Feedback to GW

[Gentlemanloser]

I'll try to keep this OP updated, and forge a response from all our comments.

 

Perhaps the best feedback would be to go through unit by unit.

 

Lord Kaldor Draigo.

Draigo could probably use a 10 point drop, particularly in comparison to Azrael who sits at 180 pts (same re-roll aura, but also a 4++ inv to units within 6 inches) and is only slightly worse in combat and does not have a storm shield or psychic powers. Unlike other Chapter leaders, he does not grant any extra CP. It's very hard for GK to reach the amount of CP other armies can easily generate. Draigo could benefit from providing 2+ CP.

 

Grand Master Voldus.

 

Grand Master.

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight.

 

Castellan Crowe.

Crowe lacks the Sword Stances that regular Brotherhood Champions have. And with the loss of Rending his close combat prowess is very weak.

 

Brother Captain Stern.

 

Brother Captain.

 

Librarian.

Can you confirm if a GK Index Librarian is able to take a Storm Shield. As the Codex datasheet does not have a Storm Bolter and the Index has no option to purchase one. The Librarian should also lose the Rites of Banishment special rule and have a full powered Smite.

 

Techmarine.

The GK Techmarine is forced into purchasing two Servo Arms, a plasma cutter and flamer. Making him vastly more expensive than his Space Marine counterparts. At base he is 136 points. While a base Space Marine Techmarine is 62. Even without wargear the GK is 91 points while the Space Marine only 45. This is just over a 100% cost increase.

 

Chaplain.

 

Brotherhood Champion.

 

Terminator Squad.

GK Terminators sit in a tough place right now. One point adjustments cannot fix. The Strike Squad is the better choice for a Troop unit. While Paladin are a better choice for a tough Elite unit. GK Terminators are simply a unit that is a clone of the Paladin Unit. But worse in every category. They also have a lower Leadership score than every other Imperial Terminator unit.

 

Strike Squad.

 

Apothecary.

 

Brotherhood Ancient.

 

Paladin Squad.

 

Paladin Ancient.

a Paladin Ancient is severely overcosted at 140 points, especially in comparison to an apothecary with hammer, which is better in almost every way for nearly 40 pts less.

 

Purifier Squad.

Purifiers suffer from being little more than a clone of the Strike Squad unit. They need to be a distinct choice in thier own right. If they are to remain the CC specialist they were, at the least they require thier 2 Attacks back. Cleansing Flame is also underwhelming.

 

Dreadnought.

 

Venerable Dreadnought.

 

Servitors.

 

Interceptor Squad.

Interceptor Squads are an example of a unit this is similar to another, the Strike Squad, but distinct enough to be a viable choice in thier own right. They don't have the FLY keyword and could benefit from such.

 

Purgation Squad.

Purgators suffer from being little more than a clone of the Strike Squad unit. They need to be a distinct choice in thier own right.

 

Nemesis Dreadknight.

The Nemesis Dreadknight is outclassed in all aspects by the Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight unit. This is another case of a GK unit being little more than a clone of another unit. And in this case worse in every aspect.

 

Land Raider.

 

Land Raider Crusader.

Landraiders absolutely need a drop in base cost, especially the Crusader, which will now be even more expensive due to the increasing cost of twin assault cannons and hurricane bolters. The lack of an invulnerable save and how quickly their movement degrades with damage really limits their viability in addition to high cost.

 

Land Raider Redeemer.

 

Razorback.

The recent CA adjustments seem to have taken Space Marine use into account, without considering how this would effect other armies. The prices of the Twin Assault Cannon Razorback are now 114 points. While the Twin Lascannon version is now 120. This 6 point difference makes the Twin AC version very undesirable especially as the Grey Knights lack access to long range high strength low AP shooting.

 

Rhino.

 

Stormhawk Interceptor.

 

Stormraven Gunship.

