 

Exalted sorcerers equal to FAQ costs, no change. (nice to see they are importing FAQs into this though)

 

Jump pack sorcerer a tiny bit cheaper (2 points)

Terminator Sorcerer a nice point drop.

Vindicare cheaper

Defiler cost dropped MASSIVLY

Rumored force weapon recosts

Icon of Flamer costs half as much, still doubt I'll take it.

Double fist helbrute is now actually the cheapest variant.

 

Well, this is still not complete information, but its decent.



#14
Drudge Dreadnought

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Seems crazy that plague marines can be 17 points and rubrics still 18.



#15
Prot

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I’m genuinely shocked Scarab Occult Terminators never went down, and the soul reaper didn’t have a rule,adjustment.

Seems crazy that plague marines can be 17 points and rubrics still 18.


Agreed.

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#16
Archaeinox

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Definitely made some preliminary changes using some of the points adjustments and it helps me fit some stuff in I couldn't before so thats great.

 

(Also Prot go to Hall of Honor)


"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#17
Grendaxe

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Just seen the full point leaks and i don't think i will be picking up the book. It has more point adjustments on armies with codex's than armies without.
And i cant say i'm fan of the either the relic or psychic power. (Warlord trait is decent in some situations i guess).

 

Overall i'm just not very pleased with the way TS are playing. Just very basic and poor MW spammers with AP-2 bolters and not much else.

 

Guess i will have to keep waiting for the codex and hope for some creativity from GW side. 



#18
Archaeinox

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Get rekt

 

https://youtu.be/of1YcY39Yas?t=34m32s

 

lol @ that pitiful page

 

*twirls mustache* damn space wolves.... 


Edited by Archaeinox, 25 November 2017 - 12:46 PM.

"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#19
Realgone

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Get rekt

 

https://youtu.be/of1YcY39Yas?t=34m32s

 

lol @ that pitiful page

 

*twirls mustache* damn space wolves.... 

 

This is a bit disappointing, guess the play test team tested it on a friday at a quarter to five. ;)



#20
Archaeinox

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Yeah, lol. Some folks are saying the video got taken down. I can't check.


"You're a wizard, Ahri"

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#21
Prot

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Yes the video is down.

 

I'm not going to say too much until I see it. But not getting a good vibe from this so far. (And I mean as far as the armies I play, but I'm still looking forward to the additional play types, etc.)


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#22
Archaeinox

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I saw pages with the missions and even the eternal war ones look sick


"You're a wizard, Ahri"

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#23
Sonoftherubric21

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The strategem is "decent" not great. 

The power is mehhhhh. 

the warlord trait is great against specific armies and you choose pre deployment so you will know what army your opponent has so its pretty good. 

The scrolls are.....Well they are free and a relic that I can toss onto an exalted so I am not to miffed. 

 

Had some points drops, and with enough nickles and dimes we can actually afford some more stuff.... So I guess I cant complain to much, eagerly awaiting an ACTUAL dex. 

Side note; why no addendum for us saying "hey you can use vets of the long war and a couple other tzeentch strategems"??? 



#24
BoomWolf

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Saying the power is mehhhh is drastically overselling it.

I honestly can't see a situation I'd ever pick it. freaking GAZE is far superior, and I never even bother picking that one up.

 

 

I see no point picking this up.

My other army (tau) isn't on there at all, and the TS sections can be cut out and it would remain the same as far as I care, I would still never take an actual TS detachment, rather tzeentch ones (to get horrors without heralds) and alpha legion (for stealthy rubrics, and CSM access.)



#25
Jorin Helm-splitter

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Seems crazy that plague marines can be 17 points and rubrics still 18.

 

They have a chapter tactic and we don't. Its possible that they see whatever chapter tactic we have of helping the unit that much. It could also be the pace that they have set, the second generals handbook was a lot better than the first.

 

Just seen the full point leaks and i don't think i will be picking up the book. It has more point adjustments on armies with codex's than armies without.
And i cant say i'm fan of the either the relic or psychic power. (Warlord trait is decent in some situations i guess).

 

Overall i'm just not very pleased with the way TS are playing. Just very basic and poor MW spammers with AP-2 bolters and not much else.

 

Guess i will have to keep waiting for the codex and hope for some creativity from GW side. 

 

I actually like the focus on existing codex. It censored.gif that some of the index armies are so bad but simply getting a good fraction  bonus can provide a big buff, the existing codex are for better or worse stuck.