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Relationship between Roboute Guilliman and Leman Russ


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#1
Ishagu

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I think it's probable that Leman Russ will be the next returning Primarch.
It fits with the time frame of codex releases, the lore has set the stage for his return and he's a completely different general and warrior from Guilliman which makes for a nice contrast between the two Imperium heroes.

What's the relationship between the two. How would Russ react to the Imperium, and more interestingly; how will the Imperium react to Russ?

We know Guilliman saw Russ as one of the dauntless few. A commander so reliable and dependable that any war could be won outright with the support of him and his forces.
We also know that Russ sent a pack of warriors to keep an eye on Guilliman for any signs of treachery after the outbreak of the Heresy, so perhaps the sentiment isn't shared.

If Russ has mutated in a similar fashion to the Wulfen how will Guilliman and the Imperium react? What will the ecclesiarchy say when a vaunted Saint of legend appears as a mutated beast? Will Guilliman defend him from the more zealous elements of humanity? I personally believe that he would, as long as Russ' faculties were unaffected.

We know that Russ doesn't take orders from Guilliman. He ignored the Codex, but never challenged Guilliman in his position as Lord Commander to my knowledge.

Is this, in terms of story, the easiest return? Guilliman the statesman, Russ the warrior?
What direction could this take, and what would you like to see from GW?

*Edit* Fixed Typo

Edited by Ishagu, 05 December 2017 - 09:54 PM.

-~Ishagu~-


#2
Sete

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He will pile dive Guilliman into the eye of terror and upon impact Guilliman plot shield will mix with the warp energy spilling from the eye of terror and the resulting explosion will cause a singularity know as big bang that created our universe.

I don't know enough about Russ and how 10k years in the eye might have changed him to assume what will happen.

Edited by Sete, 05 December 2017 - 09:36 PM.

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#3
Charlo

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Hopefully he's Wulven so he's different to the 30k Model.

 

*can already hear the snarling of annoyed wolf players* 


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#4
Sete

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"Wet leopard growls" :D
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#5
rendingon1+

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Man, I entered this thread expecting a story time. "Bobby and the Wolf" sound very fairytale y. Like:

...

"Oh Emperor, what big teeth you have got!"

...


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When a Great Beast marauds, the warriors of the keep do not seek terms with it, they do not ride out and ask for it to accommodate their feelings. They set forth with shocklance and power sword, and all the courage and determination they can muster. They find the beast and they lay their blades upon it until it is dead, or they are.


#6
Leif Bearclaw

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We know Guilliman saw Russ as one of the dauntless few. A commander so reliable and dependable that any war could be won outright with the support of him and his forces.
We also know that Russ sent a pack of warriors to keep an eye on Guilliman for any signs of treachery after the outbreak of the Heresy, so perhaps the sentiment isn't shared.
 

Weren't the Watch Packs sent out by Malcador? Pretty sure they weren't a unilateral move by Russ.


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#7
Jarl Caldersson

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We know Guilliman saw Russ as one of the dauntless few. A commander so reliable and dependable that any war could be won outright with the support of him and his forces.
We also know that Russ sent a pack of warriors to keep an eye on Guilliman for any signs of treachery after the outbreak of the Heresy, so perhaps the sentiment isn't shared.

Weren't the Watch Packs sent out by Malcador? Pretty sure they weren't a unilateral move by Russ.

I could be very wrong about this as my memory is hazy about this. I thought the knights errant and the watch packs were designed by both malcador and Russ together.

sml_gallery_69091_12729_6611.jpggallery_4664_11830_1029.jpeg

"It has been said that the Lord of Ultramar sees little else besides the primacy of his own culture. For him, all worlds might as well be Ultramar." - Diplomat Pyke

"I would have expected that suggestion from Ferrus, or maybe even Horus, but never Russ. He has a hidden depth that one" - Primarch Fulgrim

"The Wolves were the Emperor’s red right hand–monsters in their own way–but how easy it was to only see the savage, to fear the axe and miss the subtle knife." - Prmomus


#8
Urriak Urruk

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I'm hoping Russ returns as "40k Odin" as opposed to his "30k Thor" persona. Wiser, grizzled, battle-hardened and out for vengeance, but with a long-term view as well.