 

Stormtalon Gunship.

the Stormtalon has been indirectly nerfed by the increase in the twin assault cannon and could use at least a 10 point drop in its base cost. I hardly ever seen anyone take the Stormtalon or Stormhawk and with the stormraven increasing in cost it could be a nice to see other flyers on the board if they were a bit cheaper

 

 

Rites of Banishment

character models should have access to full smite. Draigo at 240 pts not being able to cast full smite while a 50 pt Primaris psyker can is absurd. It feels like we are already paying the points as if we had full smite and could cast all of our powers multiple times each psychic phase.

 

Psycannon

 

Psilencer

 

Incinerator

Edited November 28, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Grandmaster Rich]

I agree with framing our response around the poor internal balance of the codex rather than the external balance with other factions (though we could add some tournament data, particularly the breakdown of Warzone Atlanta in which GKs are the only army that you can expect to subtract from the average score due to the faction selected).  Data can be found here

 

 

I think you hit on the biggest offenders, but we definitely need to breakdown the dismal nature of our special weapons in comparison to their cost.  You would expect the unique weapons of a faction (and we don't have too many) to be worth taking, but in most cases they are better left at home. 

 

To the list above, I would add that a Paladin Ancient is severely overcosted at 140 points, especially in comparison to an apothecary with hammer, which is better in almost every way for nearly 40 pts less.  Landraiders absolutely need a drop in base cost, especially the Crusader, which will now be even more expensive due to the increasing cost of twin assault cannons and hurricane bolters.  The lack of an invulnerable save and how quickly their movement degrades with damage really limits their viability in addition to high cost.

 

Similarly, the Stormtalon has been indirectly nerfed by the increase in the twin assault cannon and could use at least a 10 point drop in its base cost.  I hardly ever seen anyone take the Stormtalon or Stormhawk and with the stormraven increasing in cost it could be a nice to see other flyers on the board if they were a bit cheaper (not having power of the machine spirit hurts their damage output as they will usually only be within the re-roll aura of Draigo or a GM for the first turn).

 

Lastly, Draigo could probably use a 10 point drop, particularly in comparison to Azrael who sits at 180 pts (same re-roll aura, but also a 4++ inv to units within 6 inches) and is only slightly worse in combat and does not have a storm shield or psychic powers.  Additionally our character models should have access to full smite.  Draigo at 240 pts not being able to cast full smite while a 50 pt Primaris psyker can is absurd.  It feels like we are already paying the points as if we had full smite and could cast all of our powers multiple times each psychic phase.  This not being the case, the GK really need significant points drops to many options and clearer demarcation between the power armored units and two terminator units with special rules (True Grit would be great for our terminators).

Edited November 27, 2017 by Grandmaster Rich

[Gentlemanloser]

I also think we need a nicely worded opening statement.

[Ishagu]

I don't know if GW will drop the units shared with other Imperium armies, but they seriously need to drop the infantry.

They've also over-estimated the value of psychic powers.

 

Look at a Primaris Intercesor. 2 wounds, 2 attacks Base, 30" range weapon with -1 AP. That's a good cost! Strikes shouldn't cost more because of a cc weapon they only get to swing once and miss/fail to wound with often.

[Danarc]

Draigo should grants 2 more CP to the army.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Danarc

[Holier Than Thou]

Feel free to include any of my suggestions from the other thread.

[Corvus Fortis]

In my, we should concentrate on internal balance and things that do not work at all. For example, Rites of Banishment is good and throwing mortal wounds from a deepstriking unit is powerful. Indeed, "normal" smite would be good for our characters but we do not suffer from lack of it. I really cannot state there is any kind of problem with Rites of Banishment that hurt us a lot. I'm just afraid if we ask for too much without statement why we need it will only annoy them.

 

So, ok, here is the list of issues that I see and possible suggestions.

 

Army Wide

 

1. Lack of Command Points

 

Grey Knights are an elite army which means a small amount of units in Grey Knight list. High point costs mean that we are unable to field a Brigade detachment in 2000 point games limiting Grey Knights with 7 CP at best. Unlike other armies Grey Knights do not have access to warlord traits or relics which return command points upon stratagem use. Considering that most important stratagems like Psybolt Ammunition, Psychic Onlaught and Heed the Prognosticars cost 2 CP, this limits Grey Knights to keep CP only for them making other nice but not critical ones, like Wisdom of Ancitents, not worthy enough to spend CP on.

