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Raven Guard Resolutions


Cordova

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Thank you again.

 

Ok, so I won't pot the whole thing again, but I have made the following tweaks.

 

The Devs are now as follows:

2x LC, ML and HB

2xHB, ML and LC

 

The Guard have only got the Mortars, making the Sang dude into Lemartes.

 

I gave one DG a power sword and put boltguns on the IG sergeants to use the last 3 points.

 

I'm pretty pleased with that. Now to paint it up enough to make it work with my head-canon...

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am not dead, I am but slow.

So, after pretty much deciding on the list...although Shadowspear will, inevitably, ruin my current content state, I have made a start on model making.

As my list is Dark Eagle, not Blood Angel, I couldn't just use DC models for them. However, I know they need to be clear and distinct. So, here is my plan.

They are Deathwatch - then they have black armour as do the DC. They have some Blood angel gubbins on some dudes to make a bit of a link. They are all 'Blackshields' so they can be Blood Angels on the quest for vengeance if anyone asks, and no-one can prove otherwise; or, to me, they are simply returning veterans, joining up together to act as a Deathwatch squad.

Here they are (cobbled together...and unpainted)

med_gallery_68825_13508_972022.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Progress...

A fast and dirty update. The DC are painted up - it's nasty and fast, but suits the dirty painting on the others - makes them look used...

The photo is particularly poor, as I took it in a hurry, with my phone etc...but still, I'm pleased enough to use them on a table (once based etc).

There are no chapter markings, for obvious reasons, although one has a Raven Guard pad that I just couldn't defile, so I left it matt black as a bit of a link to the Chapter, same as the BA bling on some that is a loose enough link to the DC they will be roleplaying as.

med_gallery_68825_13508_454720.jpg

And the Captain. He is meant to have a big old hammer, but a big ol' sword is clear enough...

med_gallery_68825_13508_177126.jpg

Just a Lemartes counts-as and Mephiston-counts as to go...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Some more progress, albeit rushed and dirty, just to get the job done.

Deathwatch Blackshield Chaplain (Lemartes)

med_gallery_68825_13508_188178.jpg

Deathwatch Blackshield Librarian (Mephiston)

I saw some of the issues, e.g. an errant bit of blue, in the photo, they have been sorted.)

med_gallery_68825_13508_134220.jpg

And some miscellaneous Devastators, to fill up the need for different weapons.

med_gallery_68825_13508_7873.jpg

I have a few games coming this weekend, I'll try to upload some photos etc.

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Updates as I play: Mephiston is evil, having just legged it the length of the board to punch some Dark Reapers to pieces.

The captain has punched a Wave Serpent into bits.

The Raven Guard snipers proved themselves heroes (again) by causing 4 Mortal Wounds on his rangers in a battle of the snipers.

 

EDIT: FINISHED ALL MY GAMES... Here are the short notes.

 

I may get around to uploading more info, but I have lots on at the minute, plus I only took about 3 photos, and no-one wants to read a wall of text. I played 4 games other the last 2 days (3 with my Marines, one with dirty Eldar Xenos...heresy!)

 

Game 1:

Maelstrom, I forget which one against Eldar.

 

The Blood Angels were immense. Well, the Death Company weren't, they whiffed hard and were murdered. Smash Cap punched a Wave Serpent and assorted bits to death - I then hid him to deny Slay the Warlord. Mephistion killed a bunch too.

 

However, the MVPs were my trusty scouts, who just kept plinking away, chipping of wounds here and there.

 

Eventually, 10 - 7 winner on points.

 

Game 2: Maelstrom vs Tau.

 

I won this through luck. I drew a good lead and held it by hiding...not a lot to say, it wasn't a cinematic match.

 

Game 3:

Maelstrom vs Eldar, but a different one (there's lots of these).

 

There was an Avatar today...he's grim. The Vindicare and Mephiston punched him to death (after Mephiston whiffed) then he got back up and murdered Mr Blood Angel.

 

The game was won through use of double Flakk killing transports and the Aggressors powerfisting another.

 

I came out 6 - 3 winner.

 

Game 4:

Vs Eldar...yep.  This was one of the new Eternal Wars with the shrinking objective size. I lost this one because I am a moron.