 

Wulfen Russ... it's just kind of boring and expected. I don't mind Wulfen characters/new units to meet that niche if you want it, but I like this aesthetic for returned Russ;

 

b8bfd97408c2a4a5a7d77f7953dc32b3--comic-

 

Anyway, I don't think Russ would oppose much of what Guilliman's been up to. Probably would look around and think, "This isn't great, but Bobby's trying to fix it, and I never could, so good for him!"

 

He might keep an eye on Guilliman to check he's not trying to make himself the new Emperor, but priority one for Russ would be to take out his fallen brothers, chiefly Magnus. I wouldn't be surprised if Russ returned and said, "Hey guys, I've figured out how to perma-kill the Daemon Primarchs, who's with me?!"


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#9
Marshal Rohr

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If anyone at the studio so much as even breathes a whisper about Wulfen Russ they should be fired for cause.
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Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

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#10
Brother Sefiel

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Hello

Finally played another game - will write it up shortly.


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Things are not always as they seem. Your friend today is your enemy tomorrow.

#11
Jarl Caldersson

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Hello
Finally played another game - will write it up shortly.


Lol think you are a little lost now.

sml_gallery_69091_12729_6611.jpggallery_4664_11830_1029.jpeg

"It has been said that the Lord of Ultramar sees little else besides the primacy of his own culture. For him, all worlds might as well be Ultramar." - Diplomat Pyke

"I would have expected that suggestion from Ferrus, or maybe even Horus, but never Russ. He has a hidden depth that one" - Primarch Fulgrim

"The Wolves were the Emperor’s red right hand–monsters in their own way–but how easy it was to only see the savage, to fear the axe and miss the subtle knife." - Prmomus


#12
Arendious

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I'm hoping Russ returns as "40k Odin" as opposed to his "30k Thor" persona. Wiser, grizzled, battle-hardened and out for vengeance, but with a long-term view as well.

 

I really like the juxtaposition this would create. Guilliman, who was the "statesman" and thinker, comes back as a warrior. Russ, who was a tireless warrior, is now the counselor.


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"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go." ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corps<p>gallery_48988_6285_18080.png

#13
Jarl Caldersson

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Didn't Russ compliment RG on his ability to build Ultramar as prosperous as it was, but said it wasn't for the wolves? I could see Russ leaving RG to fix the imperium up as long as he left Fenris system and his sons alone, hence why we haven't seen RG cross paths with the wolves.

 

I could see RG being the statesman, while russ heads military operations or at least offensive operations into the warp. Russ would know a few things about the warp by now. He would probably have a Watch Pack keeping an eye on RG though just in case, especially if he heard that RG was raised from the dead by xeno psykers. 


Edited by Caldersson, 06 December 2017 - 03:55 PM.

sml_gallery_69091_12729_6611.jpggallery_4664_11830_1029.jpeg

"It has been said that the Lord of Ultramar sees little else besides the primacy of his own culture. For him, all worlds might as well be Ultramar." - Diplomat Pyke

"I would have expected that suggestion from Ferrus, or maybe even Horus, but never Russ. He has a hidden depth that one" - Primarch Fulgrim

"The Wolves were the Emperor’s red right hand–monsters in their own way–but how easy it was to only see the savage, to fear the axe and miss the subtle knife." - Prmomus


#14
Ishagu

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Guilliman hated the watch pack keeping an eye on him. Russ wouldn't be in a position to assign one to him, and xenos psykers are no more suspicious than prolonged warp exposure.
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-~Ishagu~-


#15
the jeske

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That is rather heretical a view, because it claims that there is no difference between pious men and women of the imperial navy, proud imperial merchants and dutiful navigators and an eldar or orc psyker. Because those people are in touch with the warp on a daily basis.

G-man was not the warmaster and Russ had the direct order from emperor to deal with any threat posed by space marines to his planes. Plus the squad wasn't anything special, I don't think Russ though any of his brothers was safe.

 

 

Going by todays fluff, he probablly wouldn't have the time to care what G-man is doing or claiming.


Edited by the jeske, 06 December 2017 - 05:44 PM.

"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#16
Jarl Caldersson

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Guilliman hated the watch pack keeping an eye on him. Russ wouldn't be in a position to assign one to him, and xenos psykers are no more suspicious than prolonged warp exposure.

 

Russ would have just as much power as Guilliman, maybe even more so if he knew and announced how RG came back to life. I would admit they would probably come to an agreement. A SW Watch Pack assigned to watch Guilliman, a UM attache' assigned to watch Russ.


