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2000 semi competetive "horde thousand sons"

- - - - - Thousand sons tzeentch 2000

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#1
BoomWolf

BoomWolf

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Greetings mortals.
I've written a list for an upcoming local tournament and would like some review.
Our meta is semi casual, people play thier armies without much of any "power buying", few LOW or true spam around, mostly fluffy lists.

Forgive the poor list writing, I'm doing it on my phone.
The list :

Thousand sons battalion
+Ahriman on disk - warlord
+Winged prince, claw+sword
+Scarabs, with soulreaper and missile
+Scarabs, with soulreaper and missile
+brute with power scourge and twin heavy bolter
+Rubrics, axe sorcerer, 5 bolters, soulreaper
+Rubrics, axe sorcerer, 5 bolters, soulreaper
+Rubrics, axe sorcerer, 6 bolters, soulreaper

Deamons battalion
+Herald of tzeentch
+Changing
+Exalted flamer
+Exalted flamer
+Exalted flamer
+Horrors, 5 blue 5 brimes
+Horrors, 5 blue 5 brimes
+Horrors, 4 blue 6 brimes



The plan:

Pretty much hammer and anvil style offensive.
Scarabs drop to pressure the back, rubrics and exalted march up front with the cover of changling horrors (took by model availability) with the herald helping them be CQC viable, while ahriman buffs guys and warptime the prince/brute to the attack when opportunity arises, with overlapping auras buffing everyone around.

With 9 CP I can afford to use the casting stratagem every turn to get the most of ahriman, and when facing psykers I'll give him the deny trait, denying on +1 with reroll ensures arcane superiority, and I can afford to tech spells as needed as he has a free spell slot.
Prince takes diabolic strength, ahriman has prescience, warptime and a tech Spell, changling takes boon to boost the combat abilities of nearby daemons as needed, and the herald picks treason and bolt to avoid overlaps. (even though both are bad spells)

Exalted flamers to help with anti-heavy duty (as it's only them, missiles and CQC) and assist the character targeting madness

Thoughts?
Critics?
Ideas?
Chicken?


Edited by BoomWolf, 20 December 2017 - 05:22 AM.


#2
bozo69pd

bozo69pd

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I have been struggling putting together my TS lists so let me know how your games go, I have a similar collection of models. The only thing I know is that sometimes not having Magnus is hard >.<



#3
BoomWolf

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Well, reporting initial results.

Minor changes to list, in the end went with claw-sword prince, so he'll be WYSIWYG. and the list had 1 more bolter dude in each squad, I wrote wrong-fixed it in the main post.

 

Naturally, the list struggled as I'm hardly experienced at using these models, or playing 8th in general (I finished building some of them the night before the games XD)

 

BUT, I've got 5 games under my belt with these, with some insights to come from them.

 

Games

 

First game was nids a hydra/kronos meshup. two genestealer blobs, two carnifex (cant remember variants) led by old one eye, miasma cannon flyrant, tyrannofex, some temegaunts, 3 biovores, 3 hive guard. playing 5 objectives.

It was pretty brutal, I was sure I'm getting overwhelmed at the begging, but the horrors softened the initial blow enough (keeping the stealers away from anything of value and allowing me to pick my fights a bit), and eventually I managed to pick off the stealers (thank tzeentch for cabal-casting death hex.), and once I did the game opened up a bit.

Killing the fexes was difficult, and charging OOE with my prince was NOT a good idea, as he got mulched.

Eventually I've won, by the skin of my teeth. could not take his back lines, but did enough to push back the initial nid agression and conquer the middle ground.

 

Second game was against my necron buddy that I actually mostly play against. was a 4 objective "stacking points" game (at the end of your turn you get 1 VP for each objective you control)

He brought two doom scythes, a 20 man warrior blob with a supporting arc and szeares buffing, a tezzaract ark (FW, nasty tank.), some wraiths, tomb blades and destroyers.

I got first turn and decided to go very agressive. charged right down the center with a lot of my guys, and it...didn't quite work out. he planned his list to go for objectives, and that panned out even worse somehow.

I managed to do some decent damage, and put some pressure, but not enough to cripple him-and over the course of the game things slowly came back to life for every squad I didn't finish off. what began in my aggressive, quickly turned to him systematically annihilating my forward pushing forces.

But it took him time. too much time. and I was raking points from controlling most objective most turns.

