Upcoming Tournament

[Captain Idaho]

I'm taking my Ultramarines to a tournament in January. My list choice is pretty set because of models available but I wanted to start a discussion on what sort of hurdles Ultramarines will have to overcome to win our games?

 

Major challenges such as gun lines lead by Guilliman is a particular worry for me. Imperial Guard/Astra Millitarum with ALL the tanks could be a problem.

 

Hmmm what else? Dark Angels and Blood Angels are superior to us in most games so I think a balanced list of either is going to be difficult for me but if they specialise their armylist along shooting and close combat respectively I actually fancy my chances.

 

Here's my list:

 

Battalion Detachment

 

Captain - Plasma Pistol, Relic Blade and Sanctic Halo

 

Lieutenant - Mastercrafted Bolter and Chainsword

 

Tactical Squad - ×10. Plasma gun, combi plasma and Grav Cannon

 

Tactical Squad - ×10. Plasma gun, combi plasma and Heavy Bolter

 

Tactical Squad - ×5. Plasma gun, combi plasma

 

Sternguard - ×8. All with Special Issue Bolters and Power Axe on the Sergeant

 

Rhino

 

Vanguard - ×10. Dual lightning claws ×4, Storm Shield and Chainsword ×3 and dual chainsword ×3

 

Devastator squad - ×6. Missile Launchers ×4, Armourium Cherub

 

Vanguard Detachment

 

Techmarine - Chainsword, bolter and Servo Arm

 

Contemptor Dreadnought - Kheres assault cannon

 

Venerable Dreadnought - Twin linked Lascannon and missile Launcher

 

Cataphractii Terminators - ×5. Grenade Harness and Chainfist on Sergeant, Chainfists ×1 and power fist ×3

 

Auxiliary Detachment

 

Culexus Assassin

 

21pts spare

 

It's struggling points wise to make many changes without losing a crucial attack force and I know the Terminators need their Captain for added punch when I drop the Vanguard and Terminators onto the enemy.

 

The Techmarine was included simply because he was cheap and helped my Dreadnought more than a Chaplain would help the Sternguard and Captain.

 

The Culexus Assassin is amazing and a trump card. He's the reason I had to ditch my lovely Captain in Cataphractii armour.

 

Anyway, you can see that my list has large numbers and a mix between attacking potential and a shooting support base. I have used to it defeat a friend's Grey Knights who is a highly competetive player (as well as other less competetive players).

 

I fancy my chances against most Marines lists. I reckon I can beat Tyranids except maybe their gun line armies.

 

Like I said, it's things like Guilliman protecting a gunline. My attack force will meet a Primarch and probably die when I need it, along with my shooting, to take out the gunline.

[greatcrusade08]

looks like a great list, plasma is great in this edition and if a captain is near, no harm in supercharging the plasma when you need to.

I wonder if there is anything other than snipers that can single out strong characters like big G. maybe the odd psychic spell?

Would you ever change your list to accommodate going against primarches. Especially with new ones looming

[Captain Idaho]

I might have to! What do we consider the best way to kill Guilliman or neutralise him?

 

He's not invincible and if I could charge him with both the Vanguard and the Cataphractii, I'd do some damage whilst having the staying power to survive him a few turns.

 

That's a lot of commitment of resources for me. I'd rather use those units to tear the heart out of the opposition. Besides, Guilliman likely won't be easily targeted.

[greatcrusade08]

scout snipers are pretty much the go to because of the <10 wounds character rule. only scoring mortals on a 6 means your only doing a couple auto wounds a turn though. so slow going

[Captain Idaho]

Just toooooo slow. Can't do the sniper thing.

 

I will probably have to just hit the opposing army hard and hope I can survive Guilliman (or Magnus or Mortarian, though those I can shoot more readily).

[Schlitzaf]

Why Stern over two Squads of Tyrannic War Veterans? Strategem reasons?

[Captain Idaho]

That and they're slightly more expensive. And the power axe, whilst not set in stone for the Sergeant, grants a boost to assault potential alongside the Relic Blade Captain.

[Schlitzaf]

Idaho they are same points. (16 + 2 for spec Bolter). And I’d personally go for two 4 Man Tyrannic unless you value the extra strategem from using Sterngaurd. That leaves you 26 Points. And I might think of upgrading/change the 5 man to Intercessors w/ PowSword (25 Points). And replace Master Bolter with BP on Liutanent. Upgrade the Heavy Bolter to 2nd GravCannon. And I’d think about dropping Rhino and giving the Vang Packs. And going down to 5 a man devies but using the left over points to turn Rhino into a Double 5 Man Devi Squad.