 

So I seized. Promptly took out a Wave Serpent, traded some wounds etc etc. The Death Company punched some stuff, then when he reshuffled, I redeployed the Captain. I targeted his Dark Reapers, killing 3 - my thought process being that they could cover the objective well, so needed to die. This cost me the game. A) I forgot Honour the Chapter, I killed 3, but didn't fight again to end them all and b ) I should've charged the Farseer for the Slay the Warlord, but I was thinking long game - not useful in Eternal War.  He then died to Smite and Executioner putting 9 Mortal wounds on him... Anyway, I nearly pulled it back with a heroic scout run for linebreaker, but his Autarch killed them all with the most 6s I've ever seen rolled in a row.

 

Final result 3 - 4 to the Eldar.

 

I was really annoyed with this, but it shows how the Maelstrom are just (in my opinion) better. This mission favoured a last-minute run, which the Eldar are good at. Still, it's a learning experience and I won't forget it.

 

SIDE NOTE: I really wish StfS had something like the Eldar Webway strike, that'd be so much better than the version we have now...

Edited by Cordova
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  • 2 weeks later...

...So, in order to give me something different, I thought I may add some Custodes to my list...including Captain Cheese. (Largely due to one of my friends bringing some evil cheese-tastic lists...)

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this list idea?...

A dark eagles freeblade castellan may be a good idea if they like gamey lists.

Also, remember that captains have bolt pistols too

Edited by Lord Raven 19
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I thought about a freeblade, but I feel that it's a huge divergence from the Marines.

 

I was reasonably happy with how the BA units performed, even if they are the least subtle units. I'm holding out hope that sometime this year, we will hear of a Primaris version of Vanguard Veterans, or some form of jump pack that is CC in design.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So. I have hit a sort of hobby impasse. The StfS was a bit of a nail in the coffin, really, as I have been wrestling with the RG recently. Now, I've just finished off a Nurgle (heresy) army, as a way to break up the pace, but I really want to come back to my sneaky boys...

 

Underwhelmed as I am with the Vanguard marines, I've decided that editing a list to feature Lias Issodon, as I did last edition, might mix it up. However, I'm a bit dry on the inspiration front.

 

I'm going to keep the Loyal 32 and the Blood Angels, as they do work, but the rest I'm happy to tweak. Any of you excellent brothers have any inspiration from the Ravenspire?

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Patience with the Vanguard Brothers. Give it a few months and I almost guarantee a point drop akin to the Intercessors (though I'd be okay with a Hellblaster one also) .... just in time for the individual unit box sets to be released ;)

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Patience with the Vanguard Brothers. Give it a few months and I almost guarantee a point drop akin to the Intercessors (though I'd be okay with a Hellblaster one also) .... just in time for the individual unit box sets to be released :wink:

 

I sincerely hope so. I want to use the infiltrators and the Phobos Cap, but I just can't get them to be worth their points.

 

Still, it hasn't stopped me...after a week of saying 'Nevermore' (woo...reference), I have been thinking about some new ideas for both a list and modelling...however I need a bit of help to tweak.

 

I've edited what I had before - largely adding Issodon, so I can make a new version and dropping a few bits, namely Mephiston, as he was being shut down too often by enemy psykers, and the Assassin as the new 2CP is harsher (And fairer). I am not against b=putting htem back, but here is what I now have:

 

 

 

---

 

RAPTOR BATTALION

+ HQ +

 

Lieutenants [4 PL, 60pts]

Lieutenant: 2x Chainsword

 

Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts]

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]

Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

4x Scout w/Boltgun

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]

Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]

Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]

Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

More snipers, because.

 

+ Elites +

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 80pts]

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Veteran Sergeant

Special Issue Boltgun/Bolt Pistol: Special issue boltgun

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 80pts]

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Veteran Sergeant

Special Issue Boltgun/Bolt Pistol: Special issue boltgun

 

Both upgrade free, but this can change, these will go with Lias (obvs)

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]

Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Cherub

 

Sit and shoot...

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 170pts]

Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp

Cherub

 

These will go with Lias too...

 

 

CADIAN BATTALION

 

Imperial Commander's Armoury [-1CP]: 1 additional Heirloom of Conquest

 

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

 

+ HQ +

 

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

 

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol, Relic: Kurov's Aquila

 

+ Troops +

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]

7x Guardsman

Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Sergeant: Laspistol

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]

7x Guardsman

Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Sergeant: Laspistol

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]

7x Guardsman

Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Sergeant: Laspistol

 

We all know why.

 

BLOOD ANGELS SUPREME COMMAND

 

Armoury of Baal [-1CP]: 1 additional Relic of Baal

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord

 

Lemartes [7 PL, 100pts]

 

Lieutenants [5 PL, 78pts]

Lieutenant: Chainsword, Chainsword, Jump Pack, The Veritas Vitae

 

LT for potential extra CP, the rest does what you'd imagine.