Possible solution: Reduce cost of stratagems or give Grey Knights a way of returning them. 

 

2. Domina Liber Demonica

 

Domina Liber Demonica is a relic that reduce leadership of daemonic units close to the bearer. But, in fact, compared to other relics, it lacking effectiveness. Reduction of leadership characteristics by 1 means that during morale tests a daemon unit will loose 1 more model than usual. It also means that Grey Knight psychic power 'Pugre Soul' would kill one more model than usual. This makes Liber Demonica very situational Relic. Even in situations when it is useful, it has too low impact. Effect of Cuirass of Sacrifice, for example, will be triggered every time the bearer looses a wound which is a common situation against any army. Or lets look at a situation where a model with Fury of Deimos shoot a unit of Pink Horrors. In perfect conditions, bearer is in Rapid-Fire range, all rolls for hit and wound are successful and no saving throws taken. This will deal 6 wounds. This is three times more wounds than horrors would suffer from Liber Demonica if perfect conditions (bearer within 6'' from target, Purge Soul was cast). In other words, Liber Demonica is never worth taking compared to other Relics of Titan.

Possible Solutions: Change the way how Domina Liber Demonica affects daemonic units or return it old rule from 7th edition which allowed bearer to know one more psychic power.

 

Specific Units

 

1.Castellan Crowe

 

Lack of AP value on his weapon makes him struggle in close combat against units with high saving-throw characteristics and toughness. If medicore strenght of 4 can be mitigated by warlord trait or Hammerhand psychic power, no AP value seriously hurts his effectiveness. Compared to the Brotherhood champion, who has AP -3 base and ability to increase either to-wound roll result or invulnerable save result, Castellan Crowe is not an attractive choice.

Possible solutions: give Castellan Crowe a special rule that increases his AP value with certain conditions (for, exapmle all 6+ to-wound rolls are resolved with AP-3).

 

2.Terminator Squad

 

Terminator Squad is twice as more expensive as another troop choice - Grey Knight squad. Compared to 10-man Strike Sqaud, one 5-man Terminator Squad has twice less strombolter shots (20 compared to 40 at Rapid Fire range), same number of attacks and same number of wounds. Terminators has better saving-throw and invulnerable save, but with new AP rules this is not as critical as in previous edition. Terminators withstand small-arms fire better, but are much more vulnerable for multidamage weapons. Most importantly, to fulfill a battalion detachment requirements, more than twice more points needed to do it with Terminators than with Strike squads. Compared to Paladins, 5-man Terminator squad has 4 less attacks and 5 less wounds. The latter is critical against multidamage weapons, especially ones with 2 damage value. And difference between their costs is just 12 points. Both Strikes and Paladins are preferable to Terminators.

Possible solutions: reduce cost of Terminators to be less than twice more than Strike Squad. Give Paladins special distinctive rules.

 

3.Purifier Squad

 

Strike Squad is better than a Purifier squad in every possible way. Purifiers about 50% more expensive, cannot deepstrike without stratagems, cannot compete for objectives with other Troops, does not fulfill troop slot. Purifiers has higher leadership, which is rarely critical because of And They Shall know no Fear special rule. They also can take 1 more special weapon per 5 models, but this is situational too, because a force weapon exchange for special weapon. Finally, Purifying Flame - ability that makes Purifiers deal d6 mortal wounds with smite. In fact, because of range 3", Strikes Squad with Rites of banishment cand deal more mortal wounds per battle than a purifier squad. Purifiers can never cast Smite on turn 1, unless something charged them or came out of reserves near them.  But Strike Squad can. If Purifiers are in range of Smite on turn 2, they will deal 3-4 mortal wounds on average. After they kill their target, they will be most likely out of range again. It will take one or two more turns to get to another target. Strike Squad will most likely do one mortal wound on every turn. Now Purifiers are too similar to Strike Squads but cost more. Purifying Flame also not as good as it could seem.

