Carcharodons Astra: A Plog and Tactica

[varchilde]

Let's see that new army list you talked about on page two (before someone stunk up the drop pod:)) and see what we can do about putting a an edge on that tourney list 

 

Good shout Dracos.

 

First of all I should explain that our club tourney set up is a little quirky (like most of the players to be honest). It's 1250 points, 4 games.  Players are limited to a single Faction Keyword (no Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari), but there are a few exceptions around things like Assassins, Knights and so on. 2 Detachment limit.  The missions are a suitably wierd mix as well.

 

• GAME 1: Retrieval with Troops scoring extra VP for holding Objectives.
• GAME 2: Dominate and Destroy (from Chapter Approved)
• GAME 3: The Relics; 3 Relics,! Troops score extra VP for holding the Relic
• GAME 4: Secure & Control (eternal war) + Cleanse & Capture (maelstrom). Couple of house rules on the maelstrom cards, and the Base Swap objective VP are skewed (Away is worth 7VP, Home is worth 3VP).

 

My club is running a league in the run up to the tournament. There are rules about changing stuff in the list during the league, but I've pretty much run the same list every game (which is the list I talked about on the previous page:

• Captain: Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Combi Melta, Armour Indomitus (re-roll charges, +1A when charging WT)
• Chaplain: Jump Pack, Bolter, Crozius
• 5 Scouts, Bolters (Sarge with Chainsword) x3
• 5 Devs, 4 Heavy Bolters
• 5 Devs, 4 Lascannons
• 6 Aggressors, Bolters & Grenade Launchers
• 8 Van Vets, Twin Claws
• 5 Van Vets, 5 Plasma Pistols, 4 Chainswords (Sarge has Power Sword).

Getting late now so I'll try and post some thoughts behind who does what tomorrow.

 

Changes I'm thinking about for the tourney;

Captain trades his Combi Melta and Relic for Shield Eternal. I'm pretty sure I can chuck a plasma pistol on him but need to double check that.

Thinking about dropping a couple of sets of Lightning Claws for Storm Shields plus other toys. Some invulns on the VVs would be welcome.

 

And final point; I won a game this afternoon! Played the triple Relic mission against our resident Ork player and came out holding all 3 relics! Faith restored :)

[Dracos]

Congrats on the win. :)

 

I’d like to hear how tour game plan for how the units interact and support each other.

 

I see some standard elements that are obvious (Scout and Devs) but curious about some others like the Chappie ..... and holy Raven 6 Aggressors? Actually I get that it just seems like you have a lot invested in Elite when the tourney seems to be stressing Troops or ObSec in most of the games.

[varchilde]

Congrats on the win.

 

I’d like to hear how tour game plan for how the units interact and support each other.

 

I see some standard elements that are obvious (Scout and Devs) but curious about some others like the Chappie ..... and holy Raven 6 Aggressors? Actually I get that it just seems like you have a lot invested in Elite when the tourney seems to be stressing Troops or ObSec in most of the games.

 

You are absolutely correct in that the tourney rules are meant to give Troops/ObSec a bonus and steer players towards lists favouring those unit types. I've always built my previous armies for this tournament with a troop heavy complement (Kabalite Warrior heavy Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard and a Marine Demi Battle Company (I miss everything having ObSec!)

 

This time I've decided to do something a little more whimsical; the list is in part inspired by fluff (the Carcharodon attacks on Badab Prime when they inserted forces to take out the planetary generators (so it's sneaky infantry based, and vehicle light), and in part by using ridiculously overkilly units (the Aggressors and the Twin Claw Vets) which is something I have never really done before. My lists are also usually shooting based so I wanted to include a strong assault element.

 

My first few games were really just about trying the alpha strike using SftS and seeing how effective it could be. Plus throwing over 100 shooting dice from the single Aggressor Unit is sooo much fun! My game play is starting to evolve a bit more now, and I'm seeing a marked improvement in how the army is performing. 

 

Some thoughts about the list; first up it needs to be a Battalion as a StfS based force is very CP hungry even before the game begins. There is a balance between putting too much in the shadows and not having enough CP for contingency in the game itself.

 

HQs

Jump Captain Smashy; is there to provide to hit re-rolls (especially for shooting units), and to go after stuff in assault; he is very good against multi wound elite infantry with his T-Hammer.

 

Chaplain; I need a cheap 2nd HQ to unlock the Battalion, and I'm torn on who to use. The Chaplain is primarily there to give re-rolls to the Van Vets (all failed to hit rolls in the Fight phase as opposed to the Captain's ones only), particularly if Smashy is having to sit back with the shooty units. The Chaplain is not bad with a Crozius and Invuln as a fighty character, and he has been known to fly solo to act as a deep strike denier, and to go score Linebreaker! (Previously I've used the Librarian, but he's comparatively expensive, and difficult to cast powers make him unreliable).