 

————

HQ

Captain As Is

Liutanent- Chain and BP

 

Troops

2x Tacticals, 10 Man, Double Plas & GravCannon

1x Intercessors, 5 Man PowSword

 

Elite

2x Tyrannic War Veteran, 4 Man

1x Vangaurd, 10 Man, Jetpack, 4x DoubleClaw, 4x Shield&Chain, 2x Double Chain

 

Heavy

2x Devies, 5 Man, Double Missile, Cherub

 

Vangaurd

HQ

Techmarine as Is

 

Elites

Cataphracti As Is

Ven Dread As Is

Contemptor As Is

 

Auxillary

Culexus As Is

 

Also your opanion on Greyfax v Culexus?

 

You could drop the GravCannons to HvyBolter give Cpt Pack and turn Techmarine into naked Chain/BP Captain

Edited December 20, 2017 by Schlitzaf

[Kallas]

Masterful Marksmanship is excellent and makes Sternguard way better as a versatile unit. Tyrannic War Veterans are cool, but more useful in a very limited scope.

[Schlitzaf]

Fair through two Squads of 4 Tyrannic and 1 Squad of 8 Stern cost the same (aside if you wanted the ax back on Stern, I’d Storm Bolter and then PowAx on Stern). I personally prefer the flexibility of two Squads and because Nids are on the rise, Tyrannic Rules are relevant

[Captain Idaho]

Masterful Marksmanship is the main draw for Sternguard, sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

What reason do you suggest the change in Mastercrafted Bolter to Bolt Pistol for the Lieutenant? He was going to be with the Devastators where I thought his bolter would do more good.

 

I appreciate the suggestions but you appear to have cut the Rhino and it's kinda crucial to the Sternguard anyway?

 

Don't have the models for Intercessors I'm afraid. The plasma guns are still nice to have though.

[Schlitzaf]

I thought it was for the Vang actually. And was thinking you were using the Stern to anchor your middle. And that was simply for dropping 3 Points to get 18 needed for a GravCannon on other 10 Man Tacticals.

 

I was thinking you were doing a standard marine Center with Cpt/Liu, Tacticals with Stern providing the anchor for the formation. (Also why I suggested dividing them so you could use them to flank your perimeters, and warding off low level bully units).

[Captain Idaho]

Allow me to explain how intend to use the army:

 

- Devastators and Venerable Dreadnought provides fire support, led by the Lieutenant. They sit at the back, preferably in a corner in cover, though they need to be able to draw line of sight or else they're pointless. The Techmarine sits here and helps out the Venerable Dreadnought.

 

- The demi-Tactical squad acts as a guard to enemy deep strike style deployment and a reserve, depending on the opponents and circumstance. They often sneak forwards to take objectives.

 

- The 2 full Tactical squads either hold the corner of the field my fire support sits in when refusing a flank, or they set up where they can do battle with the enemy. This is vague because they're the most flexibly tasked out of my army. If I need to hold ground these guys will do it. If I need more numbers in attack, they do it. Their job is to use their weapons to increase my damage output and Scions of Guilliman can help in that, though I'm not opposed to overcharging at the right targets even without a reroll.

 

Note the heavy bolter is key as it enables me to use Hellfire shells.

 

- The Contemptor gets the rough jobs. He marches up the table taking attention away from the bloody infantry and gets to charge the biggest beasts in close combat.

 

He dies a lot but he's fast enough to put pressure on an opponent. He often works with the Tactical Marines.

 

- Sternguard accompanied by the Captain ride in the Rhino and make up the first part of my attack force. Not decisive on their own but definitely can surprise elite infantry and even monsters and Terminators need to be wary of them when using Masterful Marksmanship.

 

Their assault potential, including that of the Captain with his 3+ invulnerable, is not to be underestimated, especially when jumping out of a Rhino and rapid firing first.

 

- The Vanguard and Cataphractii Terminators attack the enemy very aggressively. Gun lines need to kill both squads and the Contemptor AND the Sternguard before they're able to target my objectives holders and support lines, unless they want to be assaulted.

 

Generally the Cataphractii Terminators teleport but the Vanguard might start on the table depending on the board and deployment.

 

- That leaves the Culexus Assassin... he's there to cause problems and soak Smites. He doesn't have to kill everything but just be a nuisance. Additionally he can act as another attacking element to an opposing list thanks to his deployment rules.

[Schlitzaf]

Okay:

I’d rather a 2nd Liutanent, (DropMaster Bolter and turn Tech into the 2nd Liutanent) over the Techmarine. Giving Stern Rerolls one to wound is juicy especially if you can leverage your Tacticals into range.

