Death Guard and daemons

[Plague _Lord]

Srry I'm having a bit od a conundrum here.

 

Can Deathguard daemons set up during deployment or can they only be summoned?

 

It's weird because a) Nurglings have and infiltration rule and b) why do people use poxwalkers over plaguebearers when plaguebearers seem superior for just 1 point more?

 

Also to have a battleforged army (and the 3 cp that go with it) do I have to put all my daemons in another detachment?

 

Cheers,

 

PL

[Closet Skeleton]

If you're playing matched play your army is battle forged. You lose Inexorable Advance if you mix DG and Daemons in a detachment but that's a different case.

 

Pox Walkers are better because of the mindless rule and a wider range of synergies. This may change with the daemons book.

[Shockmaster]

If you want your Daemons to start on the table without losing your bonus rules for your actual Death Guard units then you will need to put them in a separate detachment yes.

 

Alternatively if you just want one unit of Daemons in your list and have plenty of stratagem points then you can spend one point to add a Daemon unit using the Auxiliary Support Detachment.

 

I have used that in smaller point games to add a unit of Nurglings to my list against my opponents who I know have nasty deep strike plans that I need to thwart.

[Halandaar]

Can Deathguard daemons set up during deployment or can they only be summoned?

 

Anything you pay for during list creation follows normal deployment rules. So yes, you just plonk your Daemon units down on the table as normal. Summoning is a separate and completely optional thing where you don't buy the units during list creation and keep the points "spare" as reserve points, and use those points to pay for any unit you summon into the battle via Daemonic Ritual.

 

why do people use poxwalkers over plaguebearers when plaguebearers seem superior for just 1 point more?

 

You take Poxwalkers because;

• They aren't subject to morale, ever
• They can generate new models with melee kills
• You take Typhus, who (when within 7") boosts them with +1S/+1T and a 50% chance to do a mortal wound on anything they're in combat with
• You use Typhus to put Putrescent Vitality on them for another +1S/+1T
• They have the <Death Guard> keyword, so they don't break your detachment benefits (Inexorable Advance) like Plaguebearers do

 

Also to have a battleforged army (and the 3 cp that go with it) do I have to put all my daemons in another detachment?

 

You don't have to, no. The only requirement that detachments have is that all units in it must be from the same faction, and every single unit in the Death Guard Codex has at least one keyword in common with all the others: <Chaos>. So it's perfectly valid for you to mix and match Daemons and Astartes and call it a <Chaos> detachment to get your Command Points.

 

Bear in mind however that you won't gain the benefits of Inexorable Advance or Plaguehost if you do this, as they apply to <Death Guard> detachments only. You can work around this by, as you say, putting your Daemon units in a separate detachment. Alternatively (and going back to the beginning), you can choose not to buy any Daemon units and bring them in via summoning. If you do this, they aren't part of any detachment and so won't prevent your other units from gaining <Death Guard> specific detachment benefits.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

No reason not to put the daemons in a patrol detachment so as not to effect your main death guard force. If you are using the death guard codex we have No heralds so would need to be lead by a daemon prince or possibly any astartes hq

[Plague _Lord]

Thx for all the answers guys!

 

I was hoping that I could make a brigade using cheap nurglings as troops but I guess that won't happen :P

 

I guess I could go with a battalion of Deathguard and a battalion of daemons (cheap nurglings and a plaguebearers horde!) to try and rack up any CP I can get my hands on.

[Panzer]

Srry I'm having a bit od a conundrum here.

 

Can Deathguard daemons set up during deployment or can they only be summoned?

 

It's weird because a) Nurglings have and infiltration rule and why do people use poxwalkers over plaguebearers when plaguebearers seem superior for just 1 point more?

 

Also to have a battleforged army (and the 3 cp that go with it) do I have to put all my daemons in another detachment?

 

Cheers,

 

PL

Well there are no "Deathguard Daemons".

The daemons in the Deathguard codex are exactly the same as in the Daemon Index (and soon Codex). Without any exception. They are just included in the Codex so you have a quick reference for summoning.

You can deploy them regularly like any other unit, however you'd have to play them in a seperate detachment or you play a mixed Chaos/Nurgle detachment but then you'll be losing access to all your Deathguard specific stuff (relics, stratagems, armywide rule, etc.).

Or you decide to summon them of course. In that case you leave points for reinforcements in your list (not writing down any specific daemon unit etc) and then decide on the fly what kind of unit you want to summon depending on your summoning roll and reinforcement points you have left. Ignore the reinforcement points part for narrative and open play.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

So.... Sorry to cast 'Fleshy Abundance' on this topic but i am in need of advice!

 

I was surprised by the starter box for nurgle daemons today! All hail reinforcement from the plague father.

 

Now i need to intregrate them with my death guard. Im certain they will be a separate patrol detachment. However.....

 

Do i summon or start them on the table? And what sort of tactic would work?

 

For those who dont know the nurgle started has a herald, 10 plaguebearers, 3 nurgling bases and 3 plague drones (flies with plaguebearers on them)

[radionausea]

I recommend making the Nurglings stretch. You can make far more than 3 bases with what you get in the box. And though they look bad on paper (toughness!) they're very annoying and with their deployment can lock units into close combat first turn or stop deep striking.

