GW Beta Psychic rules

[Grendaxe]

For those who havent seen it yet:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/15/the-future-of-faqs-and-chapter-approved-dec-15gw-homepage-post-2/

 

Beta psychic rule:

Subtract 1 from the result of any psychic test taken when attempting to manifest Smite for each other attempt (wether successful or not) that has been made to manifest Smite during this Psychic phase.

 

My thoughts:

1. Hopefully this means they change how rubrics/scarabs work in general

2. If nothing changes it makes our crappy smites even worse 

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Grendaxe

[The Yncarne]

Get me my smite stick.

[Paladin777]

Then our squad sorcerers had better get something in return! An exemption would suffice as well...

[BoomWolf]

Or real smite.

If they have real smites, it's still good even on growing difficulty.

[Sonoftherubric21]

is that 1 damage smite really all that critical?  I use it occasionally but i find the fear of backfiring far outstrips the single wound it can deal. 

 

I doubt that this somehow magically cripples our infantry lol. Although I do think something will occur with our aspirings when the codex releases, I honestly think the "swap strategem" is more then enough for us to make them useful. 

[Paladin777]

When you have 5 squads on the field that’s 5 more mortal wounds a turn. That’s a whole MSU tac squad.

 

I always use my watery smites last during the phase and only if I have a reroll available. If you have the backup reroll I think they are absolutely worth it.

[Grendaxe]

Its not just the rubrics and scarabs though. For example i always use smite on magnus,ahriman and 2 daemon princes. Thats getting nerfed as well. 
Also remember that subtract 1 from each cast means a 3rd smite cast CANNOT do D6 wounds anymore without any bonuses to cast.
 

So if i look at my list, i'm going to be already effected heavily by this. ALways starting with magnus to try and get 2D6 smite. Then ahriman casts without bonus. Daemon prince 1 at -2 and daemon prince 2 casts at -3 (so needs a 8!!!). After that casting smite with rubrics/scarabs is pointless unless you go for a suicide bomber.

 

They say just rely on other powers but other offensive powers suck so hard. For example our new shiny tzeentch firestorm = 0.8 wounds on average
Whats that going to do?

 

Clear chaff? smite is more effective.

Sniper a character? Need 4+ turns. WHO BOTHERS to take 4+ turns to kill a character?? Just cast smite and shoot your way to that character. 

Hit a tank? well a 18 wound LR is going to be impressed. Only 22.5 turn to kill it amazing!

 

Guess i gotta write a e-mail to GW with some feedback. Because i don't mind the smite nerf. I get why they want do it but THIS just going to kill TS/GK and Tzeentch daemons and all other armies are just going to move back to their own thing and we get stuck with this  .

[Sonoftherubric21]

I mean with daemon princes, ahriman, magnus, and 1-2 other smites you can still reliably make it go off. just not the baby-smites. 

I think our codex will handle this issue fairly well, I dont forsee them throwing us under the bus in that regard.  I would imagine we will have access to 2 full lores of powers, along with our strategems. 

[Arkhanist]

I think there'd need to be an exception for baby smites, such as Grey Knights and Rubrics as they're already less powerful smites and its part of their design. Cheap smite spam is a problem though, so it does need to be addressed somehow.

[Grendaxe]

I don't call casting a smite on a daemon prince at WC7/8 reliable when its an above average throw. And I was un-aware that my magnus/ahriman and 2 DP combo was already going over the top and tabling people.

 

Besides when they announced the 8th edition the proudly introduced the better scaling of psykers in the new system.

First we had the rule of 1 and now smite is hardly worth after the 2nd/3rd cast. In what possible situation are exalted sorcerers ever going to get on the table?

[Grendaxe]

I think there'd need to be an exception for baby smites, such as Grey Knights and Rubrics as they're already less powerful smites and its part of their design. Cheap smite spam is a problem though, so it does need to be addressed somehow.

 

Then they should address the cheap psykers or have kept the mastery levels and restricted the powers based on that. This just nerfs everything that relies on psychic power.

[Zodd1888]

Guys you may be missing something here.

 

If smite is being minimized in it's overall effectiveness for the army they'll either make us have a new MW generation option (ie. On 6 w/ Inferno MW), provide an exception for our armies in the rules, or reduce our point costs.

 

I mentioned previously that the delayed codex was likely linked to their smite adjustment. This release makes me feel like during beta testing and initial release TS needed a rework, just like smite.

[Raven1]

It certainly is going to effect and harshly effect armies like GK and TS vut anything psychic heavy really. Although if this Smite change caused our codex to be partially rewritten im afraud of what our codex would have looked like.

[Khannis]

This worries me as well. I'll personally try to avoid this rules in my local games if I can, at least until our codex can provide viable alternatives.

I know how MW Spam is viewed in general, but I think at this point this is a gross overreaction. If you want to nerf something, nerf 4 point guardsmen or multiple -1 to Hit stacking sources, and honestly I can't think of a single army that deserves this nerf after the CA points adjustments (Malefic Lords especially).

[Raven1]

Right Malefic Lords were scary because you could cast full smite half dozen times or more with them and have an army left over to kill your opponent but now, who knows. Same with pinks why nerf the Smite uses unit and nerf Smite...

[Archaeinox]

I never cast on the scarabs.. Losing d3 wounds on the squad if he perils is NOT worth it.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I never cast on the scarabs.. Losing d3 wounds on the squad if he perils is NOT worth it.

 

Bingo. 

 

 

 

I don't call casting a smite on a daemon prince at WC7/8 reliable when its an above average throw. And I was un-aware that my magnus/ahriman and 2 DP combo was already going over the top and tabling people.

 

Besides when they announced the 8th edition the proudly introduced the better scaling of psykers in the new system.

