120 replies to this topic

[bluntblade]

I've forgotten this, and I'm confused

[Kelborn]

I remember Sim and Mikhal speaking about the WoL's introduction in Book 2 but did he really agreed on it?

As far as I know, he'd love to have them in one single book including a timeskip, etc.

 

And who is House Rackham? Never heard of it before.

[bluntblade]

Harbingers' allied House. Athrawes never quite got round to defining them except for "not samurai"

[Kelborn]

Now I got a dutch Knight House in mind, resembling the dutch colony of Dejima during the Edo period.

[simison]

I remember Sim and Mikhal speaking about the WoL's introduction in Book 2 but did he really agreed on it?

 

 

No, but it still irks me how he's the only Legion in the last third of the productions.

[bluntblade]

Now I got a dutch Knight House in mind, resembling the dutch colony of Dejima during the Edo period.

Please go on, I have no real ideas for them right now.

I still just find the WoL's lack of involvement stretches credibility, and I want to be able to use one of our real poster boy Legions.

[Kelborn]

I'll see what I can come up with.

Have to reread about Dejima, etc.

They were the ones, who brought guns, etc. to Japan, if I remember correctly.

Maybe a range focused Knight House, with a dutch colonial theme by having several small outposts and the likes. Maybe something focused on trade outposts, colonies and the likes.

 

They could also be linked to the Warbringers Star Lords (forgot their respective name).

Edited by Kelborn, 08 December 2017 - 03:55 PM.

[Sigismund229]

 

Now I got a dutch Knight House in mind, resembling the dutch colony of Dejima during the Edo period.

Please go on, I have no real ideas for them right now.

I still just find the WoL's lack of involvement stretches credibility, and I want to be able to use one of our real poster boy Legions.

 

The WoL do still do stuff, refugees, helping out the Nightguard. It's just they don't choose a side in the Insurrection until very late

[bluntblade]

I thought the Legions weren't meant to know.

And it's more just them watching the carnage unfold and still going "hmm, not sure who's in the right." Considering a murdered brother, etc. And that when in canon and BotL Legionaries have fought against their father, the only WoL who defy him go and just assist the Nightguard.

[Sigismund229]

I thought the Legions weren't meant to know.

And it's more just them watching the carnage unfold and still going "hmm, not sure who's in the right." Considering a murdered brother, etc. And that when in canon and BotL Legionaries have fought against their father, the only WoL who defy him go and just assist the Nightguard.

The legions don't know about the Nightguard. However, following the Blood Crusade especially but throughout the Insurrection more generally, the warp gets more violent, deamon incursions more frequent until finally, the Nightguard can't hold it back anymore. So they reveal themselves, reaching out for help. The only people who answer are the WoL. 

 

And I was under the impression that Gwal answers the Nightguard but then some of his sons defy him and go further, going to the Imperium's aid rather than just the Nightguard's

Edited by Sigismund229, 08 December 2017 - 05:21 PM.

[Doctor Perils]

House Rackham sounds like a House of Pirate Knights (like Rackham the Red from Tintin)

[MikhalLeNoir]

I thought the Legions weren't meant to know.
And it's more just them watching the carnage unfold and still going "hmm, not sure who's in the right." Considering a murdered brother, etc. And that when in canon and BotL Legionaries have fought against their father, the only WoL who defy him go and just assist the Nightguard.

The legions don't know about the Nightguard. However, following the Blood Crusade especially but throughout the Insurrection more generally, the warp gets more violent, deamon incursions more frequent until finally, the Nightguard can't hold it back anymore. So they reveal themselves, reaching out for help. The only people who answer are the WoL. 
 
And I was under the impression that Gwal answers the Nightguard but then some of his sons defy him and go further, going to the Imperium's aid rather than just the Nightguard's

That was the plan. Kylan did not actually defy Gwal. He was sent to aid the Nightguard and with him went the Scorpion and those who wanted to go. Gwal would not stop them.

[Kelborn]

I thought the Legions weren't meant to know.

And it's more just them watching the carnage unfold and still going "hmm, not sure who's in the right." Considering a murdered brother, etc. And that when in canon and BotL Legionaries have fought against their father, the only WoL who defy him go and just assist the Nightguard.

The legions don't know about the Nightguard. However, following the Blood Crusade especially but throughout the Insurrection more generally, the warp gets more violent, deamon incursions more frequent until finally, the Nightguard can't hold it back anymore. So they reveal themselves, reaching out for help. The only people who answer are the WoL.

And I was under the impression that Gwal answers the Nightguard but then some of his sons defy him and go further, going to the Imperium's aid rather than just the Nightguard's

Question
When is the Nightguard founded? Would a fight between them and the Bloodlords (on their way of becoming Khorne Daemonkin) be a thing?

