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RoW & Alternative FoC


K3nn3rs

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I’ve seen some chat that claims with the release of the new HH rules that the limitations which prevented combining the alternative FoC and RoWs have now gone.

 

Thoughts?

 

I can see how it could be used to create themed armies but equally I imagine there are ways it could be quickly abused...

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Thought: now that Onslaught armies are going to be a tad but more prevalent due to Heavy Support having so many enticing options, what occurs in the event of two Onslaught armies going against one another with regards to “can never go first unless they seize” I wonder?
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Roll off I guess

Most likely; the rules interaction, to me at least, would be a form of double negative where they just end up negating each other.

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Yeah I have the rulebook, all it says now is both players choose one of the Force Organisational charts listed. 'Crusade' is the basic one (same as AoD), the others are listed as Optional. 

 

In reality, you're gonna know in advance whether or not your opponent has one of the alternative Force Orgs. Either because the event will specify which are allowed (most disallow anything except Crusade, because its too hard to balance the others). Or you've organised a game and know what you are playing.

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There is no such provision, because you cannot combine Legiones Astartes RoWs and alternative force organisation charts as written in Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List pg. 10 (enchanced edition). In my humble opinion the army list book (specific rules) overwrites general rulebook (generic rules).

Edited by Dhar'Neth
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The Legion Astartes - Age of Darkness army book (pg 10) has a paragraph that states that the 3 alternative and optional FoC requires your opponents permission. In the same paragraph it states these are not to be combined with Legion RoW.

 

My understanding is that no such paragraph exists in the new HH rule book when providing the rules for the alternative FoC. Does this mean:

1) you no longer need permission (rule book takes precedent)

2) you no longer need permission and can combine with RoW (rule book takes precedent)

3) you need permission and can’t combine with a RoW (AoD takes precedence)?

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So in this case, I believe that the rulebook trumps.

 

Normally I'd be inclined to say that the Army List does, but seeing as the rulebook is a much newer rule set and pretty much rewrites that entire section (which in itself was altered a lot for the Army List book!) it would be logical to use that one, being the most recent and intended full update to the rules.

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I’m pretty sure Legiones Astartes army list takes precedence over rulebook (at least until this will be FAQed). On a side note, if they intended otherwise they'd update ibook version of the legiones army list with updated rule if this was intended to be changed. Remember that there are also other non-marine armies in the game that don't have such restriction.
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Have they ever updated the e-version/ iBook HH red books? I’m not sure they have so I don’t think that’s an indication of intent.

 

You could argue that the fact they’ve not just copied and pasted the paragraph from the AoD red book into the new HH Rule book but have re-written it shows that the intent is to allow both the use of alternative FoC and not restrict the use of RoW with them...

 

Army books taking precedent over rule books is, IMO, because in the past Army books came out after the rule book. We’re in the position that the rule book is out after the army books.

 

I only have a legion army. If you’re saying non- Legion armies don’t have this restriction then surely that’s also an indication of intent to allow the use of the alt FoC and allow RoW with them?

 

I’m unemotional about the decision either way. I can see it breathing some life into some of the more restrictive RoW but equally it could be abused. I’m just interested to see what people think.

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Have they ever updated the e-version/ iBook HH red books? I’m not sure they have so I don’t think that’s an indication of intent.

 

They have updated enhanced edition quite recently correcting many mistakes and adding missing options (such as adding dedicated transport options for terminators).

 

Army books taking precedent over rule books is, IMO, because in the past Army books came out after the rule book. We’re in the position that the rule book is out after the army books.

 

The new rulebook states that other publications, such as army books take precedence over rulebook if they contradict it (page 20 last sentence in frame)

 

I only have a legion army. If you’re saying non- Legion armies don’t have this restriction then surely that’s also an indication of intent to allow the use of the alt FoC and allow RoW with them?

 

I mean that RoWs are unique for Legiones Astartes and that means there is no reason to mention them in the main rulebook. Other armies don't have RoWs so this could confuse some players (I know this is unlikely, yet still possible). Edited by Dhar'Neth
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Yeah the new rulebook does have the distinction in a pop-out box, that army books always trump the main rulebook in regards to conflicts. So if the Legion red book says you can't take anything except Crusade (what they're calling AoD now) without opponents permission, and ROW don't work with anything except Crusade, then that's that.

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