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sml_gallery_69091_12729_6611.jpggallery_4664_11830_1029.jpeg

"It has been said that the Lord of Ultramar sees little else besides the primacy of his own culture. For him, all worlds might as well be Ultramar." - Diplomat Pyke

"I would have expected that suggestion from Ferrus, or maybe even Horus, but never Russ. He has a hidden depth that one" - Primarch Fulgrim

"The Wolves were the Emperor’s red right hand–monsters in their own way–but how easy it was to only see the savage, to fear the axe and miss the subtle knife." - Prmomus


#17
Knight of the Raven

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Weren't the Watch Packs sent out by Malcador? Pretty sure they weren't a unilateral move by Russ.
I could be very wrong about this as my memory is hazy about this. I thought the knights errant and the watch packs were designed by both malcador and Russ together.

According to the lexicanum, references to the reason for dispatching of watch packs are found in the short story Howl of the Hearthworld and the audio drama Hunter's Moon.

 

From the posts of fellow B&Cers I read here, Rogal Dorn (who according to some Forge World seminar would be the one who would never, in any circumstances, turn from the Emperor) got one to avoid outraged musings about playing favorites, and they were more intended as 'canaries' whose ceased reports would confirm a primarch's betrayal than as executionners with any actual chance to kill the disloyal primarch in question.

 

I'm not sure why Malcador expected the watch pack sent to Kurze to survive long enough to send as much as one report though. They'd have been killed for sports under an hour even if Kurze never intended to turn on the Emperor.



#18
Jarl Caldersson

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Weren't the Watch Packs sent out by Malcador? Pretty sure they weren't a unilateral move by Russ.
I could be very wrong about this as my memory is hazy about this. I thought the knights errant and the watch packs were designed by both malcador and Russ together.

According to the lexicanum, references to the reason for dispatching of watch packs are found in the short story Howl of the Hearthworld and the audio drama Hunter's Moon.

 

From the posts of fellow B&Cers I read here, Rogal Dorn (who according to some Forge World seminar would be the one who would never, in any circumstances, turn from the Emperor) got one to avoid outraged musings about playing favorites, and they were more intended as 'canaries' whose ceased reports would confirm a primarch's betrayal than as executionners with any actual chance to kill the disloyal primarch in question.

 

I'm not sure why Malcador expected the watch pack sent to Kurze to survive long enough to send as much as one report though. They'd have been killed for sports under an hour even if Kurze never intended to turn on the Emperor.

 

 

A bit off subject but it perked my interest. I thought that Russ was the one that the Emperor said he wasn't worried about turning traitor. 

 

Agreed assigning the watch pack to Kurze was suicide.


sml_gallery_69091_12729_6611.jpggallery_4664_11830_1029.jpeg

"It has been said that the Lord of Ultramar sees little else besides the primacy of his own culture. For him, all worlds might as well be Ultramar." - Diplomat Pyke

"I would have expected that suggestion from Ferrus, or maybe even Horus, but never Russ. He has a hidden depth that one" - Primarch Fulgrim

"The Wolves were the Emperor’s red right hand–monsters in their own way–but how easy it was to only see the savage, to fear the axe and miss the subtle knife." - Prmomus


#19
Ishagu

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That is rather heretical a view, because it claims that there is no difference between pious men and women of the imperial navy, proud imperial merchants and dutiful navigators and an eldar or orc psyker. Because those people are in touch with the warp on a daily basis.
G-man was not the warmaster and Russ had the direct order from emperor to deal with any threat posed by space marines to his planes. Plus the squad wasn't anything special, I don't think Russ though any of his brothers was safe.


Going by todays fluff, he probablly wouldn't have the time to care what G-man is doing or claiming.


There's a difference between a man safely behind a gellar field and someone who literally entered the warp to do battle with the servants of Chaos on their demonic worlds. Who knows what he's seen or been subjected to.

-~Ishagu~-


#20
Black_Star

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Guilliman hated the watch pack keeping an eye on him. Russ wouldn't be in a position to assign one to him, and xenos psykers are no more suspicious than prolonged warp exposure.

 

Is that later on, I got the impression from unremembered empire that Guilliman really didn't mind them much, except being a little embarrassed when he is meeting with a certain brother. Just curious? 

 

 

Weren't the Watch Packs sent out by Malcador? Pretty sure they weren't a unilateral move by Russ.
I could be very wrong about this as my memory is hazy about this. I thought the knights errant and the watch packs were designed by both malcador and Russ together.

