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Jump Pack adjustment


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51 replies to this topic

#1
Panda_Saurus_Rex

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So apparently rules as written, units with the Fly keyword can only move through models/terrain in the movement phase. No more pile in or charge over shenanigans.

https://i.imgur.com/RX5Xycg.jpg



#2
Rcketmouse

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Well that would change things for sure…

#3
Lord_Caerolion

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That certainly would make it match the previous designer intent that the Jump Packs are used more for getting around, and the final charge is done on foot. Still, I prefer the idea of the Assault Marines basically landing on their targets as part of the charge. Hopefully we'll get an FAQ soon to clarify things.


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#4
The Unseen

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I'll believe that when it's actually printed in an FaQ, not a Facebook post.
Cause that is not RaW, but it might be RaI, but I doubt it.
It doesn't say "movement phase" anywhere in there, it just says move.
And you move models in several different phases.
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#5
Panda_Saurus_Rex

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I didn't want to believe it either but I checked and it's true. The only time it mentions that having Fly let's you ignore models and terrain is in movement phase.

#6
The Unseen

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No, it doesn't.

It says, "If the DATASHEET for a model says it can FLY, it can move across models and terrain as if they weren't there".

No where in that does it specify that it applies only to movement happening in the movement phase, and GW never defines "move a model" as something specific to the movement phase.
There are charge moves, pile in moves, consolidation moves, move after shooting, etc.

Unless you want to say, because the rules for how to resolve attacks are specified in the shooting phase section of the rules, they don't apply to the fight phase
Because that's what your saying.

Or the fact that the "only reroll a die once" rule is located in the psychic phase section, it doesn't apply anywhere else?

The game doesn't function at all if the rules stated only apply during the phase in which their explained.
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#7
toaae

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I didn't want to believe it either but I checked and it's true. The only time it mentions that having Fly let's you ignore models and terrain is in movement phase.

 

The only time it mentions that models can't move through other models is in the movement phase. So, RAW, all charging units ignore other models so long as they are the charge target.


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#8
Brother Crimson

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Let’s wait and see what the rule team will determine.

We are due for codex faq anyway.

#9
Diagramdude

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Aaand /thread

#10
Panda_Saurus_Rex

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The rules very specifically state that close combat attacks are virtually identical to shooting attacks and even tells you the page on which to look it up.

The only re-roll one dice rule is on the same page as the psychic phase but not within the psychic phase.

All aspects of charging, pile-in, and consolidate have very specific rules on how you can move your models.

Look gents I'm not happy about this either; I regularly play lists with 30+ jump pack models so this greatly effects the way I play the game but none of your arguments have been valid.

#11
sfPanzer

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No that's not RAW. That's not how the rules work or you would've to ignore EVERY movement related rule during the charge including moving through units (hint: you don't!).
 


Edited by Morticon, 13 January 2018 - 12:58 PM.
easy, please

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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#12
CradleToGrave

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How has 8th edition been out since June 2017, yet this argument is only now making its rounds on these forums? Flying models have existed since Day 1. It's like no one tried to charge with one until recently, and suddenly there are objections? What gives?
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#13
brother_b

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I'm trying to understand so the whole fly over screening models during the charge is a no go? This was talked about at length during a podcast recently how people were charging units behind screens by using fly. I'm still trying to comprehend.

gallery_62972_10568_12006.jpgsml_gallery_101149_13675_4249.jpg


#14
sfPanzer

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I'm trying to understand so the whole fly over screening models during the charge is a no go? This was talked about at length during a podcast recently how people were charging units behind screens by using fly. I'm still trying to comprehend.


Don't listen to it. Of course it's a go. Just some people taking the rules apart for no reason who say it's a no-go.

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#15
Crimson Ghost IX

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Just gonna chime in and say "in my opinion" this is a bunch of attempted rules lawyering Malarkey.

Jumping over things with a jump pack is fine. Play your 30+ dudes and have fun.

 

Pay it no mind says I brother_b.

Nobody I know or have seen plays it this way.

Nor should they... until GW says otherwise.



#16
Diagramdude

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I don't have the core rules in front of me but I think somewhere in the movement phase pages it says most movement happens in the movement phase but can happen in other phases as well

#17
Lord_Caerolion

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I'd also argue that all other "specific phase" rules do just that, they specify the Phase, eg "when you pick a unit to move in the Movement Phase it may Advance". The rules for this question though just specify that they're for Moving. It then says that "if the datasheet for a model says it can FLY, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there". It's not specific, it doesn't mention the Movement Phase.


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#18
Moostick

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I really wouldn't worry about what the Facebook page response says. They've been wrong several times before regarding rules, so until they officially FAQ it in an officially released document, what they say there means nothing.

You'd think the people who operate that would learn their lesson by now.

#19
toaae

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All aspects of charging, pile-in, and consolidate have very specific rules on how you can move your models.

Look gents I'm not happy about this either; I regularly play lists with 30+ jump pack models so this greatly effects the way I play the game but none of your arguments have been valid.

 

You're right, which is why I refer you to my previous statement:

 

 

I didn't want to believe it either but I checked and it's true. The only time it mentions that having Fly let's you ignore models and terrain is in movement phase.

 

The only time it mentions that models can't move through other models is in the movement phase. So, RAW, all charging units ignore other models so long as they are the charge target.

 

 

 

If anyone wants to stand on the grounds of "the phase specifically tells you how to execute moving", then I will point out a noticeable lack of any mention about models not being able to move through models in the charge phase. Now, we have two ways to handle this. Either say RAW, all charging models ignore other models for movement, or that a charge move acts similar to a movement phase move.


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#20
Charlo

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How has 8th edition been out since June 2017, yet this argument is only now making its rounds on these forums? Flying models have existed since Day 1. It's like no one tried to charge with one until recently, and suddenly there are objections? What gives?

 

Probably something to do with the premier jump-pack equipped army getting a codex and starting to murderize stuff on gaming tables both old and new in a flash of Red Fury, leaving the.... More inadequate forces salty at our unrivaled mobility and smashy-ness ;)


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#21
Panda_Saurus_Rex

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So I looked it up and Toaae is correct. In the same vein that moving over models with the Fly keyword is only in the movement phase, the only time it mentions that you can't move through other models is also the movement phase. So RAW everyone can do it if you roll high enough.



#22
sfPanzer

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sigh...


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#23
Palwatch

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Honestly in my shop we've been playing it that you can NOT move over models or terrain while charging. As written they are the rules. There is no other way to interpret them.

#24
sfPanzer

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Honestly in my shop we've been playing it that you can NOT move over models or terrain while charging. As written they are the rules. There is no other way to interpret them.

Obviously there is.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#25
Palwatch

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Ok. Must be simpler here




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