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Considering Custodes - two questions


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#1
balordazul

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I'm a long time wargamer and a BT/DG player for about 10 years and no I'm not a grumpy old man complaining about 2ed or rogue trader.  But, I have put my BT on the back burner until GW works out their plans on Primaris marines as I find it is be a poor gamble investing in marines right now.  

 

With my frustration at GW I wanted to get another army that would fall outside the Primaris issues.  Custodes seem interesting as it would be an elite army being a small model count but most likely about the same monetary cost but I have two concerns.

 

First is there a better option for the Ven Dread then the really bad plain one GW makes.  Can the FW Custode dread be converted with a ranged weapon?

 

Second looking at the stats via the index it looks like Custodes would have a very hard time on the table top.  Ignoring stuff that is not released the index unit seems to be either two light on resilience and clearly not able to provide much ranged fire support.  As someone that has not played them and only going on my years of wargaming they look like they could be very challenging.  How are they doing on the table top?

 

PS: I do not like playing with jerk army lists but I also enjoy having good games.  My favorite WFB army was Tomb Kings and I like Death Guard when they were very challenging back in 3.5.  



#2
Matt_149

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At the moment they aren't an army really....in Feb we should have a whole new codex etc so wait a month? The unit of 5 custodes can be taken in units of 3 to 5 and the terminators will be able to be taken individually or in groups of 3. That's about all we know at the moment I think? Don't know if anyone knows anything else at this point...

#3
balordazul

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Thanks Matt!



#4
Matt_149

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That's OK I am starting a custodes army myself so will get 3 boxes ready for the cool new stuff thats coming should give me enough time to paint that lot ready for the codex! Have a look at a video by "chapter master valrak" on YouTube he's done a good review of all the new custodes units he saw at the open day and some info on the dex...deep striking as back as a stratagem etc. 👍👍

Edited by Matt_149, 07 January 2018 - 02:51 PM.


#5
Constantine Trajanus Ultor

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I'm a long time wargamer and a BT/DG player for about 10 years and no I'm not a grumpy old man complaining about 2ed or rogue trader.  But, I have put my BT on the back burner until GW works out their plans on Primaris marines as I find it is be a poor gamble investing in marines right now.  

 

With my frustration at GW I wanted to get another army that would fall outside the Primaris issues.  Custodes seem interesting as it would be an elite army being a small model count but most likely about the same monetary cost but I have two concerns.

 

First is there a better option for the Ven Dread then the really bad plain one GW makes.  Can the FW Custode dread be converted with a ranged weapon?

 

Second looking at the stats via the index it looks like Custodes would have a very hard time on the table top.  Ignoring stuff that is not released the index unit seems to be either two light on resilience and clearly not able to provide much ranged fire support.  As someone that has not played them and only going on my years of wargaming they look like they could be very challenging.  How are they doing on the table top?

 

PS: I do not like playing with jerk army lists but I also enjoy having good games.  My favorite WFB army was Tomb Kings and I like Death Guard when they were very challenging back in 3.5.  

 

The Contemptor Dread GW makes is awful, just looks plain awful ! I have 2 x FW Contemptor Dreads and you can convert it. I'm waiting on the Codex before I convert the other one I have. 

 

36952857261_ca850c4bb4_z.jpg

 

The army is tough as nails, especially running them with Swords and Boards like I do; You get a T5,  +4 Inv Save and a +2 save with 3 Wounds. I would expect the Termies and other new infantry to be even tougher. 

 

You are correct though, right now, other then the Contmptor Dread with Kheres Assualt / Multi-Melta and the Land Raider, we don't have much else to shoot with. Until we get the Codex, we don't have enough info for a solid understanding of how the full Custodes list will play. A lot more options will open soon, and I am really excited ! 


Edited by Constantine Trajanus Ultor, 07 January 2018 - 05:55 PM.

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#6
balordazul

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That's OK I am starting a custodes army myself so will get 3 boxes ready for the cool new stuff thats coming should give me enough time to paint that lot ready for the codex! Have a look at a video by "chapter master valrak" on YouTube he's done a good review of all the new custodes units he saw at the open day and some info on the dex...deep striking as back as a stratagem etc.

