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How do you feel about Necron lore?


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#26
Captain Idaho

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Like I said, the C'tan fluff isn't incompatible with the idea individual, powerful Necrons having a bit of independence.

#27
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Completely agree, and it would have been far better if they had built on that. Under Oldcrons, the lords and ladies under the C'tan did have personalities and free will. After all, they were the ones who acquiesced to the metal, and who brought the C'tan to corporeality.

 

Oldcrons with their Cthulian inspiration were meant to show the terror of logic and the insanity of science when taken to their extremes; as the antithesis of hot-blooded life and emotion, and the warp. They were the other side of the equation of logic vs emotion, the other participant of an insane war waged since the very beginning of time between immaterium and material that now at the end of the 41st millennium is beginning its final phase. The other end of a string tugging at the soul of humanity and the Imperium; they are the reflection and promise of the terrors of technology that helped break our lost golden age and had us flee back into the safety of barbarism, and gave the Dark Age of Technology its name.

 

What do I mean by logic taken to its extreme? The Necrons are the logical conclusion of putting survival above all else, and implementing whatever technology, science or policies without moral compunction to ensure it. What is a soul but a fairytale; what does the individual consciousness mean with all its messy transients of suffering and emotion in the face of continued concrete existence. Science gives no thought to such matters, only the unblemished truth of survival through continued power. The C'tan are the apex predators in the galaxy, the gods of darwinism that logically should have the right to rule and survive above all else by their sheer might. The evolutionary imperative of survival of the fittest is a truth, not a belief.

 

The Necrons will cleanse the galaxy of its messy chaos, and put it to order. Then they will make a desert, and call it peace. Then they will begin the preparations to ensure their survival beyond the heat-death of the universe trillions of years into the future - the real concern of their their C'tan masters. While the C'tan all enjoy the taste of mortal cattle, it is a transient pleasure they enjoy as their position as apex predators. It is only logical. It is also insane.

 

I would have liked to have had both this over-arching unique faction identity, and the best parts of the new fluff - having the cake and eating it. I like the insanity that their long hibernation has brought, and most of thetraits introduced into the Retcrons would easily be ported to the base of the previous fluff.

 

Different lords' characters would put a different emphasis on any number of aspects of the Necron race and the C'tan they are dedicated to - omnicide, preparation for the far future, scientific experimentation/data, insanity, symmetry and order, the peace of silence, the cloying suffocating unnatural presence of emotionless pariahs, etc.

 

A lord who can't stand the discordant noise of imperfect organic life, and is driven to purge everything till he can only hear the silence of the desert, or another who is driven to scientifically catalogue and dissect every specimen of life before it is purged. A lady who is obsessed in maintaining geometric precision in everything. etc...

 

So, no Tomb Kings in Space for me please. A threat of existential dread and looming terror, that combines myriad sci-fi and philosophical tropes into something unique, yes.


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#28
BrotherAtrox

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Liked them a lot better when they were flavorless automatons in 3rd Ed. that just wanted to destroy all life.


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#29
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That's how I play mine.


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#30
Gree

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Andy Chambers disliked the new direction of the Necrons in a Reddit AMA. He's the guy that wrote all the original 3rd edition lore for the Necrons. Take it how you will.
 

To play devil's advocate though, did anybody actually discuss the Necrons themselves? The Necrons themselves were just the robot hordes of two special characters. Could the Necron fluff have been expanded in a different way to keep more elements of the old lore? Yeah, probably. Did that make the old lore appropriate for an actual tabletop army, rather than just a pervasive threat in the lore? No. No other race boiled down to "which of these two special characters is your army enslaved by?"
The old fluff that everybody loves was the C'Tan fluff. The Necrons had none. They were an army of shooty zombies, with elite zombies with better guns, stabby zombies, floating zombies, led by a zombie who could fight a bit better.

 
I have the old White Dwarf Designer's Notes for the 3rd Edition Necrons. The C'tan were intended to fill a similar role to the Vampire Counts in Fantasy, the intelligent lord-type leading a horde a undead minions.The C'tan were intended to be the vampire equivalent for 40k, but only four even existed lorewise.
 
The problem with that was that the faction revolved around a grand total of two special characters. How many people are going to play a Faction for two Special Characters who had limited usefulness on the tabletop? Not very many. With the Vampire Counts I could at least make my own Vampire Lord and customize him in multiple different ways.

 

Those aspects might have been one of the reasons for the shift in Necron lore, to move it away from a limited selection of Special Characters.
 


Edited by Gree, 07 January 2018 - 11:00 PM.


#31
Lord_Caerolion

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Exactly. If they kept the old background, but simply got rid of the "only 4 C'Tan, of which only 2 are actually active" thing, it'd be awesome. I really hope they do more with the C'Tan in future. The one upside of the Shards thing is it allows them to have "reconstituted C'Tan" that match what they were originally meant to be, given how strong the fragments are.


QUOTE (A D-B @ Feb 2 2011, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Lord_Caerolion @ Feb 1 2011, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


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#32
Captain Idaho

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Yeah they could have totally allowed for custom C'tan and had many more if they wanted more flavour. Even changing the way the army plays.

Alas, I fear the Necrons will never been redeemed at this point.

#33
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They can, they just need to start mentioning hints of unbound C'Tan wandering the galaxy, that have freed themselves from being shard-ed. They can have the intelligent Necrons, and also start hinting at a doomsday scenario for them, where the C'Tan have started reforming, and I can't imagine they're exactly happy at what was done to them.


QUOTE (A D-B @ Feb 2 2011, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Lord_Caerolion @ Feb 1 2011, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


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#34
Captain Idaho

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I can't see the feel of the old Codex ever coming back though. GW just wouldn't do it.

