Chapter Approved

[Nemerax]

A friend of mine send me a leak and the Malefic Lord really gonna cost 80 points which totally overpriced him. Furthermore, nothing of our units then the cultist that go down to 4 points, but stay at a max of 30 instead of 40 per unit, goes down in points. There will be made a difference of the special weapon cost depending on BS, but that affects every faction in the same way. Our Power Fists go down to 8 points. The rest stays the same. Militia Squad still at 4 points, no idea if they get changed profiles though. I hope they do. Otherwise I see no other option then play my Renegades as standard Astra Militarum if I look at stuff like their 3 special weapons veterans, primaris psykers or the crusaders. Not mention all the other cool stuff and no restrictions just to stay competitive. What do you guys think?

Edited November 25, 2017 by Nemerax

[Plaguecaster]

Yeah I thought FW were bad but GW are even worse at screwing over Renegades :(

It's like they are trying to force those with Renegades to play as Guard instead since they have the far superior rules and units

[UlsanGamer]

Just watched Ash Barkers review of the chapter approved book.. about 37min 26sec in you can see the updates.

 

An interesting thing is it lists new weapon prices for weapons.

 

Meltaguns for example are cheaper for models with bs4+

And a more expensive price for other bs.

 

Considering that there is no unit that can buy a meltagun which has bs4+ and that it's ridiculous to charge more in the case of a bs5+. I think we can assume there will be an errata this week allowing bs4+ militia..... or they're just messing with us.

[Nemerax]

I think with the BS4+ they mean any unit with BS4+ or worse to balance out those with good BS hitting more often. I think it is supposed to stop spamming veteran squads with cheap plasmas for example.

[UlsanGamer]

If that's what it turns out to be, then I would qualify it as "messing with us" haha.

[Nemerax]

Yep and interesting is that Conscripts went up from 3 to 4 points each, but the Infantry Squad stays at 4. What is the advantage of Conscripts now?

If you look at everything it does not say screw Chaos (We are already screwed enough), but screw FW. Just take a look at the Children of the Warp. They became ridiculously expensive. Aetaos'rau'keres from 700 to 1500 points. Basically a Scout Titan.

My Zarakynel from 460 to 666. I am getting the joke, GW. 6 is the holy number of Slaanesh...

[Stross]

Well, I just stick with cultists now. Mutants can't take brutal assault, so they are useless. Militia is twice useless. I probably just put many Renegade commanders since Malefic is just to expensive and use Psyker Coven for psy, this is a lot cheeper. 

[Akrim]

Psyker Coven for psy, this is a lot cheeper.

How so? Psyker Covens are 100pts.Though it is a reliable way to do Unnatural Vigour without commiting psyker suicide.

 

Fully expecting Enforcers to get nerfed any day now.

[Stross]

How so? Psyker Covens are 100pts.Though it is a reliable way to do Unnatural Vigour without commiting psyker suicide. 

 

You can cast big Smite on 3D6 at least 5 turns. You got 5 models im 5++ invulnarable instead of one with 4++. But they don't have keyword character, which is bad. 

 

Well,  I hope they leave Enforces alone. I love them how they are. Especially in army list with poxwalkers.

[Hand_of_Than]

Dark times. They increased the cost of our best units...badly. Cultists got discounted and now we dont have to pretend that militia and mutants are comparable options anymore.

 

-Malefic Lord to 80, compare that to a 38 point Primaris Psyker or 88 point Space Marine Librarian....yeah we get the message.

-Static artillery up between 20 to 35 points per gun. So Basilisk is the best option for heavy artillery being cheapest and mobile.

-Disciple and Marauder plasma and meltaguns up in points, did we need this too?

-As written R&H are still using the worse Index version of Leman Russes, that dont shoot twice with "grinding advance".

 

Makes me wonder the reasons behind these changes. Are they really this incompetent? Like the guy who changed FW unit point costs had no idea what similar units cost in GW....cant be. So it must be purposeful, I am betting they are trying to channel sales from FW(resin) to GW(plastic) by making sure that similar FW are not too tempting.

 

R&H, Ruined & Hopeless ?

 

 

[Stross]

Makes me wonder the reasons behind these changes. Are they really this incompetent? Like the guy who changed FW unit point costs had no idea what similar units cost in GW....cant be. So it must be purposeful, I am betting they are trying to channel sales from FW(resin) to GW(plastic) by making sure that similar FW are not too tempting.

 

The logic is simple. 

Forge world? Don't have direct version in normal codexes? Rise up. 

Because Leman Russ FW got discount for example. 

They consider FW like Apocalypse models, except Elyzium, Krieg and R&H. 

But they didn't chage anything about Machiriuses or Malcadors, which is strange. 

 

 

-As written R&H are still using the worse Index version of Leman Russes, that dont shoot twice with "grinding advance".

No, the last FAQ said we can. Leman Russ have newest version in codex. In their rules sheet said "grinding advance, page "whatever"". So we can use it. Like BaneBlade's 3D6 shoots. And I didn't hear any opposition against it. 

