Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Gaunt's Ghosts: The Warmaster

Dan Abnett Warhammer 40k Gaunts Ghosts The Warmaster

  • Please log in to reply
114 replies to this topic

#51
The_son_of_Dorn

The_son_of_Dorn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,670 posts
  • Location:THE UK!
  • Faction: All and none

Thank you ladz.

 

Much appreciated.


My alternate Heresy http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326705-another-alternate-heresy-with-no-fallen-primarchs/

 

"Poor chaos, the result of trillions of randomly merged hostile emotional subconsciousness's...........and 70% of them are female"  


#52
Ranwulf

Ranwulf

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 999 posts
  • Faction: Blood Angels, Space Wolves

The Gaunt's Ghosts series starts around 765.M41, though the prequel stories stretch back to the 750s.

 

KingHongKong,

 

Spoiler


 

Spoiler

[spoiler]


  • DukeLeto69 likes this
"You must know your enemy to defeat them, Colonel"
Captain Gabriel Angelos of the Blood Ravens 3rd Company.

"I CONTROL THE WORLD ITSELF! BEHOLD AS YOUR SOLDIERS FALL UNDER HIS MIGHTY JAW!"
Torin, Master of Runes of the Space Wolves.

#53
Phoebus

Phoebus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:The techno-tundras of northern Merica
  • Faction: Luciferi Imperialis

Spoiler

 

Spoiler


Edited by Phoebus, 20 December 2017 - 06:20 AM.

  • DukeLeto69 likes this

#54
A Melancholic Sanguinity

A Melancholic Sanguinity

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 585 posts

Spoiler


  • Petitioner's City likes this

#55
DukeLeto69

DukeLeto69

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 703 posts

Spoiler

 
Spoiler

Spoiler

  • Ranwulf likes this

#56
Phoebus

Phoebus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:The techno-tundras of northern Merica
  • Faction: Luciferi Imperialis

Spoiler


Edited by Phoebus, 20 December 2017 - 09:37 AM.


#57
Petitioner's City

Petitioner's City

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,445 posts

Is anyone else concerning the Chasses

Spoiler

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler


Edited by Petitioner's City, 21 December 2017 - 10:15 AM.

  • R_F_D likes this
Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#58
Perrin

Perrin

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 843 posts
  • Location:UK

I've been a Black Library fan for about a decade, and I can't believe it's taken me this long to read the Gaunt's Ghosts series.

 

The first omnibus ebook for £15 seemed a good deal, and with The Warmaster coming out I thought I'd give it a shot so I've spent the last fortnight reading through the entire collection and just finished The Warmaster today.

 

Have to agree with some previous posters that Only In Death is the best of the series. The bit near the end with ​that ​sanctioned psyker was one of the strongest scenes I've read in BL.

 

 

RE Gaunt's career progression:

 

Spoiler

 

Other thoughts on the events of Warmaster:

 

Spoiler

 

Final thing, regarding Yoncy:

 

Spoiler


  • aa.logan likes this

 

Wade Garrett, on 21 Nov 2013 - 18:33, said:

I agree with Legatus on the team work issue.

Imagine you're the coach of the Primarch football team, and you want your guys to run a zone defense.

Except Angron is plowing straight up the middle trying to sack the quarterback, Curze is off on the sidelines stabbing the opposing team's mascot, and Alpharius is somehow suddenly the referee.

So much for zone defense.

 


#59
OPTIMVSCHRISTVS

OPTIMVSCHRISTVS

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 371 posts
  • Location:'murica
  • Faction: Angels Infernal

 

I've been a Black Library fan for about a decade, and I can't believe it's taken me this long to read the Gaunt's Ghosts series.

 

The first omnibus ebook for £15 seemed a good deal, and with The Warmaster coming out I thought I'd give it a shot so I've spent the last fortnight reading through the entire collection and just finished The Warmaster today.

 

Have to agree with some previous posters that Only In Death is the best of the series. The bit near the end with ​that ​sanctioned psyker was one of the strongest scenes I've read in BL.

 

 

RE Gaunt's career progression:

 

Spoiler

 

Other thoughts on the events of Warmaster:

 

Spoiler

 

Final thing, regarding Yoncy:

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler
 


we_badge_optimvschrist.png


#60
Petitioner's City

Petitioner's City

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,445 posts



I've been a Black Library fan for about a decade, and I can't believe it's taken me this long to read the Gaunt's Ghosts series.


