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How would Sanguinius's return be explained?


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#1
Kastor Krieg

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CM Valrak basically explains that a dev mumbled fumbling through an answer that Sanguinius is "not dead, in a bad shape, he's in stasis". It could be a confusion between him and the Lion, where that'd make complete sense.

We already know the B&C's opinion on whether Sangy coming back and in what way is a good idea overall or not. I'm not interested in that in this thread, please keep this out.

What I'm more after is the HOW, if at all.



 


Edited by WarriorFish, 02 December 2017 - 10:11 PM.
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#2
sfPanzer

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As disclaimer before the usual ranting and whining begins:

 

The one who said that didn't seem very knowledgeable about BA in the first place and there are other names who said that Sanguinius is definitely dead dead in interviews. So don't get your hopes up just yet guys (and likewise the sky is not falling just yet!).

 

 

 

Going to watch that video later or tomorrow. I don't have much time right now unfortunately.


Edited by sfPanzer, 02 December 2017 - 03:55 PM.

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#3
Caldersson

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So now all 4 of the "known" dead primarchs have a way to live again. Seems rather convenient.
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#4
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Ferrus had been cloned up to the yinyang as well as various other shenanigans, to be fair Fabius cloned them All, bar 3. It could be clone, or Ynnari magic.


Edited by Chaplain Dosjetka, 02 December 2017 - 04:07 PM.
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#5
USNCenturion

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How?

The stab I will take is since all the successors and the original Legion are in one place, they will all have a blood draw and that combined blood drink will bring Sangy back. Or something. Maybe Cawl again. Or blood watchers.

Yeah, he should just stay dead.

#6
Old-Four-Arms

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Current BA fluff  :

 

Every Sanguinary Priest has a measure of the Primarch's blood coursing through his veins.

 

The Death Mask of Sanguinius holds the sole remaining drop of his unadulterated blood (according to Devastation of Baal).

 

This would imply that the Primarch is completely exsanguinated. Even if we consider the possibility that they managed to put

him in stasis on the very brink of death, I personally fail to see how they could possibly explain his return/retcon his death.

 

 

That being said, looking at the way Guilliman's resurrection was explained (Ynnari psychic powers and Cawl's dialysis machine),

nothing surprises me anymore.

 

 

 

Old-Four-Arms


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#7
Corsovitt

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Maybe Sanguinius wakes up in the shower and realises it was all a nightmare... 

 

In all seriousness if they are going to resurrect him, it'll happen with a little explanation and a lot of hand waving... The soul of sanguinius combined with the belief of his sons and some kind of blood ceremony sees him being reborn into a lawful good greater daemon or some such thing... 

 

Not all that bothered either way, wiil just retreat into my little corner of the universe where its always M40.995 and pretend all the rest is just fake news. :)


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#8
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Total click bait, which I wont take.

 

Didnt we have two denials of this just yesterday?

 

This is not news, this is speculation.


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#9
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Think that is just pure fan speculation. Personally speaking I hope he stays dead or it destroys the mythology surrounding his sacrifice.


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#10
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I'd rather wait for the real information rather than a video of speculation and bs.


Edited by Pulse, 02 December 2017 - 05:24 PM.

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#11
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Could we avoid clickbaity stuff on the B&C ? There's Youtube for that.


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#12
Omega-soul

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Current BA fluff  :

 

Every Sanguinary Priest has a measure of the Primarch's blood coursing through his veins.

 

The Death Mask of Sanguinius holds the sole remaining drop of his unadulterated blood (according to Devastation of Baal).

 

This would imply that the Primarch is completely exsanguinated. Even if we consider the possibility that they managed to put

him in stasis on the very brink of death, I personally fail to see how they could possibly explain his return/retcon his death.

 

 

That being said, looking at the way Guilliman's resurrection was explained (Ynnari psychic powers and Cawl's dialysis machine),

nothing surprises me anymore.