 

I picked up one box for a 5 man guardian spears ..... as I loved all the old art work of the golden throne.  Also yes I just watched that video and it was very interesting and has me excited.  I would love to have something besides a landraider in Custodes as I do feel their could be much more interesting design choices to be made for transport. (not including FW in that thought) 

 

 

 

I'm a long time wargamer and a BT/DG player for about 10 years and no I'm not a grumpy old man complaining about 2ed or rogue trader.  But, I have put my BT on the back burner until GW works out their plans on Primaris marines as I find it is be a poor gamble investing in marines right now.  

 

With my frustration at GW I wanted to get another army that would fall outside the Primaris issues.  Custodes seem interesting as it would be an elite army being a small model count but most likely about the same monetary cost but I have two concerns.

 

First is there a better option for the Ven Dread then the really bad plain one GW makes.  Can the FW Custode dread be converted with a ranged weapon?

 

Second looking at the stats via the index it looks like Custodes would have a very hard time on the table top.  Ignoring stuff that is not released the index unit seems to be either two light on resilience and clearly not able to provide much ranged fire support.  As someone that has not played them and only going on my years of wargaming they look like they could be very challenging.  How are they doing on the table top?

 

PS: I do not like playing with jerk army lists but I also enjoy having good games.  My favorite WFB army was Tomb Kings and I like Death Guard when they were very challenging back in 3.5.  

 

The Contemptor Dread GW makes is awful, just looks plain awful ! I have 2 x FW Contemptor Dreads and you can convert it. I'm waiting on the Codex before I convert the other one I have. 

 

36952857261_ca850c4bb4_z.jpg

 

The army is tough as nails, especially running them with Swords and Boards like I do; You get a T5,  +3 Inv Save and a +2 save with 3 Wounds. I would expect the Termies and other new infantry to be even tougher. 

 

You are correct though, right now, other then the Contmptor Dread with Kheres Assualt / Multi-Melta and the Land Raider, we don't have much else to shoot with. Until we get the Codex, we don't have enough info for a solid understanding of how the full Custodes list will play. A lot more options will open soon, and I am really excited ! 

 

 

That looks wonderful ..... my bank account is going to hurt in all the right ways.  Also well done and I'm going to copy your conversion as it is very nice.  Also I was considering getting a second box for some sword and board so I guess I'm going back over to the GW store today as none of my FLG have Custodes in stock.



#7
Crizza

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The Telemon has ranged weaponry, although I doubt it will be ported into the new codex...
The Iliastus Accelerator Culverin has a range of 36" while the Arachnus Storm Cannon can choose between 48" and 72" since it has two fire modes (FW rules)... I also have the two Custodes Contemptors and since I magnetize then, it shouldn't be such a big deal to slap ranged weapon onto them, if they get them.



#8
balordazul

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Just ordered the two FW dreads with the two ranged weapons to magnetize them.  



#9
Crizza

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So the Achillus and Galatus? Great models :)



#10
balordazul

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Yep! Along with a Kheres Assault Cannon and MM so I can have them as Ven Dreads from the new codex with the different weapon options.

 

It will be interesting to see what options will change when the codex comes out.  My guess is that we still have a few months before they hit maybe April.  If they are still working on other models and everything new they showed is still in resin.

 

I put together one unit of sword and board and one of guardian spears.  



#11
noigrim

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If you want to win play eldar or guard custodes are for fluff/fab players

 

8th is a game of hordes and firepower, and the gold boys have neither


Edited by noigrim, 08 January 2018 - 12:56 AM.

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#12
balordazul

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TK and BT player here so I'm not looking for a beat stick army but you might have overlooked that and focused in on other elements.

 

My main goal is to have another army that is outside the primaris issues GW has created.  Custodes has always been something cool in the background (normally core lore books) but I was not going to look into them unless GW did a real release like they seem to be doing shortly.  

 

Wait, your telling me GW has a hard on for Eldar and IG?  Dang, I should be watching more Fox news to keep up to date.  ..... I'm just messing with you, the Nottingham crew have been stuck in their loop for years now. 

 

PS: Plus, this feels a lot like the old Daemon Hunters as in a very small elite force.  So that saves on space so my 1 year old and wife has taken up most of the house.


Edited by balordazul, 08 January 2018 - 01:28 AM.


#13
Matt_149

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Know that feeling as I have a small person as well 👍. They did tell valdrak(?) that 3 terminators killed 30 boys at the loss of one so I'd imagine they will kill hordes OK 😀

#14
balordazul

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Ya, I was not completely clear on his story there and 30 boys is only 180 points but were they shoota boys that had several turns to get some dakka off?  I would guess three Custode terminators would fall between 65 to 100 points per model.  Time will tell but I honestly do not have a lot of faith in the GW testing teams to do anything more than unit A charges unit B and see what happens.    