The first omnibus ebook for £15 seemed a good deal, and with The Warmaster coming out I thought I'd give it a shot so I've spent the last fortnight reading through the entire collection and just finished The Warmaster today.


Have to agree with some previous posters that Only In Death is the best of the series. The bit near the end with ​that ​sanctioned psyker was one of the strongest scenes I've read in BL.



RE Gaunt's career progression:


Spoiler


Other thoughts on the events of Warmaster:


Spoiler


Final thing, regarding Yoncy:


Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

  • Phoebus likes this
Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#61
Plaguecaster

Plaguecaster

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,984 posts
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Faction: Death Guard
I finally managed to find the time to read War master after finally getting the time to read it. it only took a few hours of dedicated reading but I really liked it

Spoiler

Edited by Plaguecaster, 23 December 2017 - 05:17 AM.

Nurgle Abominarions: A Host of Decay Revived for 8th​.
UPDATED 29/07/17

#62
Petitioner's City

Petitioner's City

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,445 posts

I finally managed to find the time to read War master after finally getting the time to read it. it only took a few hours of dedicated reading but I really liked it

Spoiler

 

I listened to the audiobook of it rather than read it (Salvation's Reach was also excellent, although I preferred its reader's three regimental accents versus Warmaster's  only really two), but it left me with lots of thoughts. (can all the ghosts become audio books???)

 

Spoiler

 

Really, Salvation's Reach was utterly confident as a novel, and this even more so. How much of this novel was people talking, and how much descriptions of things - from the Armaduke to the city to the fortress? This was such a respite, with funny moments, deep sadness, excellent visual and kinesthetic language, and so on. A strong continuation of Abnett's style seen in his later books. I can't wait for Anarch, although obviously I can - we waited six years for this. 

 

Finally on the Saint and Milo

 

Spoiler

 

Also, for anyone in the UK, you might want to catch University Challenge on the 29th msn-wink.gif :

 

DRf_BUHJXUAAqn99.jpg

 

 

A couple of weeks ago, in a mood of what the hell, I agreed to public humiliation on national tv at Christmas…. I mean, I agreed to participate in a beloved National Institution. with @EmmaKennedy @annabotting Richard Gozney and Jeremy Paxman December 29th, BBC2 6.30 PM


Edited by Petitioner's City, 23 December 2017 - 10:24 AM.

  • Noserenda, Phoebus, Ranwulf and 1 other like this
Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#63
Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,350 posts
  • Location:United States

I liked how Abnett really has developed the "retinue" - making this community of soldiers feel more real by expanding who makes it up. It's a situation that really makes sense for regiments and divisions which never see home again, and I loved the allusion to how if they had not signed the bond, they probably would never see one another again. I imagine this is common with Guard regiments, but I wish the codices and other kinds of books acknowledged this. 

 

I still have mixed thoughts on the regimental retinue, or at least how Abnett describes it as a seemingly random collection of everyone from spouses and children (which I think is an idea introduced in Rogue Trader) to arbitrary tagalongs building gambling dens and prostitutes soliciting soldiers. It's an idea that has its merits and I'd probably enjoy it a lot more if it was only limited to the former, and that collection of people were assigned tasks like assisting in the infirmary or manual labor for logistics. I also think the idea would have benefitted from being introduced earlier, and by earlier I mean First and Only and having a healthy number of Tanith refugees (which would have cheapened Milo as the last reminder of home and a regimental mascot or Gaunt lecturing Caffran on wedding his wife only to abandon her on the planet the next day, but that's neither here nor there). I'm glad Abnett's version hasn't been widely adopted yet since it doesn't strike me as a well thought out idea and more of an excuse for Yoncy to have a full time babysitter.

 

Felyx Chass Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Finally on the Saint and Milo

 

Milo is gonna be much older. This is the chronology of the series:

 

 

755 – beginning of crusade 

755 - Opening of the crusade

765 – Balhaut 

765 – Ghostmaker, early 

765/6 – First and Only 

767 – Ghostmaker/Monthax chapters 

769  Necropolis 

770 – Honour Guard 

771, late – Guns of Tanith  

772 – Straight Silver 

773 – Double EagleSabbat Martyr 

774 – Traitor General 

776 – His Last Command 

777 – The Armour of Contempt  

778 – Only in Death 

780 – Blood Pact 

781 – Salvation’s Reach 

791 – The Warmaster  

 

He was presumably 13-15 in Ghostmaker (665) so he couldn't be a soldier, until Necropolis. That means he will be nearly 40 (13+26) or over 40 (15+26)! If anyone is asking why the timejump...that will be one of the most interesting consequences, Milo will be older than Daur, Kolea, Rawne or even Gaunt when we first met!