 

 

-Disciple and Marauder plasma and meltaguns up in points, did we need this too?

I just use marauders for sniper rifles, this is their main purprose for me. 

 

 

R&H, Ruined & Hopeless ?

I think not. But against codex army just as R&H it is not that good. Like any index army without any stratagems, artifacts, trates and something like that. 

But recently I take Typhus and Poxwalkers with me. It work perfectly well, since Enforcers execute more of our troops and add them into zombie mob. 

And tank army it is still a tank army. It is good. 

[Akrim]

Yeah the Russes get the Astra grinding advance now (no move double shoot)...

Enforcers and big squads is about the only big strength of Renegades at the moment.

 

Some good options in the superheavy department too.

[Stross]

 

 

(no move double shoot)... 

no, you can move on the half of its movement and it still keep double shooting

[Nemerax]

Can we use the Cultists and Tide of Traitors. Probably not, because they are out of the CSM Codex?

[Stross]

Can we use the Cultists and Tide of Traitors. Probably not, because they are out of the CSM Codex?

 

Yeah, sadly. But we can take patrol detachment of them. I was thinking already about taking them with Black legion and drop them with Abaddon afterwards, creating real trouble for enemy, so he can be distracted from our tanks.

Not saying that we can make Abaddon our Warlord and receive 2 CP since our own Covenants a bit suck

Edited November 27, 2017 by Stross

[Akrim]

 

 

(no move double shoot)...

no, you can move on the half of its movement and it still keep double shooting

Statement made pre-coffee, you are correct.

 

As far as i read you can only use Tide of Traitors (or any csm strategems) if your army includes a Chaos Space Marine detachment. Without that i dont think it would be permitted,

Edited November 27, 2017 by Akrim

[Stross]

As far as i read you can only use Tide of Traitors (or any csm strategems) if your army includes a Chaos Space Marine detachment. Without that i dont think it would be permitted, 

 

Yes, but in my suggestion Abby + 40 cultists is a Patrol Detachment, so this is battleforged. 

[Azekai]

Maybe this is heretical, but I am not sure my group will even use Chapter Approved (many of us like our FW units and superheavies, thank you!). I certainly don't see the sense in buying an optional set of rules that straight-up invalidates a lot of perfectly fine options.

 

[Stross]

It is not heretical if you play with your friends or people, who don't mind such things. 

[Goreshed]

Just another reason why I am going back to doing count as using the IG rules. And I'm ok with that, I started my traitor guard as a armoured company back from the original chapter approved and white dwarf articles and I'll simply go back to those roots. 8th edition really changed how many of us play other armies as well and we just need to adapt to the times.

[Syrakul]

I'm still hopeful that FW will update the first terrible faq (didn't fix 6" autopistols and the like) and just make militia the same BS/WS as guard, maybe bump the armor to 5+ too. It would make the poor wording on the 4+ BS special cost and the 'all other BS is more' rule make sense.

 

Since the AM Codex I've run my army as Valhallans twice now for the reliable tanks and stubborn infantry and it worked nicely. I'm miffed that GW has totally botched Renegades (and I agree, feels like on purpose to deter towards more supported lines)

 

I feel the Special weapon costs are fine and still worth it on Marauders, thank god those didn't get the nerfbat. the [Plaspistol+2 plasmaguns]*2 in a Chimera is still a nice combo

[Stross]

I feel the Special weapon costs are fine and still worth it on Marauders, thank god those didn't get the nerfbat. the [Plaspistol+2 plasmaguns]*2 in a Chimera is still a nice combo

 

hm... you convice me to create not only sniper marauders.

[Syrakul]

Just another reason why I am going back to doing count as using the IG rules. And I'm ok with that, I started my traitor guard as a armoured company back from the original chapter approved and white dwarf articles and I'll simply go back to those roots. 8th edition really changed how many of us play other armies as well and we just need to adapt to the times.

Yep the rules for Renegades or lost and the damned have always felt tacked on or experimental... the joke being that GWs stance towards supporting armies is a reflection of their theme (see bitter Chaos players and their ancient model lines, just like the Bitter traitors and their ancient gear and armor marks!)

For Renegades its as if the untrained and disorganized Chaos uprisings are prone to syntax errors and incorrect or hasty rules!

 

About yor original point, playing as straight IG always made the most sense, save for some things like hounds or spawn.

 

What doctrine are you planning on using for your IG?

[Stross]

It is too bad that we can't run Cultists as Conscripts or Guardsmen. No lasgun on them

[Syrakul]

It is too bad that we can't run Cultists as Conscripts or Guardsmen. No lasgun on them

But it is a good thing that lasguns and autoguns are functionally identical in-game, so anyone complaining are showing poor gamemanship.

Also the armor level present on cultists is less or negligible compared to cadians, but again looking at catachan with their 5+ tank tops, renders that point moot from a wysiwyg standpoint.