Possible solutions: give Purifiers 1 more attack they had in last edition and possibly ability to cast to psychic powers a turn. Or increase the range of purifying flame at least to 6".

 

Weapons

 

1. Psycannon

 

Psycannon was a weapon effective against light vehicles in 7th edition because of how armor penetration worked. In 8th edition, however, it ceased to be anti-vehicle because most of them has 10+ wounds. With damage 1 it takes too much shots to destroy a vehicle.  It is also not very good against infantry - not enough shots to threaten numerous light infantry and too low AP to deal with heavy infantry. Compared to assault cannon, psycannon has 1 more strength, 2 less shots and only 2 points cheaper. 2 more shots is a very big difference, much better than +1 strength. Psycannon better only at wounding t7 and t12+ (which I've never seen in unit datasheets) than assault cannon. So Assault Cannon only 2 points more expensive than Psycannon but way better. And because of d3 damage a Psilencer became a better anti-vehicle weapon.

Possible solutions: increase damage characteristics of Psycannon to 2 to make it effective against light Vehicles again.

 

2. Heavy Incinerator

 

A powerful one but its cost is too high. Compared to Heavy Psycannon that always has 6 shots, heavy incinerator is more random but costs more too. And Gatling Psilencer is better by sheer cost.

Possible solution: reduce Heavy incinerator cost by 10 or 20 points.

[skarn]

All of this is good, but gw isnt going to rerelease the gk codex so soon, nor are they going to pyt 3 pages of errata for a single army in an faq.

 

What they may do however is change a single rule;ie, get rid of the single wound smite. All units have access to full smite, including d6 wounds if they roll high enough. Damage vs daemons that is less than 3 counts as 3. Bro captains double the range out to 36", making them a legit choice.

 

That single change would go a tremendously long way to making us viable as an army.

[Godeskian]

So just to be clear, is the intent to do the squeaky wheel thing? Whenever GW posts, we post, regular emails, that sort of thing? Because I'm game for that Edited November 28, 2017 by Godeskian

[Gentlemanloser]

I was thinking more of just a massive volume of fb posts / emails.

 

Will update OP in a bit.

 

Anyone want to have a crack at a nice opening statement?

 

Skarn, supposidly there is another balance pass in March. Hopefully we can get traction to get changes for then.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Plasmablasts]

Bit of mathematical pedantry: the GK Techmarine suffers from an over 100% cost increase, rather than an almost 50% increse.

 

I like the positive, constructive tone.

[Gentlemanloser]

Doh!

 

Fixed.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Corvus Fortis]

Chapter approved is going to be released every year like General Handbook. It will be released sooner than our new codex. And we even do not need a whole page of errata to fix our most important problems. A couple special rules here and there and mostly point cost revision will help us a lot. And even if they will fix even a part of this, this would be a great step foward.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Corvus Fortis

[the jeske]

yeah, by GW standards that is whole codex. Just compare the index and the codex. a few rules here and there is a new book in GW mind. hell for chaos they manged to re print the same books multiple times and call it new.

[Closet Skeleton]

Too many of the GK weapons just don't translated into 8th ed, they basically need to be completely re-written. They're just too confused rolls wise.

 

Psilencer: What is this gun for? It had d3 damage because it used to be force, which was never good design to start with. It has lots of shots at low strength and AP so it should be a horde killer but then it has multiple damage and not really that many shots in a storm bolter spamming army. Its really good at killing raveners which makes no sense but i suppose its good at killing bloodcrushers and screamers as well.

 

Something more like range 30, rapid fire 6, damage s4, ap0 always wounds non-vehicles on 4+. Gatling version can be heavy 20.

 

That gives you something that's better at killing infantry than a storm bolter while not just being a mundane gatling gun and can still overwhelm monsters with massed shots like in 7th ed but doesn't suddenly wreck tanks either.