 

+ Elites +

 

Death Company [9 PL, 125pts]: Jump Pack

Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power axe

Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer

Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power sword

Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword

Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword

 

---

 

This puts me on 1607 points out of 1750...any ideas guys?

 

My first thought is Scout Bikers?

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My first thought is Scout Bikers?

Scout bikers are great to remove chaff. Great mobility, lots of S4 shots, cheap too. Those would be useful to remove screens for the BA part, or remove deep strike blocking infantry. On the other hand, their armour save is nothing to write home about - if you go second, they might just die. And you got lots of S4 already.

 

With that amount of scouts, it could be useful to add a vanguard librarian - it has Concealed Positions too, slows down units, throws out MWs (even on screened characters), can deny a critical psychic power each round, and can even Null Zone with the tome relic.

 

Except for that, a bit more AT couldn't hurt. There's just one ranged AT unit that starts on the board, that wouldn't be enough against vehicle-heavy lists.

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The AT was one of my main concerns, to be honest. I like the idea of the Phobos librarian, but the points are fairly steep to add that and more AT.

I know, that guy is not entirely cheap. But I've found the utility broad enough to include him quite often. Especially halving all movement of one non-Fly unit in 18" can be invaluable - create traffic jams by slowing screening units, overwhelm one side while slowing down the other one, or slow down a unit you want to kill so your guys can reach it. Combining this with the BA CC guys could be devastating on some opponents. And even if the libby ain't exactly AT - throwing out a few MW will still dent the big stuff WHILE slowing it down and maybe generating CP.

 

As I've said in other topics - that guy is a swiss army knife, for just 10p above a regular primaris libby. Just with better powers, in psyker range turn 1, and with camo cloak because why not just ignore AP-1 while in cover.

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Doubling up on lascannons seems prudent. Previous experience in my case was that, at that points level, every opponent will be able to kill one dev squad per round, in cover and >12".  One is just a target, two are starting to become useful. And leaving out the scouts won't hurt your firepower.

 

For the lieutenant, I'm not sure. His bubble could be useful, especially at two dev squads, but chances are that terrain is spaced out too far to put 21 PA dudes in the same spot, so his bubble would only affect one squad. In that case, the libby will probably be more useful.

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Ok, so I am getting re-jazzed at having a few more models to sort through...here's a new idea, getting close to something I'm happy with, but possibly a few tweaks with y'all guys' ideas.

 

CADIAN BATTALION

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol, Relic: Kurov's Aquila

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
7x Guardsman
Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
7x Guardsman
Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
7x Guardsman
Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
Sergeant: Laspistol

 

We all know why, and they are worth their weight.

RAPTOR BATTALION

+ HQ +

Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts]

Librarian in Phobos Armour [6 PL, 111pts]: Camo cloak, Force sword

 

Probably with Tenebrous Curse and Mind Wipe. Although I have no Phobos for him to affect, it's another up-close unit that can board control...the more I think about it, the more I like him.

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

I cannot convey my true feelings for these dudes in words...

+ Elites +

Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 80pts]
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Veteran Sergeant
Special Issue Boltgun/Bolt Pistol: Special issue boltgun

Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 80pts]
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Veteran Sergeant
Special Issue Boltgun/Bolt Pistol: Special issue boltgun

 

I'm a bit unsold on these, I know they do a job, but they feel a bit weak. However, Strats etc can help them, I suppose. They will go with Lias.

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub
Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub
Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

 

Ranged boys, these'll start in among the I.G.

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 167pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Storm bolter
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp

 

These guys go with Lias. I'm not sure about them still. Part of me wants them, the other wants to get some Company Vets with Plasma instead.

BLOOD ANGELS SUPREME COMMAND

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord

Lemartes [7 PL, 100pts]

Lieutenants [5 PL, 78pts]
Lieutenant: Chainsword, Chainsword, Jump Pack, The Veritas Vitae

+ Elites +

Death Company [9 PL, 125pts]: Jump Pack
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power axe
Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power sword
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword

I know they are boring, but it opens more options, and feels more Raven Guard as they descend to smash things with precision.

 

--

 

So there we are. My issues are the Devs, or extra Plasma Vets.  Any thoughts here?

 

Cheers guys.

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  • 2 months later...

Well, it's been over a month (which is mad) but I have been ludicrously busy. The positive is that, recently, a friend of mine has circled back to 40k. He's been playing AoS competitively and is looking to get back to competitive games.