 

I've acknowledged that an older Milo is the last possible interesting consequence of a ten year time jump since nothing else of significance changed. My problem is that there was already an 8 year gap between Salvation's Reach and Sabbat Martyr. So, what's the significant difference between meeting Milo in his mid thirties instead of his early forties?

 

Edit Grammar


Edited by KingHongKong, 25 December 2017 - 12:40 AM.

  • Phoebus and Petitioner's City like this

#64
Plaguecaster

Plaguecaster

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,984 posts
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Faction: Death Guard
Edit: ignore

Edited by Plaguecaster, 24 December 2017 - 05:31 AM.

Nurgle Abominarions: A Host of Decay Revived for 8th​.
UPDATED 29/07/17

#65
Phoebus

Phoebus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,068 posts
  • Location:The techno-tundras of northern Merica
  • Faction: Luciferi Imperialis

I still have mixed thoughts on the regimental retinue, or at least how Abnett describes it as a seemingly random collection of everyone from spouses and children (which I think is an idea introduced in Rogue Trader) to arbitrary tagalongs building gambling dens and prostitutes soliciting soldiers. It's an idea that has its merits and I'd probably enjoy it a lot more if it was only limited to the former, and that collection of people were assigned tasks like assisting in the infirmary or manual labor for logistics.

It’s quite an old concept, and probably as old as long-term warfare. Alexander the Great, for instance, marched through most of Asia with an army that was probably almost matched in number by its retinue, which also included merchants, tradesmen, prostitutes, etc.

I also think the idea would have benefitted from being introduced earlier, and by earlier I mean First and Only and having a healthy number of Tanith refugees (which would have cheapened Milo as the last reminder of home and a regimental mascot or Gaunt lecturing Caffran on wedding his wife only to abandon her on the planet the next day, but that's neither here nor there).

The thing is, that undermines so many memorable moments of this series, to say nothing of one of the fundamental underpinnings of the series: that the Ghosts have lost their planet and their people.

I'm glad Abnett's version hasn't been widely adopted yet since it doesn't strike me as a well thought out idea and more of an excuse for Yoncy to have a full time babysitter.

It’s funny, I’ve been re-reading the series, and when I got to the part of The Guns of Tanith where Gol Korea is spying on Yoncy from a prostitute’s tent, I thought the same thing. What do you mean by “hasn’t been widely adopted yet,” though?
  • Petitioner's City likes this

#66
Jarl Caldersson

Jarl Caldersson

    ++ OCCISOR CANUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 2,444 posts
  • Faction: SW? IDK anymore, and DG
Sorry to barge in but, got the collectors edition as a early Xmas gift and the Tanith Tactical is blank. I am not familiar with gaunts ghosts as I am just barely starting the trilogy. Is it supposed to be a joke or did I get a misprint? (Already got one misprinted book this year).
Posted ImagePosted Image
"It has been said that the Lord of Ultramar sees little else besides the primacy of his own culture. For him, all worlds might as well be Ultramar." - Diplomat Pyke
"I would have expected that suggestion from Ferrus, or maybe even Horus, but never Russ. He has a hidden depth that one" - Primarch Fulgrim
"The Wolves were the Emperor’s red right hand–monsters in their own way–but how easy it was to only see the savage, to fear the axe and miss the subtle knife." - Prmomus

#67
A Melancholic Sanguinity

A Melancholic Sanguinity

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 585 posts

It's a notebook, a journal.

 

The intent is that you take something that leaves physical markings upon paper - a pen, pencil, crayon, the blood of your enemies, or whatever - and write in it. Or draw. You're not limited in how you choose to use sheets of paper.



#68
Jarl Caldersson

Jarl Caldersson

    ++ OCCISOR CANUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 2,444 posts
  • Faction: SW? IDK anymore, and DG
Ah I thought it was an actual book, that described the Tanith tactics (hence tactical Tanith) not a journal. Thank you.
Posted ImagePosted Image
"It has been said that the Lord of Ultramar sees little else besides the primacy of his own culture. For him, all worlds might as well be Ultramar." - Diplomat Pyke
"I would have expected that suggestion from Ferrus, or maybe even Horus, but never Russ. He has a hidden depth that one" - Primarch Fulgrim
"The Wolves were the Emperor’s red right hand–monsters in their own way–but how easy it was to only see the savage, to fear the axe and miss the subtle knife." - Prmomus

#69
Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,350 posts
  • Location:United States

It’s quite an old concept, and probably as old as long-term warfare. Alexander the Great, for instance, marched through most of Asia with an army that was probably almost matched in number by its retinue, which also included merchants, tradesmen, prostitutes, etc.