 

Psycannon: Its good at killing monstrous creatures with a 4+ save, 6 wounds and t6, these just aren't common in 8th ed and are also good targets for incinerators. Since psilencers have stolen the infantry killer role these need to be good at killing monsters but also okay against tanks while not invalidating dreadnought and razorback lascannons.

 

Psycannons have lost all their identity. They used to be amazing because nothing else ignored invulnerable saves, now they're reaper autocannons. They're in the same place as Venom cannons which were junk in the index but unlike psycannons got completely renovated for the Codex.

 

To replicated the 3rd ed version my wishlist version would be range 24 heavy 2 does d3 mortal wounds per hit instead of damage. That's probably too good and makes the above psilencer redundant so;

 

heavy 3 2 damage ap -2 s7, does 1 mortal wound in addition on rolls of a 6+ to wound, +1 to wound rolls against psykers and daemons. Heavy version S8 heavy 4 3 damage, that puts it around predator autocannon power.

 

Incinerator: An assault heavy flamer is good, the +1 strength just don't mean much these days unlike in earlier editions but still has its place against t3 infantry and t6 monsters. It should probably just be priced at the same level as a normal heavy flamer.

 

Purgation Squad.
Purgators suffer from being little more than a clone of the Strike Squad unit. They need to be a distinct choice in thier own right.

Razorback.
The recent CA adjustments seem to have taken Space Marine use into account, without considering how this would effect other armies. The prices of the Twin Assault Cannon Razorback are now 114 points. While the Twin Lascannon version is now 120. This 6 point difference makes the Twin AC version very undesirable especially as the Grey Knights lack access to long range high strength low AP shooting.

 

Purgation squad isn't any more a clone than devastator squads are clones of tactical marines. The problem with Purgation squads is that the GK special weapons are bad.

 

Twin Assault cannon razorbacks being less needed than lascannons isn't an excuse for them to go back to being how undercosted they used to be. GK shouldn't need twin assault cannons because they have so many unique weapons that in theory fulfill the same roll, the problem is more that those unique weapons are bad.

 

1. Lack of Command Points

 

Grey Knights are an elite army which means a small amount of units in Grey Knight list. High point costs mean that we are unable to field a Brigade detachment in 2000 point games limiting Grey Knights with 7 CP at best. Unlike other armies Grey Knights do not have access to warlord traits or relics which return command points upon stratagem use. Considering that most important stratagems like Psybolt Ammunition, Psychic Onlaught and Heed the Prognosticars cost 2 CP, this limits Grey Knights to keep CP only for them making other nice but not critical ones, like Wisdom of Ancitents, not worthy enough to spend CP on.

Possible solution: Reduce cost of stratagems or give Grey Knights a way of returning them. 

 

 

GK have the same amount of command points as most marine armies and most armies can't get CP back (its just Guard, Tyranids, Eldar and Ultramarines and Eldar are terrible at it, Tyranids might as well not be able to and Guard don't need to). Marines can do a brigade while GK can't really but most marines don't and GK can do double battalion fine (it will just be a bit dull and is tied into Strike squads being the only really good thing in the GK book).

 

Psybolt ammunition being 2cp is too much compared to equivalents like veterans of the long war, Heed the Prognosticars would be too spammable at less than 2 cp but psybolt ammunition should be spammable..

 

 

[Gentlemanloser]

Just a quick response.

 

Purgation squads are a clone of strikes. Thier only difference is they can take 4 specials instead of 2.

 

And the specials aren't worth taking anyway.

 

Buff or special weapons and you *might* consider taking a purgation squad.

 

But most likely you'll just take 2 strike squads for CP.

 

Purgation squads need to be attractive in thier own right.

[Capt. Mytre]

Just a quick response.

 

Purgation squads are a clone of strikes. Thier only difference is they can take 4 specials instead of 2.

 

And the specials aren't worth taking anyway.

 

Buff or special weapons and you *might* consider taking a purgation squad.

 

But most likely you'll just take 2 strike squads for CP.

 

Purgation squads need to be attractive in thier own right.

 

Double the range of heavy weapons or give them BS +2.