 

Troops

3 Units of Scouts. Cheap as chips to unlock the Battalion and still let me have plenty of points to spend on other toys. Uses are pretty standard; sit on objectives, set up deep strike denial zones/create drop zones for SftS units. 

 

I have been thinking about a Tactical Squad or two rocking Grav Cannons; they would be solid in cover in the mid field pew pewing away. My other Marine army has got Grav Tacs covered though, and this army is all about something new!

 

Heavy Support

Lascannon Devestators. My main source of Anti Tank. OK, my only source if I'm being honest. Stick them in cover with the -1 to hit and they tend to do quite well. Typically used as a home objective camper as well.

 

Heavy Bolter Devestators. I have a lot of respect for Heavy Bolters this edition as my regular Sisters playing opponent keeps using them on me! Comparatively cheap and provide loads of dakka; again these guys tend to stick back field and camp an objective.

 

Don't forget StfS can be used to get either of these units into a good position out of your deployment zone, and post opponents deployment!

 

Elite

Bolter Aggressors. These guys will take an area and hold it. I usually SftS these guys into some where mid field, in cover, and go to work with them. Ridiculously hard to shift with small arms, these guys need serious resources to elimate. Once they've cleared an area out, opponents seem to be reluctant to go near them, so they make a great area denial unit.  Yes they are slow after the drop, but SftS offsets that and  their move+advance without penalty gives them a decent (for infantry) movement when they need to get their lardy butts across the field.

 

Plasma Pistol Vanguards. These chaps are a jack of all trades; I typically leave them in deep strike reserve and they then can reinforce where needed. Their plasma pistols are great for multi wound infantry (make sure Smashy is nearby), and chain swords are good against chaff.  A lot of the time they are taking objectives in Maelstrom missions. Lovely, flexible unit.

 

Twin Lightning Claw Vanguards. Oh, my favourite vanity unit! So expensive, so fragile, yet so much fun when they hit something! People are rightly terrified of them so they tend to take a lot of punishment. It is tempting (and a lot of fun) to just throw them into something (and sometimes that's the right thing to do), but they can do well being held back and used as a counter assault unit. The games they have been most successful in I haven't charged T1, but gone in T2 and later to take out units weakened by shooting, and they bounce from 1 assault to another. They aren't too shabby against vehicles either; S4 with re-rolls will wound T5-T7 50% of the time and there's plenty of attacks.

 

Bit of an essay but I hope this all makes sense. I'm thinking about a variation on Smashy, and considering a couple of Storm Shields sprinkled in the Vanguard units to give some chance against horrible low AP weapons, but given the comp is about 6 weeks away and I'm a slow painter the list is fairly locked!

 

TLDR, it's unusual, it's quirky, not very optimal, but it is a lot of fun!

[duz_]

 

 

TLDR, it's unusual, it's quirky, not very optimal, but it is a lot of fun!

 

 

 

Don't discount it! It's not too dissimilar to lists I've been running for my RG this edition.

Its a lot of fun! :D Although certainly has some glaring downfalls, which make it more challenging to play

Rolling all those Aggressor dice is fun too! Somewhat satisfying as an IG player doing RG ;)

[varchilde]

Hobby Update!

 

Scout units complete.

 

Unit Bravo:

 

Unit Charlie:

 

And a group shot:

 

All forces currently deployed on the hunt for Easter Eggs whilst I move onto the Lascannon Devs and Aggressors 

[Dracos]

Those helmets make the Bolter Scouts look so much better. :)

[varchilde]

Update time!

 

Lascannon Devestators this time.

 

Whole Unit:

 

The Big Guns:

 

And Sarge:

 

Moved straight onto the Plasma Vets. Only a month to go, and a lot of painting still to do!

[Jacques Corbin]

Love that Chainsword!

[varchilde]

Get an Ironclad! They are so good! Every game I bring mine, my opponent either kills them ASAP, or moves away if that fails. I catch a lot of flakk for not being fluffy for Raven Guard, the Ironclad not killing much, etc. However, the rest of my army is spared a lot of shooting, and/or he forces my opponent to react to his movements. I would happily pay 165 points for that. It's cheaper than my poor Stormtalons, whose Twin Assault Cannons got a points hike, and it's Skyhammers hit fliers on 3+ if it moves.

 

I have an Ironclad in my collection; it's painted in a neutral colour scheme (I'll grab a pic of it soon) and wouldn't need much work to Sharkify it. My club has a weird meta; our tournament is 1250 points and dropping 165 on a unit in the list needs a good reason to justify it. A fairly scary home objective camper (especially with RT chapter tactics) could work.

[Dracos]

Digging the sharky chainsword :D

[varchilde]

Almost a month without posting!

 

The tournament is next month, but unfortunately stupid real life got in the way of me finishing the Sharks to a level I'm happy with, so I'm falling back to a more established army. 