 

In theory, I'm playing him next week but as I know he's gonna come at me strong, I'd like to jazz my list fully. I'd realised that my previous lists were including some dodgy points etc.

 

I'm pretty committed to the Raptor cause, coming back around to the Issodon camp. I'm loving my Blood Angels so they're staying. Any ideas for the last points here??

 

He's probably bringing Tau, but I don't want to build to that. Do I bring some VV or more Devs? I'm debating Devs with Plasma Cannons...

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [48 PL, 750pts] ++

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raptors, Raven Guard

 

+ HQ +

 

Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts]

 

Lieutenants [4 PL, 60pts]

. Lieutenant: 2x Chainsword

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub

. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

 

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub

. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

 

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [27 PL, -1CP, 427pts] ++

 

Armoury of Baal [-1CP]: 1 additional Relic of Baal

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord

 

Lemartes [7 PL, 100pts]

 

Lieutenants [5 PL, 78pts]

. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Chainsword, Jump Pack, The Veritas Vitae

 

+ Elites +

 

Death Company [9 PL, 125pts]: Jump Pack

. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer

. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power sword

. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power axe

. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword

. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [13 PL, -1CP, 195pts] ++

 

Imperial Commander's Armoury [-1CP]: 1 additional Heirloom of Conquest

 

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

 

+ HQ +

 

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol, Relic: Kurov's Aquila

 

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

 

+ Troops +

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]

. 7x Guardsman

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Sergeant: Laspistol

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]

. 7x Guardsman

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Sergeant: Laspistol

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]

. 7x Guardsman

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Sergeant: Laspistol

 

88 PL, -2CP, 1,372pts

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Some thoughts:

 

1) As you already mentioned, you are light on AT.

 

2) Not sure what you mean by "competitive" in nature, but if you intend to run ITC with their terrain rules, you are also light on Indirect Fire.

 

3) While you generally don't want to list-tailor to your buddy, there are certain general improvements you can take that will prove very rewarding against Tau (See: Close Combat and disabling Overwatch/FTGG).

 

So with those objectives in mind, here's just a basket load of ideas you could run:

 

  • Your Death Company in their current form are very multi-purpose, thus they will be overkill at chaff (Fire Warriors) and inefficient at killing big stuff (Riptides). You might find that you will get better bang for your buck if you swap them to Sanguinary Guard with Power Fists. Sang Guard have better chaff-clearing shooting, and a better defensive profile to survive getting shot off the board by Anti-Infantry fire. I would consider dropping Lemartes in this case and adding Mephiston. If you do play against Tau, Mephiston will get free range to buff your Sang Guard and also run amok in your opponents lines.
    • If you do opt to keep the Death Company, id kick it up to max Thunder Hammers balanced against Bolters/Chainswords. Not a fan of Power Swords/Axes, and the Hammers will help you kill big suits/tanks
    • Mephiston is probably a great addition even if you keep the DC, as he is mega-value for the cost.
  • I played Plasma Devs a lot at the start of 8th edition. Now that I have moved on, they are outshined/outperformed by Hellblasters in nearly every way. If you want to get in more suit-killing power (and more AT) my preferred Hellblaster package is as follows:
    • 10x Hellblasters + Company Ancient with Standard of the Emperor Ascendant (This clocks in at 393 points, is very strong with SFTS, and you will fall in love with it if you havent played it yet. Also plays well with a couple of 111 point Aggressor Squads screening it.
  • Should you be playing ITC and their terrain rules, you already have your Loyal32 detachment. Consider adding more mortar teams as Heavy Weapon Squads. Alternatively you can pick up the Emperor's Wrath Artillery formation, along with a few basilisks/wyverns/manticores to taste. The half movement strat is great and the indirect fire will be great at killing drones or units hiding in cover camping objectives.
  • You already have the Angel's Wing - which is awesome against Tau at turning off overwatch. Should you consider ditching Lias, swapping to Raven Guard directly, and building a Raven Guard Smash Captain with Silent Stalker WL trait (and the relic Jump Pack) will give you a second tool to disable overwatch.
    • In the same vein of Lias: Your list at present doesn't look optimized for him. You will need your devastators on the field Turn 1 laying down fire since you have so little of it (and "ambushing" with them with Lias will delay them a turn), and units you would consider Ambushing with Lias are not present (Like Sternguard). I'm not opposed to him, but in your current list he's basically just doing the Chapter Master thing (rerolls) and sitting backfield with the devs - which isn't a bad thing. Just a thought
    • Speaking of the Devs: Since you can no longer double-tap with the Cherub/Flakk+Hellfire/Signum tech as per the last FAQ, you may want to consider maximizing lascannons on your Devs and moving to a Missle Launcher/Heavy Bolter in with your scout squads.
  • Reminder: Sniper Rifles are going to struggle to kill Tau characters, since Drones can be used to protect them. You can get around this by bringing more snipers or the indirect fire I mentioned above. Alternatively: On paper, against Tau, Eliminators seem like a great choice. I personally haven't played mine yet, but their double tap shot that ignores LOS would be good at killing out of LOS drones and then characters (Fireblades, Ethereals, etc).
  • I prefer Artisan of War over Gift of Foresight, but that's personal preference.