 

 

 

Old-Four-Arms

 

Not the sole - There is also relic - "Reliquary of Amit" - it's a feather with blood of primarch that was falling during the fight for The Eternity gate (or on the wall...) 

and that feather was catched before it fell on the ground and immidieatly contained into stasis-box which Amit then made as Reliquary.

 

On a subject note - there is a ton of ways to ressurrect Sanguinius - Ynnari used their magic to revive Guilliman (also - they had to kill him first, so that didn't matter that he was close to death) - why can't Necrons do some tricks? They have this technology that transferes the mind into machine body - so they would have Necron Angel.

Tyranids could eat that drop of blood from Dante and make Sanguinius-Kerrigan

 

I guess with some spare time and particular amount of drugs you may come up with a ton of feasable explanations why it could happen - but the main problem is still a decision of whether Sanguinius stay dead or be alive.

Because that decision basicly ruins the whole character, so it have to be build again.

 

Actually the return of Sanguinius is not a bad thing - if we take a look at the Horus heresy mythos - It is basicly a God (father) and his God (son) fighting Devil. So as Christ died - he didn't died just forever - there is a prophecy of Kingdom come and all that Apocalypce stuff - so the second coming is a thing in that mythos. It's not just out of the blue. 

And that also could be executed for a great story.

 

In my personal opinion - Primarchs are better alive as they create much more possibilities for a plot. The only downside is that this new plot should be executed even better than Heresy story.

The bad thing about dead Primarchs - conservation of general 40k storyline. GW have to come up with something new and cool from the scratch. And that is even harder than Heresy modification.



#13
HCMistborn

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I wouldn't call his video click bait, he made it to open discussion with his community on youtube. I can totally see GW bringing him back, but not for a while. I see Leman, Angron, The Lion, Fulgrim.

#14
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It would be a STRETCH to bring Sanguinius back, at least to me.  That said, I think the groundwork for bringing back the "spirit" of Sanguinius exists in the Sanguinor.  Beef up the stats a bit on the data sheet, and make it a little clearer in the codex (while still staying suitably vague in the fluff) that the Sanguinor is a warp manifestation of the Primarchs spirit - still watching over his sons in their hour(s) of greatest need.



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#15
Brother-Captain Alecto

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Sanguinius is still alive in my heart.


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#16
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I personally think that the guy from the stream has no idea what he's talking about considering he thinks Dante isn't a great tactician.

 

But that's just me. We'll see when we have the codex in our hands.


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#17
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They should just hire Dark Eldar to do a soul rejuvenation thing. All they need is a physical remanent such as skull or something. Wow they should bring back the emperor!


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#18
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Current BA fluff  :

 

Every Sanguinary Priest has a measure of the Primarch's blood coursing through his veins.

 

The Death Mask of Sanguinius holds the sole remaining drop of his unadulterated blood (according to Devastation of Baal).

 

This would imply that the Primarch is completely exsanguinated. Even if we consider the possibility that they managed to put

him in stasis on the very brink of death, I personally fail to see how they could possibly explain his return/retcon his death.

 

 

That being said, looking at the way Guilliman's resurrection was explained (Ynnari psychic powers and Cawl's dialysis machine),

nothing surprises me anymore.

 

 

 

Old-Four-Arms

 

Not the sole - There is also relic - "Reliquary of Amit" - it's a feather with blood of primarch that was falling during the fight for The Eternity gate (or on the wall...) 

and that feather was catched before it fell on the ground and immidieatly contained into stasis-box which Amit then made as Reliquary.

 

On a subject note - there is a ton of ways to ressurrect Sanguinius - Ynnari used their magic to revive Guilliman (also - they had to kill him first, so that didn't matter that he was close to death) - why can't Necrons do some tricks? They have this technology that transferes the mind into machine body - so they would have Necron Angel.

Tyranids could eat that drop of blood from Dante and make Sanguinius-Kerrigan

 

I guess with some spare time and particular amount of drugs you may come up with a ton of feasable explanations why it could happen - but the main problem is still a decision of whether Sanguinius stay dead or be alive.

Because that decision basicly ruins the whole character, so it have to be build again.