Run 2nd a HvyBolter Over GravCannon (so you can keep the access to hellfire even if you lose 2nd Squad)

Replace PlasPistol with StormBolter on Capt (I really dislike Plasma on Characters).*

Then drop PowAx on Stern

Drop Grenade Harness On Cataphracti

Drop Devi down to 5 Man and Lose Two Missiles

Take a second Devi Squad w/Cherub and Two Missiles

 

*I’d rather those two Points go to turning those Tacticals into Intercessors but you don’t own any so ‘shrug’. You could also give Rhino second Storm.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Schlitzaf

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How to deal with Bobby G is Null Zone... it shuts him down real fast.

 

I play a semi gun list with some fast elements like a Stormhawk so I can quickly reach deeply embedded enemy heavy support.

[Captain Idaho]

Null Zone is very hard to pull off though. It requires the Librarian to be very close range, the psychic test to go off and not be denied and for an appropriate assault unit or (less likely because of Guilliman being a character) a shooting attack.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

True. I run Tiggy so I have better odds.

[Captain Idaho]

That power needs fixing. It's at least 2 too high, compared to the rest of factions powers.

 

Guilliman is tough but he's quite killable when you consider combination hitting him. Been thinking about my Sternguard - 16 bolter shots hitting on a 3+ with rerolls to hit on ones, Masterful Marksmanship should result in about 2 wounds at least. The plasma pistol from that Captain is another opportunity. Then consider a charge from a Cataphractii squad or (more likely) my Vanguard.

 

I'm unlikely to kill him but then he could suffer a few more wounds, he'll take a while to kill the Vanguard (at least 2 fight phases) and then I can go again with the Sternguard if they're still alive. And they can charge too.

 

The only problem is will an opponent allow me to hit Guilliman like that?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That is a good point - a smart opponent won't expose Bobby G until major threats have been eliminated so you need a tactic to draw him out then seize the opportunity.

[Captain Idaho]

Luring him out for a counter charge could be possible. The Terminators are likely to be his prime target and the Vanguard can operate further away along with the Rhino Sternguard. Turn one the Terminators drop in along with the Assassin, threatening the enemy line. The Vanguard and Sternguard are slightly further away or charging in with the Terminators to flood his choices. Guilliman responds by attack one of the attacking elements (likely the Vanguard since he only has to break through the Storm Shields and he's going to wipe the unit out in a turn or 2.

 

My response can be to launch the Sternguard into rapid fire range next turn and Assault him with one of my other units that might still be alive.

 

If I can retreat and shoot him to death with my army all the better.

 

The only annoying thing is his revival could make it too much for me to do it twice.

 

Hopefully I'll have smashed his army by then.

 

Plasma death is an option too. Got plenty of shots if the Tactical Marines can draw a bead on him.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would wait until your opponent has used up all his command points before going for the kill so he cannot reroll the 4+ to get back up. Super charging plasma is the new hotness now for SM... I am a big fan of the Primaris HB and Redemptor.

[Prot]

So Idaho what happened? Did the tournament come up yet? If not, any playtesting or changes to your list?

[Captain Idaho]

Saturday is the day. Had a couple testers. Won them both.

 

Been researching the local talent attending along with a friend (who's attending the event with me) and it seems there are some strong lists there but the scenarios we're going with are Chapter Approved which means players have to worry about Roving Patrol.

 

That's a great equaliser. All those character clumpers and elites armies will struggle with that one.

 

***

 

I'll give it a go at a tournament report including a picture of my army as it's almost done. (Tradition to finish at least the day before!)

Edited January 25, 2018 by Captain Idaho

[Prot]

Very true. I think reserves are a bubble army killer. Speed and reaction time is a good thing to have in those scenarios.

 

I think you’ll do fine considering your comfort level with those units. The rest is knowing your meta.

 

For what it’s worth I never made any personal comments because you use a fair amount of units I don’t really use in 8th and I would have been talking out of the side of my butt. I prefer to really only comment in situations that I feel pretty confident with my advice from experience. Experience > mathhammer every time in my opinion.

 

Got any more tests or any tweaks or are you good to go?

[Captain Idaho]

I'd like a couple more games under my belt just so I nail deployment really since I'm good with the rest, but I'm working 50+ hours a week and I'm shattered without time spare!

 

Plus my other half will kill me!

 

I understand mate. No worries as I only have limited units at this point anyway so there's not much more you can do with the list anyway. ;)

 

I appreciate the replies nonetheless.

 

Been thinking of my split as follows for Roving Patrol:

 

Techmarine

Culexus

Cataphractii Terminators

10 Tactical Marines

Venerable Dreadnought

 

Lieutenant

10 Vanguard

5 Tactical Marines

Devastator squad

 

Captain

Contemptor

10 Tactical Marines

8 Sternguard in Rhino (with Captain)

 

I've gone for firepower in each plus attacking potential. You have to split up the army as evenly as possible.