Good Luck!

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10x Hellblasters + Company Ancient with Standard of the Emperor Ascendant (This clocks in at 393 points, is very strong with SFTS, and you will fall in love with it if you havent played it yet. Also plays well with a couple of 111 point Aggressor Squads screening it.

Ive already liked your list but Vyper has some good advice.

 

I totally endorse this type of synergy with Primaris units. I flip it myself to a degree having 5 Hellblasters closely trailing / covering 5 Aggressors but the concept is similar. I just use a Captain to provide both units with rerolls instead of the more standard Ancient build. MMV it always think about creating pressure points that force your opponent to make decisions that have no obvious answer. For instance Shrike deep striking with 5 Plasma-ceptors with Reiver cover in the backfield can deter or make an opponent pat for being overly aggressive running toward your deployment zone.

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I dig the plasma inceptors with Shrike idea. I had also considered something like this to fulfill a similar role:

 

I had considered the following:

 

3x Plasma Inceptor (177 points, ~12 shots)

7x Vanguard Vets (5x Double Plasma Pistol, 2x Plasma Pistol/Storm Shield - 183 points, 12 shots)

 

I think overall it probably isnt as competitive (dollars to donuts) but hot damn if it isn't fun looking and thematic.

 

Also a fun trick if you want to have your Hellblaster castle (with Agressors) get re-rolls, you can park a Dread (2x Twin Las Contemptor Mortis is my preference) next to them and pop wisdom of the ancients every turn to act as their psuedo-captain. So your real Captain can run up the board and hit stuff with his T.Hammer!

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Thanks for all your replies guys, much appreciated. Vyper, I must say, that is an immense response - thank you. I thought I'd answer a few of the questions to try to give more of an idea of my list-building etc.

 

Some thoughts:

 

1) As you already mentioned, you are light on AT.

 

2) Not sure what you mean by "competitive" in nature, but if you intend to run ITC with their terrain rules, you are also light on Indirect Fire.

True, but I feel that indirect fire is generally (at least where I play) less of an issue, so rarely becomes my main issue.

 

3) While you generally don't want to list-tailor to your buddy, there are certain general improvements you can take that will prove very rewarding against Tau (See: Close Combat and disabling Overwatch/FTGG).

 

Tau is just what this one dude is bringing. I generally like to make a list, paint it, and stick with it until I am bored. I have had lots of iterations of a 1750/2000 point list, this is just my attempt to make a new all-comers list and the Tau dude is the muse. More often, I'll face other SM, Eldar or IG.

 

So with those objectives in mind, here's just a basket load of ideas you could run:

 

