Long Range fire Support Advice for 8th edition nooob

[Gnosis]

Hi!

 

Lately I am lurking to the forums and I really enjoy reading battle reports and 40k discussion in B&C.

I have played non stop all the editions starting with 4rth edition but due to moving to a different area I haven't played an 8th edition game yet.

Now I decided to play again 40k more actively and I thought that asking for advice would be a good idea

I am new to the 8th edition and I would like to ask for some list building advice for my Thousand Sons.

 

In the previous edition I was really used to Traitor legions supplement and I loved that every codex option was accessible. I used to play terminators with plasma, Havocs with autocannons Ahriman and msu rubrics... those with a couple of contemptors was my favorite playstyle

 

Now in this edition  havocs and normal terminators arent a pure TS option so what should I do?

 

1) Is it a good idea to buy Codex: CSM? what stuff should I buy in order to have updated rules for Thousand sons now? Is Chapter approved also a good buy for Thousand Sons rules?

 

2) Now I am also working on a 8th edition style thousand sons list with the newly released Scarabs and all

    My goal it to make a list that is good all commers at 2K points, fun to play, and relatively ballanced

 

  my initial thought looks like this:

 

Ahriman on Disk

5x Scarab Occult with soulreaper and missile

5xScarab Occult with soulreaper and missile

10x Rubrics with soulreaper + Rhino

10x Rubrics with soulreaper + Rhino

30x Tzangors

 

+ some Long Range firepower

 

which Long Range firepower option would you choose and why?

would 3 predators or 3 forgefiends be a good idea?

are multiples of forgefieds a good idea? or I should avoid them?

or perhaps I should just add as many lascannon/missile hellbrutes as possible?

My main problem is that the forgefields predators and defilers are ugly kits...

And I kind of like the idea of the hellbrute but their models and rules dont persuade me...

I am really confused

Also I have a knight titan... but I am reluctant to play with him as in my local area play lots of kids...

 

Any advice for  Long Range Firesupport and comments on the "core" of my list is really apreciated

 

Thanks in advance

Edited December 15, 2017 by Gnosis

[Nym]

Hi !

 

1) To answer your first question : I (and many others) bought the CSM codex because right now, Thousand Sons are in a pretty bad spot (especially if you don't want to run Magnus). I personnaly run my army as Alpha Legion. Chapter approved is *not* needed. It brings nothing that you can't find on the net under 1 minute.

 

2) Buying 20 Rubrics is a good start, but I wouldn't run them like that. 10 Rubrics + Soulreaper + Rhino is awfully expensive (almost 300pts) for very little offensive power. I would advise squads of 5 Rubrics with Soulreaper to capture objectives in cover (122pts) and squads of 5-6 with 3-4 Warpflamers in Rhino if you want to go forward.

 

For long range fire support, more than 1 Forgefiend / Defiler is a liability. These models *need* the Daemon Forge stratagem to be on-par with Predators / Obliterators and you can only use it once per turn. Both are ok though if you have the stratagem (you need a CSM detachment for that though). Note : with their reduced cost, a swarm of Defilers can actually be fun and strong for a close-combat oriented army.

 

Helbrutes are okish (Thousand Sons) to very good (Alpha Legion). If you take a CSM detachment, Obliterators are probably the best fire support you can get though.

 

As for ugly models... I used to hate the Forgefiend model, but with a bit of conversion it comes out rather nicely (I just put both cannons on one side, made it stand upward with the left hand leaning on a wall and I only gave him 4 limbs instead of 6). I'll post a WIP of mine when I can.

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Nym

[Tamika]

Helbrutes and find the forgeworld kit from ebay :)

[Gnosis]

Thanks for the input guys :)

I really appreciate the feedback!

 

It looks like the safest choice for Long range  fire support  would be a couple of predators and perhaps a couple of Hellbrutes.

 

Do you think that scarab occult would be useful?

right now they look like rubrics with deep strick. I believe that they will be a very fun unit to play when the codex drops

but now normal termis with plasma and some powerfists could work better..

[Nym]

Do you think that scarab occult would be useful?

They *are* useful, sure. They're our only Deepstriking unit... But are they good ? Not really.

 

The way I run them, they cost 255pts. For the same cost I could have 5 Slaanesh Terminators or for 195pts, 3 Obliterators. Both these units outdamage Scarabs and aren't much more fragile because of the way "All Is Dust" works.

 

Imo, Scarabs are mandatory in our lists. And useful. Just don't expect them to do much. They're bullies that go after weak units, while regular Terminators and Obliterators are MVPs that take out your opponent's stronger units.

[Tamika]

Why are Scarabs mandatory?

[Archaeinox]

i get more mileage from rubrics. 10 guys taking 5++ vs. multi dmg weapons vs. 5 guys taking 5++ vs multi dmg wpns

[Sonoftherubric21]

I have mixed opinions, I love scarabs, but I think that Nym's opinion is probably right as of this moment (so pre-codex) 

 

I presume the 255 load out is hellfyre/soul reaper, and 2 scarabs + Sorcerer Sargent. Which is a good standard to go with given the cheap soulreaper cost. 