By the end of it, I've been nearly taken out while he still had quite a lot of his stuff (damn reanimation protocols), but was in a heavy lead in points by the time the turn timer ended, and he just couldn't finish me off as the list was built to take a beating-nor could he scramble to capture objectives in time.

We both ended up doing the opposite of our plan, but my list was just better for going off the rails and engaging in a mess of a fight while keeping pressure at multiple fronts compared to his impenetrable phalanx.

 

Third Game, killpoint variant against ulthwe. the dude was competitive, with a good list and good plays. a wraithknight, two hemlocks three dire avenger squads in waves, some jetbikes, a vyper, farseer, war walker, and I think a warlock-all as . I got my ass handed to me, and gave up after my forth turn. I consider it not a bad result, given that he was the overall winner, and the tabled almost everyone else by turn 3. also, I managed to take out the knight and the highlight was the horrors dealing 4 wounds to it in a turn. (3 smites, and a cheecky melee wound), one of the jets (and nearly the other), the infantry, vyper, walker, and such. he still had his 3 waves, bikes and farseer, but I still had a few things myself-just not enough to actually take him out. I probably have been able to hold on by being a coward and hiding, had my hail-merry attempt of trying to take out the second hemlock by charging with ahriman did not fail so spectacularly and he died to overwatch (that was expected, to happen with 2d3 autohits, but had he failed overwatch-I'd probably taken out the jet.)

 

Forth Game, against black legion in a 5 objective match. his list was a complete mess of units with various loadouts and stuff that I can hardly follow. he had a prince, DV chosen as WYSIWYG, a maulerfiend, some bikers, some CSM squads, oblits, termies, possessed, zerkers, raptors and i probably still forgetting something. a whole mess. it was mostly one sided in my favor, though I took more casualties than I should have due to being overly brazen, and allowing my characters to split up too much, losing their aura overlaps.

Best part was when I said "hell with this mauler" after he chewed up one of my rubric squads, and went in with ahriman who just cracked him open.

took me 6 turns, but I cleared his table. had in the end one rubric team, one scarab team, ahriman and two exalted remaining, but again-mostly due to my bad moves (was tired and hungry at the time), and some funny dice fails like my prince charging his dudes, failing to do anything, then his own prince charging and one-shooting mine.

 

Fifth game was against genestealer cults with allied AM armored battlegroup

Basically a hell lot of genestealers, acolytes and support chars getting in my face, while a bunch of tanks hammer me from the distance (commander with battle cannon, another battle cannon and 2 plasma cannon russes) again on stacking objective VPs

It was a complete mess honestly, with scarabs doing epic fails on one hand (failing to kill anyone in a mere acolyte unit, then getting mulched), and ahriman prepping death hexes to allow my rubrics to just vaporize stealers in mass.

We had to finish turn 4, and decided to draw as the result was too hard to tell-he had more power on the board (with his 4 tanks still there, but I had slightly more points, and a big annoyance moving his way (horrors with changling covering for an exalted that was already hammering on one of the tanks), was a fun game-but by that point I was exhausted and honestly I can't remember much details.

 

 

 

Unit performance:

 

The prince was a big let down. I just could not rely on him at all. the aura was nice when he was hiding in my lines, but that's the issue-he was hiding in my lines! the moment I got him to attack anything, he got hit back, and taken down. he was just hiding in the back of horrors until SOMETHING came in range, then tried to fight but was alone and got beaten easily. either way he wasn't worth his massive investment, as I just didn't have anything to back him up. he's just a bad fit.

 

Ahriman, dear god he was carving paths through the enemy. in every game he easily matched half his price in smites alone, and his support powers went a long way to assist and he was not too bad in combat either. I knew this from my previous games, but its a nice reminder just how good he is.

I'm actually not sold on the disk though. the only times he moved so much, or used the fact he flies, or the daemon auras, was when I tried to do something silly with him (and either failed horribly, or killed that maulerfiend)

 

Rubrics. bland and boring-but gets the job done. they took most opponents a serious effort to put down, and did reasonable damage in return. esp sorcerers are a total tax though, and I hope the codex makes them actually useful.

 

Scarabs. oh boy. mostly me being too aggressive on their drops, but they barely been worth the cost. when the worked-they cleaned house and conquered an entire flank on their own, but I gotta remember to NOT drop them trying to beat up anything though, but only to conquer poorly defended areas/take down backline squishies, or at least somewhere not completely isolated from my rubric lines.