 

Certainly, and I'm sure that you could give me an entire list of examples up to and including including modern military spouses living abroad on bases. I'd prefer the regimental retinue if they were more in line with that though and only included spouses and children, and not whatever random cobbler or prostitute felt like hopping aboard a spaceship. I'm sure we could talk for hours about how professional we'd like the Imperial military to be, how difficult we'd like movement in the Imperium to be, and what Imperial ships should be like on a sliding scale from modern aircraft carriers to mega cities, but I'd rather not derail.

 

I'm not saying that there's no room for people in the Imperium to profiteer off of soldiers by building businesses around planet side Imperial bases, Daur's wife Elodie was introduced as one in Blood Pact. All I'm saying is that I think that characters, like say whatever Yoncy's babysitter's name is, would be better if they had some passing line telling us that this is so and so's wife instead of her just being there and sticking around.

 

When I say "an idea introduced in Rogue Trader," I'm referring to this line "Of real interest is the tradition of a form of caravan train that accompany the Imperial Guard regiments. Sons of Guardsmen are recruited into the Guard at a young age and train alongside their brethren. Again, not only a band of brothers, but a family unit almost." from this blog post referencing the 1989 Warhammer 40,000 Compendium of White Dwarf articles.

 

The thing is, that undermines so many memorable moments of this series, to say nothing of one of the fundamental underpinnings of the series: that the Ghosts have lost their planet and their people.

 

Only insofar as First and Only and Ghostmaker, and I'd argue that giving the ghosts a family in the camp followers undermines that anyway. I know I already used the example in my last post, but it sticks out in my mind far more than any of the instances of Rawne holding a knife to Gaunt's throat, Gaunt has a talk with Caffran and scolds him saying that Caffran abandoned his new wife when he joined the Guard. That's harsh, that's cruel, that stings, and at the time when we didn't know any better it was probably true. A dozen-ish books later and Ban Daur is getting married to a woman he met on a military base during R&R in front of the ghosts new adoptive family before raiding Salvation's Reach. I'm not criticizing Abnett for changing his mind over the course of a decade, I'm saying that if he had the opportunity to do it again, it's something I think he should have done from the beginning. Even then, following what I'd like it would only be wives and children, the ghosts would still have lost relatives and loved ones as well as their home world. If it were Tanith refugees in general, you'd have the opportunity to have an influx of soldiers who never wanted to be soldiers and their children to follow them even if that is a retroactive retread of the initial Vervenhive intake.

 

It’s funny, I’ve been re-reading the series, and when I got to the part of The Guns of Tanith where Gol Korea is spying on Yoncy from a prostitute’s tent, I thought the same thing. What do you mean by “hasn’t been widely adopted yet,” though?

 

Maybe I haven't been reading the right Imperial Guard books, but I can't recall any other instance in the last decade that includes a regimental camp following.

 

I'm not sure where to fit this above, but there's also a point to be made that every time the Ghosts get reinforced, the reinforcements should have come with their own camp followers to intermingle with the existing camp. I know they're books about the guard and the camp followers are only tangentially related, but I think that that would be a slice of life story worth reading and more interesting than most of Abnett's side plots even if it's just vapid conversation. I think the closest we got was Elodie learning how to be an officer's wife. So, I guess I'm saying that Elodie learning how to collect her husband's dry cleaning and associated gossip was more interesting than Jakub Wilder's stupid band regiment or Gaunt's son or any number of times Abnett decided to put his characters on trial.

 

Edited out fairly major spoiler


Edited by KingHongKong, 24 December 2017 - 03:18 PM.


#70
Ugolino

Ugolino

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 323 posts

I suspect there's an element to the Chaos strategy that the protagonists have missed.

 

Spoiler


  • Brother Lunkhead and LetsYouDown like this

#71
DukeLeto69

DukeLeto69

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 703 posts

Ah I thought it was an actual book, that described the Tanith tactics (hence tactical Tanith) not a journal. Thank you.