 

I'd also like to see the <Brotherhood> traits added to the game, they are fluffy and useful rules:

 

1. The Swordbearers: Vehicles in this detachment gain a 5+ Invuln save. If they already have an invlun save, they gain +1 invuln save.

2. The Blades of Victory: Grey Knight units in this detachment can move D6" after DS (including GoI).

3. The Wardmakers: Grey Knight units in this detachment have a +2 Cast/Deny.

4. The Prescient Brethren: Each Grey Knight unit in this detachment can reroll 1 die per turn.

5. The Preservers: Grey Knight Apothecaries in this detachment are considered HQ choices and gain a 6" aura that grants a 5+ FNP to infantry. Only one Apothecary may be taken per detachment. Dreadnoughts gain "Unyielding Ancient" (6+ FNP). If they already have Unyielding Ancient, they gain a +1 to the Unyielding Ancient roll. Apothecaries from this detachment may attempt to heal Dreadnoughts at the end of each movement phase. Roll a dice, on a 2+, heal 1 wound. Roll again, each time increasing the roll required. They can either use this ability or heal a GK infantry unit, but not both.

6. The Rapiers: Grey Knight units in this detachment gain a +1 to hit after DS (including GoI). Servitors gain Teleport Strike and can be fielded as 20 man squads. Servitors lose Mindlock and receive Mindlock Array, granting them +4 WS and BS, LD9 and ignore moral phase losses as long as there is a total of 10 servitor models within a 6" bubble of the unit, including the unit itself. Servitors also gain this buff if there is a friendly Grey Knight Techmarine within 24".

7. The Exactors: Any friendly units with the "Imperium" key word gain 9LD if within 6" of a Grey Knight unit from this detachment. These allied units also each gain the ability to deny one power per turn.

8. The Silver Blades: Gain +1 to hit in the fight phase. Units in this detachment can Fall Back and shoot or charge in the same turn, but not both.

[Grandmaster Rich]

I posted this message on the WH40k Facebook page after several other Grey Knight players had posted personal messages:

 

"To the wonderful Warhammer Community staff,

 

I am hoping that you might pass along this message to the 40k game designers and balance testers.  I recently started playing 40k again after a long hiatus having first played the game in 3^rd edition until 5^th edition.  Grey Knights had always been my favorite faction in the lore and aesthetic and I had a sizable force of metal Grey Knight strike squads and terminators from when I played with the old Daemonhunters Codex.  To my delight, Grey Knights were now entirely in plastic!  Throughout the summer I purchased, built and painted an entirely new force of these beautiful plastic Grey Knights that stands at well over 4000 points at the moment with an entire airwing of Stormhawks, Stormtalons, and Stormravens (awesome models!). 

 

While the experience of building and painting has been a true joy, the Grey Knights have increasingly fared less well on the tabletop against both index armies and the other codexes in semi-competitive matched play pickup games, local tournaments, and league matches.  When I first heard about Chapter Approved I was excited for the prospect of the designers having a second look at the Grey Knights codex, which suffers from poor internal balance in stark contrast to the Astra Militarum, Tyranids, and Aeldari codexes and some bizarre points costs for certain units like Techmarines (which are 100% more expensive than their codex Space Marine counterparts).  However, having now seen the points adjustments for our faction—a single minor points decrease for terminators alongside increases for our most efficient aerial options and weapons—I feel that we have been almost entirely neglected.  While I am not a competitive tournament player (fortunately since Grey Knights have struggled to place well even with a Codex without allying in an IG brigade), I would love to be able to put Land Raiders, Purifiers, Techmarines, Terminators, Paladin Ancients, and other options into my lists without being completely run over by my opponents because I had too many points tied up in ineffective units that can never earn back their cost.  In addition, all of our special weapons—the unique options that Grey Knights players should want to take—are entirely lackluster and do not seem to have clear roles and are absurdly overcosted for what they do in-game.  And lastly, our command point situation is unenviable.  At most a 2,000 point Grey Knight army will have 5-7 command points, which is hardly enough to ever use our best stratagems, which are 2 and 3 CPs while saving a few for command point re-rolls.  This issue is compounded by the fact that we do not have a way to recycle command points like other imperial armies.  Perhaps the Domina Liber Daemonica could return used CPs on a 5+ as well since it is widely regarded as the worst relic in the game or Kaldor Draigo could grant battleforged Grey Knight armies an additional 2 CPs.