First we had the rule of 1 and now smite is hardly worth after the 2nd/3rd cast. In what possible situation are exalted sorcerers ever going to get on the table?

 

After the 2nd cast? you think a 6 or more is unreliable on 2 dice? 

 

taking this into account 3 smite casts is still a fairly good chance in any given turn, I just will neglect the baby smites....which is most certainly NOT the reason i take Rubricae, and as stated above throwing that on Scarab Occult is far to much of a risk IMHO. 

 

My Exalteds hit the table fairly frequently but only in bigger games, anything below 2k its automatically Ahriman + Daemon Prince since we lack other aura options. 

 

I am sure once we get our dex we will be sorted out just fine, I would imagine we will *probably* have dark hereticus + whatever the 1k sons lore comes up with, and plenty of strategems to benefit us.  That alone would more then fix the faction with some minor points drops on a couple things. (Rubrics I really love as is but I wouldnt be miffed if they dropped them to 18 with inferno bolts included or something equivocal) 

[Nym]

I think they took the wrong road on this one... Smite should have been "closest unit suffers 1d6 wounds (not Mortal Wounds)", this way Infernal Gaze, Tzeentch Firestorm and all similar powers would have had their niche (MW).

 

And even then, Smite's problem has never been its damage but the cost of the Spellcaster. Dealing 1.66 wounds per turn for a 98pts model (Sorcerer) is hardly broken. Doing the same with a 45pts Primaris psyker is a different horse altogether.

 

Smite was the only thing we had from a competitive standpoint. Now our Aspiring Sorcerers are bigger deadweights than ever and our Exalted are even more worthless compared with regular Sorcerers.

 

PS : they better make Tzeentch Firestorm a WC 5 power in return... Last night I did 2 wounds with it in 3 turns.

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Nym

[Grendaxe]

 

 

After the 2nd cast? you think a 6 or more is unreliable on 2 dice? 

 

taking this into account 3 smite casts is still a fairly good chance in any given turn, I just will neglect the baby smites....which is most certainly NOT the reason i take Rubricae, and as stated above throwing that on Scarab Occult is far to much of a risk IMHO. 

 

My Exalteds hit the table fairly frequently but only in bigger games, anything below 2k its automatically Ahriman + Daemon Prince since we lack other aura options. 

 

I am sure once we get our dex we will be sorted out just fine, I would imagine we will *probably* have dark hereticus + whatever the 1k sons lore comes up with, and plenty of strategems to benefit us.  That alone would more then fix the faction with some minor points drops on a couple things. (Rubrics I really love as is but I wouldnt be miffed if they dropped them to 18 with inferno bolts included or something equivocal) 

 

 

After the 2nd cast is on the 3th smite cast which would be at -2 so its WC7 and not possible to roll 10+ for the D6.

 

And no i do not take the rubrics/scarabs for the smite but did cast the smite if there was a scary T5+ model standing in-front of them. Because how else to deal with this T5+ with our TS?

You are going to shoot it with inferno bolters and pray to tzeentch you roll nothing but fives and sixes?

 

 

[yergerjo]

This is why we got our crappy strategem, to offset the scaling smite...

 

 

Lol.

 

Makes perfect GW sense.

[Archaeinox]

Check my post in Salty codex info. GW is responding and giving hints that there might be some addition stuff. Yes, we know we are getting powers... but still.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

 

After the 2nd cast? you think a 6 or more is unreliable on 2 dice? 

 

taking this into account 3 smite casts is still a fairly good chance in any given turn, I just will neglect the baby smites....which is most certainly NOT the reason i take Rubricae, and as stated above throwing that on Scarab Occult is far to much of a risk IMHO. 

 

My Exalteds hit the table fairly frequently but only in bigger games, anything below 2k its automatically Ahriman + Daemon Prince since we lack other aura options. 

 

I am sure once we get our dex we will be sorted out just fine, I would imagine we will *probably* have dark hereticus + whatever the 1k sons lore comes up with, and plenty of strategems to benefit us.  That alone would more then fix the faction with some minor points drops on a couple things. (Rubrics I really love as is but I wouldnt be miffed if they dropped them to 18 with inferno bolts included or something equivocal) 

 

 

After the 2nd cast is on the 3th smite cast which would be at -2 so its WC7 and not possible to roll 10+ for the D6.

 

And no i do not take the rubrics/scarabs for the smite but did cast the smite if there was a scary T5+ model standing in-front of them. Because how else to deal with this T5+ with our TS?

You are going to shoot it with inferno bolters and pray to tzeentch you roll nothing but fives and sixes?

 

 

 

 

Well considering we will soon have access to "vets of the long war" T5-7 is less of a concern then you'd think. (we can finnagle access to it now through a CSM detachment, but we will 100% get this when our codex comes out) 

 

Basic bolters can cause severe damage with it, our bolters are just short of monstrous with it..... Putting wounds fairly reliably onto anything that is T7 or less. 

[Commissar K.]

I see it like this, if it means the costs heavily drop, thats cool too.

In reality though we could also see a Tzeentch Smite variant for itself, one that can be cast by all, no downsides etc.

[MillionsSons]

Nothing official yet.

They say these beta rules will be tested in competition in Las Vegas, and if user feedbacks are ok they will be officially included in March in the next big FAQ.

Hope remain then, hopefully there will be TS players to complain about it in Las Vegas...

 

And by March we should have our Codex I hope!!

[Amun Ra]

Nothing official yet.

They say these beta rules will be tested in competition in Las Vegas, and if user feedbacks are ok they will be officially included in March in the next big FAQ.

Hope remain then, hopefully there will be TS players to complain about it in Las Vegas...

 

And by March we should have our Codex I hope!!

Would not be too happy as a 1k sons or Grey Knight player attending that event..