Edited by Kelborn, 08 December 2017 - 06:11 PM.

[bluntblade]

I meant like way before the Blood Crusade.

[Sigismund229]

I meant like way before the Blood Crusade.

I'm confused. Which post are you referencing in which you meant way before the Blood Crusade?

 

And Kel, the Nightguard were founded when the Emps returned to Terra. So possibly. But it depends on the context and when, the Nightguard don't side with the loyalists+Suzerainty until Icarion's forces are clearly siding with Chaos

[bluntblade]

Well... the WoL don't act until then, right? So they sit and watch as the DoR and First Solar unfold.

[Kelborn]

Thanks, Sig.

 

As the Bloodlords are enjoying Chaos before Icarion truly does, they won't likely fight against the Nightguard. Or maybe as one of the first fights of them?

 

Well...wait and see.

[simison]

Well... the WoL don't act until then, right? So they sit and watch as the DoR and First Solar unfold.

 

Not even then. The Eagle Warriors strike against them on the DoR, so they bleed for it. I really want to reiterate that there are two entire trilogies of supplemental Legion rules between the Wardens of Light and the previous Legion. I think this is unwise, especially when we have an opportunity to introduce the WoL within their own element, protecting their area of space. 

 

Blunt also brings up a valid point that all Legions experience some kind of split, from a few companies to an entire Legion. How is it the WoL avoid this? 

[bluntblade]

I'm still waiting to see any iteration of Traitor Iron Hands and wonder if it could be done convincingly.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Same went for he dark angels and blood angels. Or space wolves and 1ksons.

But i had an idea. The lions are heavily damaged and flee to the caerbannog corridor and are thus not attacked. The wardens tell the traitors who follow the lions to lay their weapons down. When they do not listen they are attscked at full force. When the lions say the wardens should help them they refuse and only tell ( with sorrow from the commander) if they raise their weapons in the caerbannog corridor and attsck the rest of the traitors, the wardens would attack them.


Canon Gwal and Botl Gwal are not the same entity. And here the wardens believe in him as their is no figure full of hybris like Guaire was on canon. But also Gwal still seeking peace os not totally ghandi

Edited by MikhalLeNoir, 09 December 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[bluntblade]

Is Guaire really hubristic though, or does he just disagree with Gwal?

[MikhalLeNoir]

In canon it was Guaire who saved the legion from the Rangdan genocides, he rebuilt them and was so full of hin self that he was disapointed when he met Gwal. A figure who said they habe to talk with their enemies first. Cast away their swords as true peace and illumination can't be reached through arms alone. Guiare is so full of him self and is afraid thst Gwals way will sully the honor of his legion. He might see himself superior than his primarch. As he is a warrior and Gwal in his eyes a peaceloving fool. And most of the terrans follow Guaire.

In botl he was responsible for getting a bloody nose. Even worse he made mistakes and had to oay with his legs and arms/ hand and he himself became a pariah. In his eyes he lost his honor and it was Gwal who talked him back. Gave him a new purpose. He is most loyal to gwal.

Edited by MikhalLeNoir, 09 December 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[simison]

I'm still not healthy, but I'd like to bring this debate to a close. I say debate, but we've actually meandered away from the original question: what goes into mini-book 2C? 

 

Mikhal is the only one who has suggested a fourth option: a defensive battle between the WoL and Traitors, who are purusing a ragged CL force. I have one major issue with this scenario: location. Icarion explicitly pulls back the Traitor Legions to create his new empire centered on the Maelstrom. No Traitor force exists in Pacificus that would be in a position to either rout a CL detachment or to have the strength to challenge the WoL defenses without being insane. 

 

That still leaves the three other options: the Battle of Caelina, a subjugation campaign in Tempestus, or extend the Comnena Cluster into a two-parter.

 

I remain in favor of a Tempestus campaign. To expand upon the initial concept, the campaign will feature the largest rebellion in Tempestus, which actually places it near Caerbannog. This independent rebellion, in a move to collect resources and manpower, launches raids against refugee convoys. This prompts the WoL to intervene, Gwal himself lured into war to protect the innocent. The campaign reaches a climax as Hectarion and the CL arrive from Seg. Solar to help end the rebellion. 

 

Now, to prevent Expansion from ending on a high note for the Imperium, the minibook ends with Hectarion making a personal appeal to Gwalchavad to return to the Imperium. Gwalchavad refuses, and this places doubt on the Imperium's survival. This also gives us a chance to explore Gwal's wounds, both physical and emotional, and why the WoL remain neutral for a majority of the Insurrection.  

 

Regardless, does anyone want to make another suggestion? Or should we go ahead and vote for these four options?

[bluntblade]

Sim, your proposal sounds much better to me.

[Sigismund229]

I'd still prefer us to do the battle of Caelina.