If I was you I would be a bit disappointed. It SHOULD be a book with content for the extortionate price of the LE. Very poor in my opinion and the reason I didn't bother. However, the novel is great!

#72
DukeLeto69

DukeLeto69

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 703 posts

I suspect there's an element to the Chaos strategy that the protagonists have missed.
 

Spoiler


Ah but...

Spoiler

  • Petitioner's City likes this

#73
DukeLeto69

DukeLeto69

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 703 posts

It’s quite an old concept, and probably as old as long-term warfare. Alexander the Great, for instance, marched through most of Asia with an army that was probably almost matched in number by its retinue, which also included merchants, tradesmen, prostitutes, etc.


Certainly, and I'm sure that you could give me an entire list of examples up to and including including modern military spouses living abroad on bases. I'd prefer the regimental retinue if they were more in line with that though and only included spouses and children, and not whatever random cobbler or prostitute felt like hopping aboard a spaceship. I'm sure we could talk for hours about how professional we'd like the Imperial military to be, how difficult we'd like movement in the Imperium to be, and what Imperial ships should be like on a sliding scale from modern aircraft carriers to mega cities, but I'd rather not derail.

I'm not saying that there's no room for people in the Imperium to profiteer off of soldiers by building businesses around planet side Imperial bases, Daur's wife Elodie was introduced as one in Blood Pact. All I'm saying is that I think that characters, like say whatever Yoncy's babysitter's name is, would be better if they had some passing line telling us that this is so and so's wife instead of her just being there and sticking around.

When I say "an idea introduced in Rogue Trader," I'm referring to this line "Of real interest is the tradition of a form of caravan train that accompany the Imperial Guard regiments. Sons of Guardsmen are recruited into the Guard at a young age and train alongside their brethren. Again, not only a band of brothers, but a family unit almost." from this blog post referencing the 1989 Warhammer 40,000 Compendium of White Dwarf articles.

The thing is, that undermines so many memorable moments of this series, to say nothing of one of the fundamental underpinnings of the series: that the Ghosts have lost their planet and their people.


Only insofar as First and Only and Ghostmaker, and I'd argue that giving the ghosts a family in the camp followers undermines that anyway. I know I already used the example in my last post, but it sticks out in my mind far more than any of the instances of Rawne holding a knife to Gaunt's throat, Gaunt has a talk with Caffran and scolds him saying that Caffran abandoned his new wife when he joined the Guard. That's harsh, that's cruel, that stings, and at the time when we didn't know any better it was probably true. A dozen-ish books later and Ban Daur is getting married to a woman he met on a military base during R&R in front of the ghosts new adoptive family before raiding Salvation's Reach. I'm not criticizing Abnett for changing his mind over the course of a decade, I'm saying that if he had the opportunity to do it again, it's something I think he should have done from the beginning. Even then, following what I'd like it would only be wives and children, the ghosts would still have lost relatives and loved ones as well as their home world. If it were Tanith refugees in general, you'd have the opportunity to have an influx of soldiers who never wanted to be soldiers and their children to follow them even if that is a retroactive retread of the initial Vervenhive intake.

It’s funny, I’ve been re-reading the series, and when I got to the part of The Guns of Tanith where Gol Korea is spying on Yoncy from a prostitute’s tent, I thought the same thing. What do you mean by “hasn’t been widely adopted yet,” though?


Maybe I haven't been reading the right Imperial Guard books, but I can't recall any other instance in the last decade that includes a regimental camp following.

I'm not sure where to fit this above, but there's also a point to be made that every time the Ghosts get reinforced, the reinforcements should have come with their own camp followers to intermingle with the existing camp. I know they're books about the guard and the camp followers are only tangentially related, but I think that that would be a slice of life story worth reading and more interesting than most of Abnett's side plots even if it's just vapid conversation. I think the closest we got was Elodie learning how to be an officer's wife. So, I guess I'm saying that Elodie learning how to collect her husband's dry cleaning and associated gossip was more interesting than Jakub Wilder's stupid band regiment or Gaunt's son or any number of times Abnett decided to put his characters on trial.

Edited out fairly major spoiler
I confess that I have not read every word of your post above and digested so I may be missing your point but...

Just because other BL authors have chosen to not explore camp retinue/followers doesn't mean Abnett is wrong! Abnett is somewhat copying the concept of Napoleonic War regiments (like in the Sharpe books) and they had these followers. Personally I think it is a great concept.