  • Your Death Company in their current form are very multi-purpose, thus they will be overkill at chaff (Fire Warriors) and inefficient at killing big stuff (Riptides). You might find that you will get better bang for your buck if you swap them to Sanguinary Guard with Power Fists. Sang Guard have better chaff-clearing shooting, and a better defensive profile to survive getting shot off the board by Anti-Infantry fire. I would consider dropping Lemartes in this case and adding Mephiston. If you do play against Tau, Mephiston will get free range to buff your Sang Guard and also run amok in your opponents lines.
    • If you do opt to keep the Death Company, id kick it up to max Thunder Hammers balanced against Bolters/Chainswords. Not a fan of Power Swords/Axes, and the Hammers will help you kill big suits/tanks
    • Mephiston is probably a great addition even if you keep the DC, as he is mega-value for the cost.
  • The Power Weapons are a hangover from old lists, and the models themselves, but they could just be plain old chainsword count-as. They are cheap here for 2 reasons. First, it's a hangover from an older list version, second, although I agree with you to and extent, the shooty nature has helped me out vs Eldar and IG a fair bit. Consequently, I am somewhat reticent to change them, but perhaps shift the emphasis slightly. (I never had Sang Guard, as I couldn't squeeze them into my old list)/
  • Mephiston and I have a love/hate thing. I love him, on paper, but he has rarely been super-useful. I play against a lot of Eldar, and they just ruin his day - usually blocking Wings and laughing as he tries to jog along... Lemartes is a pretty simple point and punch dude, but if he comes off with the boosting, that is super useful. I may make this tweak though, and see what happens.
  •  
  • I played Plasma Devs a lot at the start of 8th edition. Now that I have moved on, they are outshined/outperformed by Hellblasters in nearly every way. If you want to get in more suit-killing power (and more AT) my preferred Hellblaster package is as follows:
    • 10x Hellblasters + Company Ancient with Standard of the Emperor Ascendant (This clocks in at 393 points, is very strong with SFTS, and you will fall in love with it if you havent played it yet. Also plays well with a couple of 111 point Aggressor Squads screening it.
  • I love Helblasters. They are my favourite. They aren't in this list though, as I was thinking of Lias. Although, only thinking. My issue with StfSing anything now is that it is CP to telegraph something... all the guys I play just go, 'Ok, so you're telling me that they're gonna StfS, ace. They're either going here, here or here so I'll stay away...' That has really crippled them to me. That said - you have any tips with this, I'll do that in a heartbeat.
  •  
  • Should you be playing ITC and their terrain rules, you already have your Loyal32 detachment. Consider adding more mortar teams as Heavy Weapon Squads. Alternatively you can pick up the Emperor's Wrath Artillery formation, along with a few basilisks/wyverns/manticores to taste. The half movement strat is great and the indirect fire will be great at killing drones or units hiding in cover camping objectives.
  • I could do more mortars, that is the one thing I don't actually have more of...
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  • You already have the Angel's Wing - which is awesome against Tau at turning off overwatch. Should you consider ditching Lias, swapping to Raven Guard directly, and building a Raven Guard Smash Captain with Silent Stalker WL trait (and the relic Jump Pack) will give you a second tool to disable overwatch.
    • In the same vein of Lias: Your list at present doesn't look optimized for him. You will need your devastators on the field Turn 1 laying down fire since you have so little of it (and "ambushing" with them with Lias will delay them a turn), and units you would consider Ambushing with Lias are not present (Like Sternguard). I'm not opposed to him, but in your current list he's basically just doing the Chapter Master thing (rerolls) and sitting backfield with the devs - which isn't a bad thing. Just a thought
    • As I mentioned, this was to see if I could get anything for him to build to - but not sold to have to use him.  It would depend on what I bought in.
    • Speaking of the Devs: Since you can no longer double-tap with the Cherub/Flakk+Hellfire/Signum tech as per the last FAQ, you may want to consider maximizing lascannons on your Devs and moving to a Missle Launcher/Heavy Bolter in with your scout squads.
    • Yeah, my most recent thought was similar, go back to all Lascannons and add a Heavy Bolter Scout to each sniper squad.
  • Reminder: Sniper Rifles are going to struggle to kill Tau characters, since Drones can be used to protect them. You can get around this by bringing more snipers or the indirect fire I mentioned above. Alternatively: On paper, against Tau, Eliminators seem like a great choice. I personally haven't played mine yet, but their double tap shot that ignores LOS would be good at killing out of LOS drones and then characters (Fireblades, Ethereals, etc).
  • They fill the Troops slot, and have always done me proud vs Eldar (but that's just me)/ I've never used Eliminators either but that is food for thought.

 

  • I prefer Artisan of War over Gift of Foresight, but that's personal preference.

Good Luck!

 

I mean, I've written a lot there, and not really chosen anything...

 

My main issue is that I like to make a list I can build and use for a while, but I can't get a handle on this one...

 

 

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I think your big choice probably comes down to Lias and how you intend to use him:

 

1) Keep him in the list and build around his ambush

 

2) Keep him in the list but ignore the ambush and just focus on him being a strong Chapter Master (his move speed aura is great, and still works with Primaris)

 

3) Cut him altogether and move to RG for Relics/WL Trait

 

Personally from what I have seen and know of you, Option #2 seems like the most tactically feasible choice. I think once you nail down how you are going to use him (or not), then you can start filling out your "new" TAC list that you want to inspire to.

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Having thought about it, I really do like the Helblasters, probably more so than the idea of Issodon. He was more of a reaction to trying to have an actually usable version of StfSing.

 

I shall consider things...

 

It has made me chuckle that you have a handle on my mindset via this platform...slightly bizarre to see that has leeched into my hobbying...

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