 

Helbrute. almost forgot to mention him in this post, as I almost forgot he was on my list XD

He didn't do much except tank a few shots here and there. I don't think he killed his price even once, and it's not due to him being expensive, he rarely even got to combat-he just attracted way too much attention for his own good. not sure if thats a plus or a minus though.

 

Herald of tzeentch was mostly a tax. he smited stuff, but his aura rarely mattered, and his own spells suck so much I never used them. overall, meh.

 

Changling, but like the herald actually-didn't do much. sure he made my horrors harder to kill, and at times it extended to ahriman/price/flamers, but I have my doubts had it not been more effective to just get more horrors instead. at 100 points that's easily 25 or so more horrors from a blue/brim mix, who would both cover bigger zones off enemy drops, and be a bigger issue to remove than my current horror supply. in a pure Tdaemon list, he'd shine, but here its just not his place, no matter how infuriating it was to the enemy to get rid of horrors surrounding him.

 

Speaking of horrors. they did a fine job, and actually got some damage done with random smites. not sure if they'll remain viable after smite nerf beta rules though, as they mostly just took some beating and kept my characters safe from charges. with smite nerf taking down their damage output to practically zero, it might be better to include more guns instead.

 

The flamers were pretty good. though I have a feeling they were held back by the fact they wanted to advance and take firing positions, but could not afford to when my army slugged behind. in an assault army like actual daemons, they would probably fare much better.

 

 

Sidenotes

 

Overall, the mismash of some units that stand back and shoot, others that want to press forward while avoiding actual CQC, and yet others trying to get into CQC but don't have the backup to do so make it difficult for the list to stand. I could go for any of multiple plans, but didn't pull any of them very well, and while I DID manage to keep eveyone off their comfort zone and often confused by my apparent lack of a rational battle plan, I was just as confused myself and easily made mistakes that in retrospective I should not have made (like isolating my scarabs trying to hit some threat rather than making a concentrated push against nids, 

 

Also, I had 9 CPs, but not really any excuse to use that many. I don't have "high roll" weapons that get a single super powerful shot to spend my reroll on, and past turn 3-4 the focus stopped being effective (loss of targets for any meaningful spells, or not having enough Tsons around to both be where I want to be and trigger it.) the upcoming codex will probably solve this by giving more options, and will also make the initial strike (and termy drops) far more meaningful as a side-effect.

This list don't have access to the great VoTLW who will likely come in codex that makes dropping termies much better.

Nor chaos familiar to upgrade your aspiring sorcerers on the fly from mini-smite to real spells. sudden gift of chaos appearing ANYWHERE where a big meany is too close to my dudes could have been brutal. (though come codex, we will probably have our variation switch to a spell of our own list, and I don't know if any of them will have the same "gotcha!" effect.)

Various other stratagems that are also great could influence list building by much. like daemonforge making a daemon engine of sorts far more valuable.

 

The abundance of daemon auras was actually a downside for the army. it encouraged me too much to group up and being a powerblob, and made spreading out to grab territory difficult, while not actually supplying all that much of a benefit. the combined prince/herald/changling auras made even the simple horror a threat, but it also meant that anywhere besides the small radius around the hero blob, I was powerless-and losing any hero was a significant loss, making me unwilling and somewhat unable to properly use them.

 

This list isn't a total miss, but it needs refinement.

Horrors need to be built to have a proper 8brime 2blue ratio, at least by current rules. who knows what will happen after their codex.

Changling fills the HQ tax better than herald, but that's just because the herald is SO unimpressive. changling is amazing, but somehow not good enough? basically he suffers from being a buffer in a slightly herohammer list-he got an amazing buff, but not enough to give the buff to.

This list needs less herohammer, more boots on the ground. especially now that there isn't much use for all these CPs. I could easily afford to shave points off the daemons by losing the herald and having a patrol (though I'd have to give up a flamer as well) and then maybe piling on more regular daemons (guess I could take 

I just don't have enough bodies to actually benefit from all these auras I've got running around, and some of the auras don't actually promote my list.

 

 

It have been educational to me to play this list. and even writing this made me realize a few things.

Maybe it will assist other sons of prospero.



#4
bozo69pd

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Thanks for the info. Your results seem to echo what others have said. Personally DP with all claws is a must in my opinion but you need at least 2 of them. I think something like Fateweaver, LoC, Belakor, or Magnus would improve your results as well... and by cutting your loser units you could squeeze them in. I'm waiting for the Daemon Codex results before I do anything definitive, but I am thinking about shifting from horrors to Alpha legion cultists (possibly with rubricae elites to infiltrate).







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