[McElMcNinja]

It says to be battle forged all units have to be the same faction, and because the daemons in the codex say both Chaos and Nurgle for their faction wouldn't that apply towards being battle forged? Edited December 25, 2017 by McElMcNinja

[Wolf Lord Loki]

If you want the deathguard battleforged bonuses all the units in the detachment to have the DEATHGUARD key word

 

You could have a battle forged army but it wouldnt be deathguard

[Arkhanist]

Only infantry and helbrutes benefit from inexorable advance. So assuming you have one death guard exclusive detachment (for strats, relic, infantry using IA etc) there's no harm to sticking DG units that won't benefit anyway (such as bloat drones) into a 'chaos' detachment with the demons. The DG keyword units in the chaos detachment will still qualify for DG auras and DG strats and can help shuffle your slots around to maximise CP. 

 

The downside to that is that having a fully separate demon detachment may get quite a bit stronger once their codex drops so if you're doing more than a couple of little rotters a fully split set of detachments (DG & demons vs DG & chaos) may be the better option. 

[01RTB01]

Summoning a great unclean one and some beasts? Any good/ point?

 

Clearly too slow to walk so I'm assumung Summoning is the only way. The new daemons look amazing too and it'd be rude not to grab some I think...

 

Any experience with summoned demons?

[Panzer]

It's probably better to just take them in a seperate Detachment unless they change something about how summoning works when the Daemon Codex gets released.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I just had a thought about summoning and I wanted to check. If I use a command point to ally a unit in (and made it a nurgle daemon unit) would that disallow me from using the deathguard detachment rules or make the Ally and honoury deathguard?

 

(because I fail to see the point of that option otherwise!)

[Charlo]

I just had a thought about summoning and I wanted to check. If I use a command point to ally a unit in (and made it a nurgle daemon unit) would that disallow me from using the deathguard detachment rules or make the Ally and honoury deathguard?

 

(because I fail to see the point of that option otherwise!)

 

Do you mean the detachment that is a single unit at the expense of a command point?

 

If so, then it has zero bearing on any other detatchments you use. It is its own one unit detachment with Factions CHAOS NURGLE DAEMON. Your other detachments retain their own faction (DEATH GUARD, NURGLE, CHAOS, HERETIC ASTARTES etc)

 

In this case your overall army faction would be CHAOS or NURGLE, but each detachment gets their own benefits as long as you restrict them to a single faction (like DEATH GUARD).

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Huh so its pretty useless?

 

If we SUMMON a unit does it have to be in the detachment or just summonable?

[Azekai]

Huh so its pretty useless?

 

If we SUMMON a unit does it have to be in the detachment or just summonable?

Summoned units aren't technically part of any detachment, IIRC, and you don't pay points for them beforehand. Instead, you set points aside (maybe 100, say, or whatever), and when the game starts you can roll the summoning dice. Depending on what you roll, you then choose an appropriate unit and put it on the table. You still can't exceed your agreed upon points when summoning.   

[Wolf Lord Loki]

So @asekai if i take daemons in a summoning pool, they dont count towards my army selection?

I would have a detachment of deathguard and benefit from the rules as such but it would be say 50 power points of a 60 power army (the rest being summoned daemons)

[Noeh]

According to GW, army composition for Allegiance abilities only matters until the game starts. After that you're free to summon as much as you want without loss of said special abilities.

 

Also summoning doesn't say you need to declare ahead of time what you're bringing. There's no "summoning pool". You have reinforcement points you can use for anything that they can be used for. Say some rule allows you to replace a full unit of guys but you find you don't want to do that later in the game. Summon a pack of nurglings instead.

Reinforcement points are there for whatever you want.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Noeh

[BitsHammer]

Watched a TallyGuard list batrep recently and basically what I took from it is that supporting Death Guard with Daemons is best done by taking a seperate detachment so you can run up the Tally. Four out of seven of the vehicles have the Daemon rule leaving only the Rhino, Land Raider and Hellbrute not benefiting from the bonuses, and even Morty gets some Nurgle love when building up a tally.

 

That said, if you're running them inside of your army, setting points aside and summoning a unit (like the Bloat Flies) seems like the better option as it doesn't muck over your Battleforged bonuses.

 

Basically are you using them as reinforcements, or a themed force multiplier? Build according to purpose.

[Wolf Lord Cuneglas]

Watched a TallyGuard list batrep recently and basically what I took from it is that supporting Death Guard with Daemons is best done by taking a seperate detachment so you can run up the Tally. Four out of seven of the vehicles have the Daemon rule leaving only the Rhino, Land Raider and Hellbrute not benefiting from the bonuses, and even Morty gets some Nurgle love when building up a tally.

 

That said, if you're running them inside of your army, setting points aside and summoning a unit (like the Bloat Flies) seems like the better option as it doesn't muck over your Battleforged bonuses.

 

Basically are you using them as reinforcements, or a themed force multiplier? Build according to purpose.

Excellent point! I didn’t think about summoning them to keep battleforged detachment. Unless I’m taking a large cohort using summoning to bring them in is genius.

[BitsHammer]

I wouldn't go crazy with summoning, but if you just want a unit or maybe two then I'd consider it.

[Prot]

Okay I just confirmed it on Warhammer TV.... Mort will be able to deep strike with new Strategem.

 

Also this Strat to me... really pumps up Blight Haulers. Now I'll be looking at deep striking a squad of 3 along with Blightlords/Tyhpus for an instant mass of covered infantry and MultiMelta's shooting at a better range.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Prot

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea we burn through cps really fast so well probably need patrols or brigades to accommodate