 

The tourney organisers also announced that the Big FAQ including Beta Rules would also be used. The Deep Strike rules actually affect how the army is played (mainly in terms of the incredibly awkward PL on the board vs PL off the board rule for reserves), so some jiggling of models in units is required (in simplistic terms I need to drop one claw vet to add 1 more scout to each of the troop choices).

 

I finished the league at the club as well; winning 2 out of 6 games. Not overly impressive but I did win the last game against a Dark Angel plasma gun line (which I had lost to in the first game I'd ever played with the Sharks).

 

I'll be back at the Sharks once the tournament is out the way.

[varchilde]

Update time!

 

I've used my hobby time to get some slap onto a Contemptor.

 

Front:

 

Right Side:

 

Left Side:

 

And with a mate:

 

Gaming wise I had a smash up against a mate's Flesh Tearers. Very very bloody game!

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I keep thinking the Contemptor should have upward-pointing triangles on its gorget, so it looks like a shark's jaws are framing the Venerable battle-brother's head- that, or pin a shark teeth necklace the entombed Carcharodon wore in life, below the gorget.

 

Will you add a shark fin on the Contemptor's back? Or do you think a Cyclone missile launcher deserves the spot more?

[varchilde]

That's not a bad call; I did muck up a transfer on the area about the Dread's head. I'll think on it, but I quite like the teeth/maw idea.

[Michaelum]

Hi guys, still thinking about list building and I'm torn! duz had it right when he mentioned how Stratagem/CP hungry a Space Marine list can be. My initial reaction was at 1250 points I probably couldn't get to double battalion but with a bit of back of fag packet maths, it is possible.

 

Consider something like: 

Battalion 1, Cap, Libby, 3 squads of scouts

Battalion 2, 2 Lts, 3 squads of scouts

 

Puts you around 700 points(ish), leaving 500ish for the fun stuff which I really want to run (the Van Vets and Aggressors).

 

It just seems a bit off kilter as lists go; a lot of HQs, and a lot of fairly flimsy troops; in 7th ed and earlier I'd typically only run a single HQ, so this is right on the edge of my comfort zone. 

 

I feel some proxying and play tests coming on!

I used a list on tournament last month of 1500 points, HQ was Termi Librarian (Was also thinking cataphractii hamer captain instead) and a lieutenant holding the objectives on the back with the Primarch´s Wrath (that cool relic bolter) Fluff wise Carcharodons use Assault and tactical squads mostly so fits quite well to me. I use the metal miniature with the bolter and the fist fot lieutenant. 

 

PD: Assault Centurions on a stormraven can be hilarius and perfect as Carcharodons, 3 man squad and a venerable dread broke the Ad Mech lines killing 3 Castellan robots of a unit of 4(that last one fleed with 3 wounds) 2 squads of rangers, and making the other units run for their lives out the other objective. Later they took 45 shoots of electropriest like champions losing only 1 wound and basically standing their ground on the enemy deployment zone. All 3 with hurricane bolters and the sargent with meltas.

[Dracos]

I’m going to eventually succumb to my infatuation with Centurians and convert up a squad. Convert, because I don’t like the drill weapons so I’m thinking a couple massive short handled Mjolnir like mallets from Pop Goes the Monkey.

[ShinyRhino]

Or some sort of chain blade setup to mimic Hunger and Slake.

[Michaelum]

They dont look so silly in the flesh, mine still needs much love on the painting side but you get the idea (Terminator captain for scale)

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Michaelum

[Dracos]

What a waste. Every time I see these guys I think Primaris Terminator. :)

[Michaelum]

What a waste. Every time I see these guys I think Primaris Terminator.

Well I believe the Primaris and Cawl were a terrible written input for 40k so Im glad they have nothing to do with them. These guys are called when you don´t have a guy almost dead lying around to put inside a dread, so they fit that spot that always bugged me a little.

[varchilde]

Michaelum, I really dig your Centurion: that mud, blood and grime are really evocative.

 

And how can any criticize the drills? Heretic in a blender anyone? 

[varchilde]

Like a Phoenix from the Flame.  

 

Scrub that; wrong sub forum. Like a shark from the depth this thread rises anew!

Kind of lost my way on the Carcharodons but I'm getting my mojo back! Here's my new Libby; happy Christmas to me.

 

 

My free hand still sucks, but Primaris give a bigger paint surface to play with. Enjoyed painting this guy, particularly the gore on the casting hand, he's now blowing your brains up, he's ripping your throat out!

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Primaris Librarian is well done.

[Paulochromis]

Picking up from a few posts back (about dreads), I'm planning to add the Forge World Raven Guard Legion Contemptor Dreadnought to my Carcharodons army.

The built-in tribal tattoos speak to my inner shark.

[varchilde]

Hadn't seen that FW dreddy before. It's a thing of beauty.