 

Actually the return of Sanguinius is not a bad thing - if we take a look at the Horus heresy mythos - It is basicly a God (father) and his God (son) fighting Devil. So as Christ died - he didn't died just forever - there is a prophecy of Kingdom come and all that Apocalypce stuff - so the second coming is a thing in that mythos. It's not just out of the blue. 

And that also could be executed for a great story.

 

In my personal opinion - Primarchs are better alive as they create much more possibilities for a plot. The only downside is that this new plot should be executed even better than Heresy story.

The bad thing about dead Primarchs - conservation of general 40k storyline. GW have to come up with something new and cool from the scratch. And that is even harder than Heresy modification.

 

 

The problem is that GW don't want to take their time with the story. These are incredibly powerful members of the Imperium steeped in mystery and awe while their chaos counter-parts are equally so.

 

The return of Gulliman was a literal Deus Ex Machina which is poor writing. Nothing was lost for him. Nothing. He just came back and sent the black legion packing because He be Gulliman. He is a character who exemplifys lawful good and while he has tendency to break this, it is rare. He believes in order, bringing things back to how they were. He literally walked into the chamber of High Lords and just threw almost all of them out the window. A character of strong principle and action with little deterring his drive for his ambitions. A good character due to the faults being tied to his admired traits.

The scene of his return however was done with poor care for the lore. Some eldar show up and the only reason they got to do anything with Gulliman is that they took advantage of the confusion that the black legion caused! If it wasn't for that we could of seen Calgar openly fight them over this matter and with just cause. This is just one version where we could see Calgar struck down and in his last moments see his Primarch walk once more. Gulliman, awaking to a new world and to see one of his own children, a chapter master even, struck down for him because he fought for what he thought was right. Gulliman would be shaken by this, not because he isn't worth sacrifice but the fact those who brought him back were willing to so easily throw away those who stood in their way for a moment. He would never trust these forces beyond their usefulness. This would make Calgar a martyr of the Ultramarines, a loss that echos that of the First Company during the first tyrannic war. This could then lead into attempts to ether introduce a new character (agemennom...or however it is spelt) or begin trying to make Sicarius a genunine character of interest.

Basically the scene of Gulliman's return was treated like a "yea this just happens" event like how people expect a bullet to fire or fire to be hot. It. Just. Happened. Nothing major came from the event itself bar Gulliman's actions and even then they are in no way tied to his revival.

 

With this in mind we will just see the same IF sanguinious does come back, it will most likely be treated the same way. "oh yea, Trazyn was actually present during the fight of Horus and Sang and when Sang was dying Trazyn stasised him with a temporal device that made it look like he was still there as an after effect and now magic power of the Eldar once again breaks him of stasis. Ok now, Sang is back guys, no biggy. No Big deal or anything. He's back. Never actually dyed at one of the most pivotal scenes in imperium history. No biggie"

 

Put a marker on this, put a reminder because if sang does come back, IF because I do hold doubt they will, then remember if they just Deus Ex Machina him back then someone have that phone on auto-answer because I am calling it!


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#19
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I wouldn't call his video click bait, he made it to open discussion with his community on youtube. I can totally see GW bringing him back, but not for a while. I see Leman, Angron, The Lion, Fulgrim.

 

You dont have 'discussion' with a Video.

 

It's clickbait just like a ton of Overwatch 'News' Youtubes are click bait. Drag it out with some game footage, bring in the eyes and make your views money.

 

I despise the media formats of today...

 

Regardless, it sure as HELL isnt news.


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#20
Urriak Urruk

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I wouldn't call his video click bait, he made it to open discussion with his community on youtube. I can totally see GW bringing him back, but not for a while. I see Leman, Angron, The Lion, Fulgrim.

 

You dont have 'discussion' with a Video.

 

It's clickbait just like a ton of Overwatch 'News' Youtubes are click bait. Drag it out with some game footage, bring in the eyes and make your views money.

 

I despise the media formats of today...

 

Regardless, it sure as HELL isnt news.

 

 

This thread isn't in the news section, so it's fine to be placed here.

