Best Anti Air

[lash144]

Hey folks,

 

so had a game against Eldar yesterday and it was a tough one... I made some tactical mistakes, but I think it really come down to the point, that I couldn´t deal with his flyers....

He had a Hermlock Wraithfighter and another one (forgot the name) and he was wrecking my russes with them, while a had problems hitting him... Man this -1 / -2 is really hard.

 

So how are you countering air? If you counter it at all? 

My first thought were some Hydras, but those seem pretty lackluster tbh... (especially when your opponent isn´t bringing flyers) tbh

[Lord Marshal]

Neat thing with Hydras these days is how much stuff now has the Fly rule that previously had Skimmer; Jetbikes, Tau Battlesuits, etc. I'd say it's worth bringing one in an all-comers list just because of how much stuff it benefits from shooting at now compared to 7th.

[Devloveslasguns]

Hey folks,

 

so had a game against Eldar yesterday and it was a tough one... I made some tactical mistakes, but I think it really come down to the point, that I couldn´t deal with his flyers....

He had a Hermlock Wraithfighter and another one (forgot the name) and he was wrecking my russes with them, while a had problems hitting him... Man this -1 / -2 is really hard.

 

So how are you countering air? If you counter it at all? 

My first thought were some Hydras, but those seem pretty lackluster tbh... (especially when your opponent isn´t bringing flyers) tbh

It's pretty tough, Hydra's are no good as the first thing the Hemlock does is wreck the Hydra. Smite doesn't work as Eldar block it too easy. As they are likely to go first it just costs you the tank to keep your Russ alive for a turn. As crazy as it sounds plasma Scions or just good old-fashioned static Cadian massed fire seems to work for me. Put a wound on it with FRFSRF and then pay 2cp for the +1 to hit and fire everything you have at them. Alternatively, if you do want dedicated anti-air I find a couple of Hydra gun emplacements instead of the tank is a better investment.

 

As a slight variation to this theme I recently discovered the best thing to wreck the annoying Vipers or just jetbikes in general is Bulgryns. Just three Bullgryns charging a squad of Vipers smashed them to pieces on the charge. 

[Tirak]

Lightnings or Thunderbolts with Skystrikes. The price increase sucked on the base hull but the Skystrike is still solid and comes in large enough numbers to be useful. It's a shame missile launchers don't have an anti air firing mode.

[duz_]

I would say the Avenger or Thunderbolt, but now with CA I'm not sure how well the number stack up?
The Stormhawk Interceptor is decent as AA, but not IG... 

[Feral_80]

Our anti-air is rather weak and stacking -1 hit on Eldar is broken. Best solution is avoid offering juicy targets (eg tank commanders), distribute your threats, and close distance under 12" with most of your units. Then pretty much any weapon will do (I'd forget about the Hydra).

[Halfpint100]

Hellhounds. Hellhounds everywhere

[lash144]

Hellhounds. Hellhounds everywhere

 

I like the idea but:

- you have to come in range

- you wound only on 5+

- only D1

[Halfpint100]

 

 

Hellhounds. Hellhounds everywhere

I like the idea but:

- you have to come in range

- you wound only on 5+

- only D1

Elder fliers are T6 I belive. So 4+ and a 16" range with 12" move can be suprisingly good at getting in range

[duz_]

It might only be D1, but you get 2D6 hits

[librisrouge]

 

Hellhounds. Hellhounds everywhere

 

I like the idea but:

- you have to come in range

- you wound only on 5+

- only D1

 

I hate to counter your very well founded points with mere anecdotal evidence, but hellhounds have worked well for me against flyers. The 1 damage and wounding on 5s sucks, for sure, but hitting automatically helps a lot with this.

[Jolemai]

Sabres?

[Mileposter]

 

Hellhounds. Hellhounds everywhere

 

I like the idea but:

- you have to come in range

- you wound only on 5+

- only D1

 

I've been absolutely wrecked by a pair of Hellhounds taking out my fliers. Hurt even worse, because it was Catachan.

[micahwc]

Came here to say Hellhounds. The best anti-air tank the guard has.

[lash144]

I hear so many good things about the hellhound, I think its finally time to try it out ;)

[librisrouge]

They won’t disappoint. I’m thinking of picking up a third.

[bigmic66]

Pask with lascannon/battle cannon

[bigmic66]

With price decrease and better explodes result, is the fw variant better?

[lash144]

With price decrease and better explodes result, is the fw variant better?

 

Dunno its 20 points less for D6 instead D3 mortal wounds. But you got the old turret weapon with D6 shots and D2 instead auf 2D6 D1.

I think I like the 2D6 version more, because (especially with Catachan) you can get some pretty reliable anti infantry.

[bigmic66]

Fair enough. I play cadian so haven't really used either often.

[Malakithe]

The FW one is different in a lot of areas..its hard to compare. Its D6 shots but you choose from 2D6 and pick the highest. Rerolling one if Catachan. Str and AP are the same but Dmg 2. Explodes for D6 MW too. Also 20ish points less. So if you have room you can choose either one. If your trying to go light on points then the FW variant for sure.

 

Aside from flyers the entire meta is shifting to a strange stack -1 to hit everywhere. Nids have a ton of sources of -1 to hit, Eldar have a ton. DA have it too. Going to get more rough out there.

[bigmic66]

Yeah I'm preferring tank commanders for that reason.

[Malakithe]

If your already taking TCs then yeah that will work but I wouldnt slot them in for that purpose alone. I think the key to victory is going to be overlapping fields of fire as if we all dont use that enough already lol

[lash144]

Yeah I'm preferring tank commanders for that reason.

I had two tank commanders, guess where those eldar flyers went to first ^^

 

With this whole -1 to hit I think I will try out a different playstyle:

- mass Catachan infantry (for +1 leadership and strength)

- Hellhounds

- Leman russ conquerors for reroll to hit within 24"

[Feral_80]

Hellhounds are great, but not that great against fliers.

Wounding at 4+ (or even 5+ vs serious fliers) and with only AP -1, they won't score many wounds. Add the fact that most fliers have an absurdly high number of wounds (12-14) and you'll struggle to cripple even one.

 

Long-range fire is dead, and I'm very sorry about it. This -1 hit has messed up the game pretty bad. Just retune your whole army to engage the enemy at 12", and do your best. Hellhounds are an excellent asset in that case, but they are only a part of your force.

 

Leave at home Tank commanders vs Eldar fliers: as already stated, they will simply blow up turn 1 and you'll have made your opponent a big favour by fielding them.