 

I'm happy that they are taking into account how does a extreme small model count deal with hordes as well as the movement concerns.  

 

I also did not glue on the shield arms before painting the models as it would make painting to challenging.  



#15
Crizza

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If you want to win play eldar or guard custodes are for fluff/fab players

 

8th is a game of hordes and firepower, and the gold boys have neither

In Valraks video the Custodes were described as horde killers. One squad of the new Custodes Terminators took out an Ork mob while loosing one model.
And knowing GW they will most likely give them something shooty.
Pointy wise you will get a very small army compared to others.
I built a list with Inferno with 13 models and ended up with 1520 points, if I throw my six Aquilons into the mix I end up with 2060 points.

What is a fab player? :D



#16
Sete

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Fabulous player obviously.
Not that he is an extraordinary player (he might be) he just has style.

Edited by Sete, 08 January 2018 - 12:19 PM.


#17
Dulahan

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One thing in the Termies favor.  Imagine if that's a long ranged Grenade Launcher with good anti-horde stuff.  Like a Str 5 or 6, AP-1 weapon, especially if it's Assault d6 or something?  That might do it?  Even better if they've also got a Pistol weapon attached to said arm for dealing with stuff that somehow survives a melee round even more effectively.  

The video also implied they're getting some new rules to deal with Hordes too.  I almsot wonder if the Aries Shrike (Or whatever it is called) will come back with some sort of -1 to Ld style ability or something?

I'm also really curious what sort of saves that Termie armor will have.  I mean, we know it'll be 2+, but what's the invul?  Because the Sword and Board dudes are 3++ it's hard to get more durable than that.  so the Termie armor seems as much about having More Firepower than being more durable.

Either way, I'm really curious to see how Anti-Horde gets implemented.  Because right now the biggest issue (Not called the Psychic phase) and strength at once of the Custodes is how darned consistent they are.  You can pretty much assume X results every turn, and there's not really much room to skew higher, and thus no room for 'explosively' good turns.  But even one round of too many ones can really hurt to the point of being a "OK, GG" sort of situation. But against a Horde army, particularly one with Morale Immunity like Nids, you almost literally don't have enough attacks to deal with it if they play smart and keep their synapse stuff safe from CC with you and out of ranged weapon range - and given how few ranged optiosn you have, that's not hard on a good gaming table.

...OK, the shooting phase is a big weakness too.  Especially if you don't have a Land Raider and some Contemptors with Kheres Assault Cannons.



#18
Sete

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We still don't know their CT and the stratagems.

#19
balordazul

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Well the Balistus Grenade Launcher is wrist mounted making me think it could be similar to the Grenade harness and the Deathshroud plague spurt gauntlet.  My guess is that it will be a D6 pistol type weapon.

 

We also know a few things that are consistent about terminator armor in this edition besides the 2+ save they will also be getting +1W and DS.  The custode terminator models look extremely close to cataphractii armor and I would not be shocked if they simply went with that.  I would like something a little more interesting but we will see.

 

The bikes are super interesting to me to see if those are just standard hurricane bolters on the front or a guardian spear style hurricane bolter setup.  

 

I would also be completely shocked if Custodes came out without a new vehicle or flyer in their release as well as 2 or 3 unseen character models besides the one already previewed most likely being 1 more HQ and 2 elites.  

 

Are their any good books on Custode lore that is outside the HH time?



#20
Sete

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Emperors Legion and Carrion throne deal with 40k Custodes. Both great books aswell.
Emperors legion will give more info on them tho.

Edited by Sete, 08 January 2018 - 06:44 PM.


#21
Constantine Trajanus Ultor

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The Emperors Legion - Chris Wraight is set in the recent lore. It is very good, IMO

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#22
balordazul

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Thanks guys!  Now to clone myself to get everything done ... take care of the one year old, paint a new army, read some new books and keep up with work.  

 

#cheated ----- I just picked them up on audio so I can manage my time a little better.  Now time to prime my 15 custodes if the weather is good enough.  


Edited by balordazul, 08 January 2018 - 07:05 PM.


#23
noigrim

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You should also listen to the master of mankind for a good insight into the custodes's history


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#24
Frostbit3

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Master of mankind is the book to read to psych yourself up for custodes
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#25
balordazul

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Thanks Fostbit3!






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