Also...

As the years have passed so the retinue would have grown and been accumulated from each world that is visited. There were none from Tanith because it got zapped and only the regiment got off the ground. Over the years women then children and other hangers on have, as the name implies, started hanging on to the regiment for their own existence.

For that reason as this retinue grows so do the opportunities for stories to explore within these characters.

AND remember that certainly since Verghast there has been a retinue (yoncy and Dalin being the examples of this).

Also worth pointing out that with the GG series being so long running and Abnett being who he is and the sales he has achieved means he has permission to do more of his own thing compared to other writers who tackle Imperial Guard. A one off novel from a less "successful" writer will be more "on brief" for WARhammer 40k.

Final point - GG series is also to some extent has evolved into a soap opera/family drama against a war backdrop.

Edited by DukeLeto69, 25 December 2017 - 01:01 PM.


#74
Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,350 posts
  • Location:United States

Leto, I don't disagree with anything you've said.

 

No, Abnett isn't wrong. It's Warhammer 40,000, nothing is wrong. But, that doesn't mean we can't have a conversation about it either. I mean exactly what I said, the camp retinue/ follower/ caravan to my knowledge hasn't bee widely adopted (yet), and Abnett has done more than his fair share of that in his career writing for Black Library. Referring to the radio as a "vox/ vox caster"? Abnett. Data Slates? Abnett (even if the concept of tablet computers goes back to the 50s). Referring to lamps or lights in general as "glow globes" Abnett(-ish, I think it was lifted from Herbert's Dune (1965), Watson uses it in Space Marine (1993), and Abnett in Eisenhorn (2001)). The Old English Space Wolves language/ dialect? Abnett.

 

But, for every one of Abnett's concepts that have stuck around and permeated their way across the universe, there are easily dozens that haven't. Colonel-Commissar. Feth. .30 cal machine guns. Guardsmen getting issued the wrong ammunition (or, in this case, batteries). RIP Retraining, Indoctrination, Punishment. Marching band guardsmen. Referring to guardsmen as lasmen. Military court hearings/ commissar advocates. Stalk tanks. Sanctioned psyker chain gang. The destrier. Aviation guard regiment. Loxatl. Whatever the grave chute jetpack thing in The Guns of Tanith is. Ezrah's dialect of High Gothic. And, for the time being, camp followers. That isn't to say that I don't want Black Library authors experimenting, I do. That isn't to say I think all of the ideas on this list are bad, I don't.

 

Camp followers are an excellent concept in a vacuum. There's historical precedent and there's modern precedent, it's an idea that existed in the earliest versions of Warhammer 40,000, and it makes sense. I think it provides ample opportunity for, as you described, a soap opera/ family drama. But, I think Abnett has executed it poorly. There are no Tanith retinue because at time of writing First and Only Abnett probably wasn't thinking three, four, or five books ahead. I'd say it's the same reason we don't have women from Tanith in the regiment, because Abnett wasn't thinking about it at the time. It doesn't make the old books wrong, and it doesn't make the new books right, all it means is that Abnett came up with new ideas, and gave them a shot for better or worse.

 

My problem isn't that there are hangers on. My problem is why the hangers are hanging. I wish Abnett had written about more soldiers' families, more kids Dalin's age making their way into the regiment over the course of a decade or more children Yoncy's age for her to play with. I've always found Abnett's side plots weak, I think he could have benefitted from writing about more retinue characters doing retinue things, or pushing the boundaries on what retinue constitutes, since cobbler, dry cleaner, and prostitute are boring. Is Dorden retinue? Lesp? Curth? Zweil? Maddalena? What's their place is the hierarchy? Why aren't the reinforcement intakes coming along with their own retinues of doctors and priests and spouses and children? It may be, as you say, WARhammer, but I think that people appreciate the slice of life scenes, and sometimes more than another minor and inconsequential shootout. I know I do.


  • Petitioner's City likes this

#75
DukeLeto69

DukeLeto69

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 703 posts
KHK... I think we are in agreement for the most part. I too want more "domestic 40k" and that is one of the reasons I love the Inquisitor books so much. I actually think this is one of Abnett's strengths as an author because he gives this broader colour/flavour to his stories and doesn't only focus on the WAR elements. I wish other authors did that more.
  • Brother Lunkhead, Knockagh and Petitioner's City like this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Dan Abnett, Warhammer 40k, Gaunts Ghosts, The Warmaster

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users