They lack the same "kick" that chaos termies do. They *will* come in and delete anything weak, marine groups, anything T4 or less with any kind of armor save is going to have a very bad day with scarab occult dropping. they basically will cripple or outright kill weak units upon entry, and if lucky be decent in assault against weaker units, but they arent like other terminators in that generally chaos termies drop and pop and can obliterate really big nasty stuff (T8 tanks, bigger walkers, daemon engines, flyers/skimmers that can out maneuver us).

 

Please bare in mind that I see our stratagems fixing this issue. The issue of monsters/big nasties is left to our AT weaponry, helbrutes, hellfyre missiles, las preds, some spells, and contemptors/leviathans. 

 

I mean Vets of the Long War *Alone* would give the scarab occult something incredibly potent to work with, anything less then T8 should be scared of a scarab occult squad dropping and pouring inferno rounds into it. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Sonoftherubric21

[Nym]

Why are Scarabs mandatory?

Because this is a game where capturing objectives is vital, and an edition where Deepstrike is almighty. The more deepstriking units one has, the stronger his army gets.

 

Being able to capture objectives anywhere at any time (let's be honest, by turn 3 most games are over) makes them mandatory in an army of very slow moving dudes with little firepower.

 

Please note, however, that it's just my (not so) humble opinion. 

[Paladin777]

Case in point of VotLW, I’ve had a 7man SOT squad one-shot a predator coming out of deep strike without it, so how nasty would they be with it! To be fair, they did have prescience cast on them though.

 

I was playing against an alpha legion list that completely outmaneuvered me (as AL does) and still came out on top and would never have if I didn’t bring 2 squads of SOT’s.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Paladin777

[Skerr]

Im with Nym on the termies. They are great as a precision bully force though not a take all comers unit.

 

Hopefully they get buffed because they r also an auto include for me due to rule of cool. Would love to see the SOT sorcerer have a str buff to the unit.

 

On long range fire power i use preds though am thinking of a deimos predator kit though undecided on which one would best fit a 1000 sons list.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Skerr

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Im with Nym on the termies. They are great as a precision bully force though not a take all comers unit.

 

Hopefully they get buffed because they r also an auto include for me due to rule of cool. Would love to see the SOT sorcerer have a str buff to the unit.

 

On long range fire power i use preds though am thinking of a deimos predator kit though undecided on which one would best fit a 1000 sons list.

I personally use Deimos for that "ancient" feel....and most of my army is 2nd Ed scale, so I use the old plastic/metal combo version. I even have RT-era monopose Rubricae with some converted metal lascannon marines for Soulreaper gunners.

 

Others I would suggest for long range:

 

Las/Missile or Reaper/Missile Helbrutes

Sicaran, Scorpius, or Laser Destroyer Vindicator (if you're into FW)

LR Achilles (Again-FW) mortal wounds without LOS and can carry a Sorcerer and 5 Rubricae). Especially cool since the TS were one of the first Legions to be gifted with the Achilles by the Imperial Fists.

 

Mix of Defilers and Forgefiends protected by the Changeling.

[Gnosis]

Hi guys!

thanks everybody for the help!

what I did was to convert two hellbrutes with lasscannon and powerfist for my 1500 points list.

I suppose its not the best choice but I will try them and see what happens. In 2000 points I will add also a couple of predators.

And hopefully in a couple of months we will get a new daemon engine in our new codex. :)

 

what preds do you guys use ? Do you think Predator Autocannon is worth it or it is all lascannons this edition?

 

Do you think that a helldrake with its fast movement is a good addition as a distraction unit for thousand sons?

maybe it could  charge opponent tanks etc and do some work. but I dont know

[Archaeinox]

that predator autocannon will eat up:

 

-Primaris Marines NOT in cover

-Demon Princes caught with their pants down

-Centurians and Obliterators (yes, shoot them even if they get a 2+ save because the 3 damage is worth it)

 

 

With the 9 point loss for the autocannon, its incredible. Lascannons on the sponsons and goooo.

 

The heldrake is great but you will find that you are just tying stuff up and then getting blown to bits however in a Thousand Sons list we NEED that pressure. Strongly recommend considering one, though personally I go with more Rubrics. Among the best Troops in the game. 

[yergerjo]

Last night I ran 3 predators, 2 auto/laz and 1 triple laz.

 

The Predator strategem from CSM, is beautiful as is the ignore moving penalties one. Especially near Ahriman for Prescience and DP to reroll 1s.

 

First turn the Triples nearly one shot a Sicaran....had to finish the 1 wound off with another Pred...

[Prot]

I find Slaanesh Obliterators trump any other option I’ve tried. But if you’re going to play hardcore TS I think you have to learn to tie up stuff as well. You’ve got some good advice on Scarabs, I’m one of those that falls on the negative side of their value, but as everyone says.... you’re almost forced into using them.

 

I think like myself a lot of people are in a holding pattern until the real goods drop!

[MoGuy]

Any success with LC+ML Helbrutes? Edited December 31, 2017 by MoGuy

[Raven1]

Any success with LC+ML Helbrutes?

I have had some success. One is good in smaller games, no CCW means he isn't as good when someone finally reaches him in the fight phase. In larger games you will want multiples, in those games I drop him and go for tri-las preds.