 

It's a pretty big stretch that the developer did know that Sangy wasn't dead and they are planning to bring him back, but at the same time screwed up and said that aloud.

 

That said, if Sangy were to return there's only two ways I would actually like it.

 

1. If he returns as a warp-construct, like the Sanguinor but better, on par with Guilliman/Magnus/Mortarion. Isn't really capable of leading the Imperium or strategy, but just kind of spawns every here and there as some anti-daemon with some Legion of the Damned thing.

 

2. He's resurrected, but it goes WAY wrong. Like, he has both the Black Rage and the Red Thirst himself, is mostly insane, and is in the process not even with the Imperium anymore. Essentially, he become Dracula-in-Space, and leads his own Red Thirst/Black Rage corrupted marines on their own insane conquest, mostly going after traitor forces but not afraid to clash with Guilliman's goody-goody two-shoes forces.

 

I'm pretty cool with Primarchs returning in 40k, but not like Guilliman did. When he returned he's essentially just the same guy with a different weapon set. The Daemon Primarchs return is much better because they're now 100% on board with Chaos, flaws and all. But I have yet to see a loyalist return with an actually change in his character/aesthetic, which makes Guilliman disappointing for me.

 

(It also makes me leery of Vulkan/Corax/Lion returning, as I'm not sure how they would return as different)


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#21
Scribe

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I wouldn't call his video click bait, he made it to open discussion with his community on youtube. I can totally see GW bringing him back, but not for a while. I see Leman, Angron, The Lion, Fulgrim.

 

You dont have 'discussion' with a Video.

 

It's clickbait just like a ton of Overwatch 'News' Youtubes are click bait. Drag it out with some game footage, bring in the eyes and make your views money.

 

I despise the media formats of today...

 

Regardless, it sure as HELL isnt news.

 

 

This thread isn't in the news section, so it's fine to be placed here.

 

 

Now it isnt, wonder why?

 

(Oh right, because I reported it, as it needed to be moved.)

 

Thanks Mods!


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#22
slitth

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To me Sanguinius is dead, but death of such a creature as a primarch may have different rules.

 

I could see supernatural aspect of a primarch work to bring them back.

 

Perhaps the primarch as a warp entity that shares some of it favour through the gene-seed.

Kinda like a chaos god and mark.

 

So each act a space marine does in the name of his primarch boosts the "spirit" of the primarch.

And give him strength in the warp.

 

But that in itself will do nothing, it just surplus power that is waiting to be used.

Waiting for the right catalyst to break the natural order of things.

 

Look at Guilliman, all his "sons" fighting in this name.

If that would give extra power to define the natural way of thing, then all he would need was someone to flip the switch and allow him to return.

 

Same could be done with Sanguinius.

All that fighting and sacrifice could be empowering the spirit of Sanguinius.

If he has enough power then someone could summon the spirit back his body and allow it to restore it and bring him back from the dead.

 

Think of it like summoning as banish demon, it has to be back in power and you need the right amount of sacrifice and items to bring summon it.


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#23
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What if Guilliman rings Yvraine up and asks her to revive Sanguinius? :-P

She was able to resurrect Thousand Sons marines who were literally dust in their suits of armour.

Edited by Ishagu, 02 December 2017 - 08:21 PM.

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#24
the jeske

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There is no coming back from getting your sould crushed by a warp weapon. Unless the old fluff gets changed. If it happens I hope the story is going to be real good. Becase an alive Sanguinius makes his supposed sacrifice kind of meh, if he just returns after some time.


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#25
ronin_cse

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I don't see why GW bringing back primarchs, even totally dead ones, is some shocker here. They have been foreshadowing the return of almost all the primarchs for decades now, including Sangunius thanks to the Sanguinor, frankly I have been shocked that it took them this long.

 

Also wouldn't it kind of suck if the Blood Angels were the only of the big 4 to not get their primarch back? I mean The Lion and Russ are almost certainly coming back so that would leave BA as the odd man out, they will almost certainly get something primarch level even if it isn't exactly Sanguinius


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