 

These are simply a few ideas, but there are threads on every major 40k forum in which disappointed Grey Knight players are offering feedback on the army and we would be grateful if some of it could be passed along to the balance team.  They have a difficult task looking at so many factions and moving pieces, but the Grey Knights are a clear example of a faction, which received few changes from the Index to the Codex and now Chapter Approved even though the army has been struggling to produce results. 

Thank you in advance"

[Grandmaster Rich]

Hey guys, the Warhammer Community folks responded to a number of the Grey Knight posts.  On one of the posts they said: "If you and the Grey Knights community have come up with some structured feedback we would love to receive it. Please send it on up to community@gwplc.com, and we'll see that it gets to the right people."

 

Let's try to get something well organized and well argued to them that focuses on the internal balance of the Codex.  We should emphasize the amount of games that we have played collectively with the Codex and especially on units that we would love to use if they filled a specific role effectively (i.e. we would buy more purifiers/techmarines/GKT/Land Raiders/special weapons if they were worth their points costs).

Edited November 28, 2017 by Grandmaster Rich

[Gentlemanloser]

I'll update op soon. Chemo kicking my arse today.

 

If any mod wants to have a crack feel free! :)

[Holier Than Thou]

I'll copy/paste the email I sent them tomorrow (sent it from my work email), I had put a bit of an explanation with my suggestions to give them some context.

[Danarc]

GReat! I’ll send the e-mail and I will ask to the italian community to send them too.

[Zombs]

Wait, is the dreadknight included in the updated list? That thing is utterly useless if the profile of heavy weapons doesn't change... and the fact that it loose effectiveness with wounds makes him an even worse choice compared to the GMNDK. Like seriously, what is the point of taking it?

[Soder]

I'm not too sure what the majority consensus was for GK primaris, 50/50? Personally I don't care for primaris, I'd much rather have GW address all the issues that have been raised in this forum. I imagined GW giving us access to primaris as a bandaid solution and wasn't too keen about it. Or do you guys think it would be a quick fix solution they could provide until a more permanent solution could be found to fix our army?

 

At codex launch our +1/+1 manifest/deny brotherhood bonus seemed amazing to me but has slowly turned lack lustre in my opinion. What if they could do something to bring back the nemesis strike force buff from 7th? Allow us to bypass the 50% deep strike rule. Would this be too overpowered in an edition that favours alpha strikes? Maybe keep the normal rule but allow our units to arrive within 6" instead of the 9"? 50% charge chance might be too high for an army wide buff? This would be in addition to the battleforged +1/+1 bonus. But giving us some sort of deepstrike buff I think would benefit us as well as be fluffy.

 

I dunno, just some food for thought..

But I completely agree with everything that's been said in these forums. If I had to only chose 3 major things that I think need to be addressed they would be:

1. Ranged Special weapons

2. More diversity/internal balance of units

3. Command points

Also points costs! Lol. But if they can fix units appropriately and make them worth the current points costs it's a non issue then.

[Waking Dreamer]

Wait, is the dreadknight included in the updated list? That thing is utterly useless if the profile of heavy weapons doesn't change... and the fact that it loose effectiveness with wounds makes him an even worse choice compared to the GMNDK. Like seriously, what is the point of taking it?

Technically, does it really matter since people are able to bring their NDK models to the table and utilise it to the best effect (as NDKGM)?

 

Sure, you could have a more cost effecient MELEE ONLY NDK...but with an army that already has Paladins, Paragons and WS2+ Apothecaries, is it needed? We need BS2+ platforms for our special weapons though, and NDKGM have that PLUS impressive Melee damage and the durability to deliver that damage! In a low model count army I'd want my expensive NDK model to be doing as much damage BOTH in the shooting and combat phase.