#35
Lord_Caerolion

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As in the old, Cthulhu-esque C'Tan? Or the controlled Necrons? There's no reason the first can't be done eventually, especially given the continuing timeline we now have.


QUOTE (A D-B @ Feb 2 2011, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Lord_Caerolion @ Feb 1 2011, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


You're hired.

#36
Gree

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Exactly. If they kept the old background, but simply got rid of the "only 4 C'Tan, of which only 2 are actually active" thing, it'd be awesome. I really hope they do more with the C'Tan in future. The one upside of the Shards thing is it allows them to have "reconstituted C'Tan" that match what they were originally meant to be, given how strong the fragments are.

 

I kinda preferred what Dawn of War did with them, having Necron Lords temporarily transform into avatars for the C'tan. It would make sense that the tabletop version of the C'tan would effectively be just weaker avatars of the real thing.

 

 

I can't see the feel of the old Codex ever coming back though. GW just wouldn't do it.

 

Well, Forge World has the Maynkarth Dynasty which brings back much of the dark and horrifying tone of the old Necrons.



#37
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There is precedent so there is hope. :)

#38
Lord_Caerolion

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Yeah, the Maynarkh Dynasty are pretty terrifying. The only Tomb World to actually kill a C'Tan, causing the Flayer Virus to be created, and potentially having altered reality itself. Apparently their Cryptek also wasn't happy just with messing with time, and trying to change it, so tried to destroy it.


QUOTE (A D-B @ Feb 2 2011, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Lord_Caerolion @ Feb 1 2011, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


You're hired.

#39
Gree

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There is precedent so there is hope. smile.png

 
Oh, don't get me wrong.I am fine with taking some elements of the old lore and mixing it with the new lore, like how Forge World did.
 
That being said, if they went completely back to the old lore, I would most likely stop playing my Necrons. I have little interest in the C'tan or controlled Necrons.


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#40
Captain_Krash

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I like to view the 3rd edition cron dex to be written in the Imperium's perspective There are many stories of outpost going dark discovering old temples and ancient tombs etc so the imperium still view the Necrons as all killing sentient beings. The codex from then on are in the Necron perspective, where there true purposes/ personalities show.

 

Just the way I rationalize the much love I have for the 3rd edition lore compared to now. Can't wait to see there codex for 8th.

 

Krash


Ad Victoriam


#41
Lord_Caerolion

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There is precedent so there is hope. smile.png

 
Oh, don't get me wrong.I am fine with taking some elements of the old lore and mixing it with the new lore, like how Forge World did.
 
That being said, if they went completely back to the old lore, I would most likely stop playing my Necrons. I have little interest in the C'tan or controlled Necrons.

 

 

Basically, just give us the best of both worlds, and have some reconstituted C'Tan that have retaken some Tomb Worlds, while leaving others as independent.


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QUOTE (A D-B @ Feb 2 2011, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Lord_Caerolion @ Feb 1 2011, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


You're hired.

#42
Tyriks

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I'd be on board with that. They could take it as far as they wanted, too, from a few lines of fluff somewhere to a whole subfaction with rules changes like farsight enclaves for Tau.

#43
Bonzi

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The old fluff was more foreboding and ominous, but it was also a dead end in terms of fluff. There could be no development or building of the lore. Just another story of silent slave murderbots showing up and killing everything. GW's fluff is painfully one dimensional to begin with but even that is extreme.

With the advent of 6/7th where alliance battles/armies were possible, old cron fluff just wouldn't work. You need an army with personality and motivations for that to work. The new fluff is a bit of a bummer in that they stripped away all of the mystery in a very short time, but the difference is that as a player of Necrons you are allowed to be 'inside' the army rather than playing a faction that even you don't know or understand the motivations for.

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#44
Deschenus Maximus

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Yeah kinda hate the new fluff. I was in AWE of the terror Oldcrons represented (was not familiar with C'Thulu-esque tropes back then) - they were SCARY! Now they just don't really represent much of a threat. To me, they kinda feel like T'au: a sidenote addition to the Imperium's long list of enemies. Largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

If you look at things more broadly, there's just not much suspense to them. By that I mean that their presence in the fluff is not very impactful. Compare to the other factions:

 

-Imperials matter because they are the "protagonist" of our story, and are constantly on the verge of losing.

-Eldar matter because they constantly tamper with things and are desperate to survive, like the Imperium.

-Chaos matters because it constantly threathens to swallow the Imperium from the inside and the outside.

-Tyranids matter because they are a for-real threat to all life in the galaxy.

-Orks matter because they are everywhere, and would almost instantly conquer the universe if they were united.

 

T'au and Necrons don't really fit too much in the epic drama because they are more interested in "petty" stuff like their immediate surroundings and personal vendettas - they are not overly concerned with what is going on outside of their immediate surroundings, and those outside of their immediate surroundings are not very interested in them.

 

They lack gravitas. Which is something the Oldcrons had in spades. 


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#45
Lord_Caerolion

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They're still located across the galaxy, still slowly waking up, still wanting to take over the galaxy because everyone else is inherently inferior. That stuff hasn't changed. The only thing they changed is the C'Tan have less focus, and the Necrons themselves have personality. They still pose the exact same threat.


QUOTE (A D-B @ Feb 2 2011, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Lord_Caerolion @ Feb 1 2011, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


You're hired.

#46
Deschenus Maximus

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No they don't. They are fractured. Some are so broken that they have basically become target practice for Imperial armies. Some are out and about collecting Pokemans. Some are content to rule over their little kingdoms.

 

This grand, terrifying threat is no more.


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