According to the lexicanum, references to the reason for dispatching of watch packs are found in the short story Howl of the Hearthworld and the audio drama Hunter's Moon.

 

From the posts of fellow B&Cers I read here, Rogal Dorn (who according to some Forge World seminar would be the one who would never, in any circumstances, turn from the Emperor) got one to avoid outraged musings about playing favorites, and they were more intended as 'canaries' whose ceased reports would confirm a primarch's betrayal than as executionners with any actual chance to kill the disloyal primarch in question.

 

I'm not sure why Malcador expected the watch pack sent to Kurze to survive long enough to send as much as one report though. They'd have been killed for sports under an hour even if Kurze never intended to turn on the Emperor.

 

 

I think it was more of a political move to send them to Kruze and to their deaths. Send them to everyone who wasn't confirmed traitor so that someone like the Khan, Lion, or Guilliman don't feel picked on. 



#21
slitth

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If Leman Russ returned he would not be pleased with that he sees.

But he it less likely to move against the Imperium or Guilliman then the Lion.

 

He would be focus on more on the external fight than the state of the Imperium... for now.

And he would most likely concentrate on fight on the dark side of the imperium.

To help the people stranded then and to get away for Guilliman and his politics


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#22
The_son_of_Dorn

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Russ returns, heavy drinking takes place. Insults occur. Primaris are mentioned. A chance to rebuild the sw's is then mentioned. MORE drinking occurs. The spacewolves rebuild. Successor chapters are available for the first time.

Everyone becomes a sw successor wannabe (even tyranid places) GW sales for the sw's skyrocket. Every other race is now mute.

Russ has returned and destroyed everything.

My alternate Heresy http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326705-another-alternate-heresy-with-no-fallen-primarchs/

Fate will open the gate, but love or hate will seal it

Let ambition guide your actions, but let temperance see them fufuilled

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Remember success and failure, love and hate are all one weapon, what matters is how you wield it.

 


#23
Huggtand

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If Russ comes back I really hope they continue the transformation we see in the HH series. From being the lone "executioner" to realizing that the wolves has to change and become more than just unthinking weapons without friends. In 30K he is described to playing the expected barbarian an now he can let it go and be his full potential. I can see that Russ being more involved i statemanship and grand strategies besides Guilliman.

 

Since its GW and not FW I dont have high hopes and we probably get wulfen Russ because werewolves and wolf wolfy wolf... sigh


Edited by Huggtand, 07 December 2017 - 10:24 AM.

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"He made barbarism a controlled trait, something noble to be understood and mastered, not a state of primitive regression. Leman Russ was the dynamism of a life free from civilisation’s shackles. He was strength and purpose and heart, where all else was grey with the promise of inevitable stagnancy. He wasn’t a wolf because of how he fought and howled and bunched his men into packs. 

He was a wolf because of how he lived, forever echoing the vitality and honesty of the wildness at the heart of all life."

 

- Betrayer by Aaron Dembski-Bowden


#24
Stormborn

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The words muzzle and leash spring to mind.

 

As a furry Russ seems highly likely from GW.  (Do have to wonder how RG and his Nuperium will tolerate mutant Russ and his remaining wolf spawn.  Hoping its not going to be My Little Space Wolf Friendship is Magic and we get a forth option.


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#25
Jarl Caldersson

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I fail to see how you being a furry affects GW decision.

I personally am really skeptical of Wulfen Russ. We have been told multiple times Russ does not have the Wulfen issue. GW also has seen some rather strong outcry against the Wulfen and SWs being too wolfy. They also have reached out to the community directly and indirectly asking for feedback. I will admit I was very worried that the majority of people wanted Wulfen Russ, but my opinion changes after seeing multiple net group state they want Odin Russ.

Only time will tell I suppose.

sml_gallery_69091_12729_6611.jpggallery_4664_11830_1029.jpeg

"It has been said that the Lord of Ultramar sees little else besides the primacy of his own culture. For him, all worlds might as well be Ultramar." - Diplomat Pyke

"I would have expected that suggestion from Ferrus, or maybe even Horus, but never Russ. He has a hidden depth that one" - Primarch Fulgrim

"The Wolves were the Emperor’s red right hand–monsters in their own way–but how easy it was to only see the savage, to fear the axe and miss the subtle knife." - Prmomus





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