Mort's BA-Dex Observations.

[Charlo]

Tasty.

[Are Verlo]

Are - you literally just changed my whole design/build with one post.

 

Priests and Chaplains are now worth weight in gold. My mind is blown. Really wish I had figured that out/heard it sooner.

 

Great work, mate.

Just glad to help and make sure close combat remains significant.

[Helias_Tancred]

I apologize if this topic was already discussed, but is there any idea why our biker sergeants do not have access to combi-weapons such as a combi-plasma or combi-melta for example? Our FAQ didn't address it.

[Morticon]

I apologize if this topic was already discussed, but is there any idea why our biker sergeants do not have access to combi-weapons such as a combi-plasma or combi-melta for example? Our FAQ didn't address it.

 

No clue, matey.  Maybe ask on Warhammer community! 

[Remtek]

Yeah, the CP miner thing is quite broken in conjuction with BA. Had a game where i used honour the chapter every turn and DoA 3 times, feels a bit dirty. I kinda hope it gets nerfed, because our warlord traits are actually  both useful and cool now 

 

 

I apologize if this topic was already discussed, but is there any idea why our biker sergeants do not have access to combi-weapons such as a combi-plasma or combi-melta for example? Our FAQ didn't address it.

You can use the flowchart and index options. 

[Firepower]

:raises hand:

 

What is the CP Miner? 

[Morticon]

:raises hand:

 

What is the CP Miner? 

Astra Militarum Commander with "Kurov's Aquila" and Warlord Trait "Grand Strategist". 

 

A. Every time your opponent uses a strat, roll a die.  On a 5+, you get one. 

B. For every command point you use, roll a die. On a 5+ you get one back.

C. Once per game you can reroll a failed hit, wound or armour save in your army. 

 

I take as a 30 point Auxiliary  at -1 CP,  but you can get it as cheap as a 70, for no CP reduction in a patrol detach..  

[Firepower]

Wow...you guys use a lot of dirty tactics :teehee:

[Charlo]

Nah, GW just didn't balance the number of CP each army gets :p

[Blackcadian]

 

 

:raises hand:

 

What is the CP Miner?

Astra Militarum Commander with "Kurov's Aquila" and Warlord Trait "Grand Strategist".

 

A. Every time your opponent uses a strat, roll a die. On a 5+, you get one.

B. For every command point you use, roll a die. On a 5+ you get one back.

C. Once per game you can reroll a failed hit, wound or armour save in your army.

 

I take as a 30 point Auxiliary at -1 CP, but you can get it as cheap as a 70, for no CP reduction in a patrol detach..

Dang I forgot C in my last game, too :(

 

The absolute cheapest you can go is about 50 Pts. for a Vanguard Detachment that’ll even give you +1 CP.

[Blackcadian]

Wow...you guys use a lot of dirty tactics :teehee:

Imo it entirely depends on the opponent/setting. We have an Eldar player in our group who simply cannot pull punches. He’ll bring the most filthy list he can manage and expects no less from his opponents. But I’ll tone down my lists when playing other players.

 

Similarly in a tournament setting I’d want to bring the most brutal list I can imagine

[Karhedron]

1. I think i'd like a bigger DC - 10/12 men- I've said that before though, just dont know where id find the points. 

5. Assault marines were not great at all.  Tied stuff up, and fulfilled a degree of purpose by contributing to engaging the enemy, but lacked any real teeth for major assaults.

Drop the ASM for more Death Company? Or are you running a Brigade?

[Morticon]

 

1. I think i'd like a bigger DC - 10/12 men- I've said that before though, just dont know where id find the points. 

5. Assault marines were not great at all.  Tied stuff up, and fulfilled a degree of purpose by contributing to engaging the enemy, but lacked any real teeth for major assaults.

Drop the ASM for more Death Company? Or are you running a Brigade?

 

 

Running a brigade  sadly.  I may look to 2x Batallions. 

 

Wow...you guys use a lot of dirty tactics

We call it "playing by the rules" down here.  

[Kallas]

 

Wow...you guys use a lot of dirty tactics

We call it "playing by the rules" down here.

Yeah, heavily agree with Mort here, it's just using the rules. Personally, I dislike taking something overly powerful in my lists just because it's powerful, but that doesn't mean that it's a dirty tactic if someone else does - they're still comfortably within the rules to do such a thing.

 

There's actually some interesting game theory, which says that (assuming that the game can be fixed, such aa via GW FAQ/Errata) you should play the most powerful things to properly reveal them. LVO really highlighted the ridiculous brutality of Dark Reapers: if they hadn't been put in to LVO lists, they wouldn't be any less powerful, but they wouldn't be on the radar in the same way.

 

Though that is more for organised play kinds of games, where the visibility helps highlight it (I believe the analogy my friend used was DOTA which obviously has far better data gathering tools).

[Morticon]

Agreed.  There were 4 players, I believe, that used the miner this weekend - and all of us agree that its absolutely stupid and deserves a hard nerf.  Even changing the 5+ to a 6+ would be perfect. 

[Diagramdude]

I think the most elegant fix would be to change the wording of Grand Strategist to only work on ASTRA MILITARUM stratagems and Veritas Vitae to only work on BLOOD ANGEL stratagems. The issue isn't CP regen needing to be nerfed to a 6+, its the combination of a WL trait from one faction and a relic from another.

 

It's that way with the Death Guard Tallyman, his ability only works when you spend CP on DEATH GUARD stratagems.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Lots of useful info here guys thank you. I would like to get your guys take on something. My local meta is starting to get more and more competitive lately and my Templar army just doesn't have the chop it used to. I'm looking at allying in some hard hitting BA goodness. Here's my BT + BA 2k point list idea:

 

Blood Angel Battalion

Captain, Shield, Hammer, Relic Jetpack, Artisan of War, DC Strat 

Librarian, Bike, Shield of Sang, Unleash Rage

 

Scouts

Scouts 

Scouts

 

Death Company x10

4 Power swords, 2 Power fists, 2 Chainswords, 2 Power Axes

 

Black Templar Battalion-

Captain on a bike, Power fist

Lieutenant, jetpack, power sword

 

Crusaders, Plasma, Combi Plasma, Lascannon

Crusaders, Plasma, Combi Plasma, Lascannon

Crusaders, Melta, Combi Melta

 

Twin Las Razorback

Twin Las Razorback

Twin Assault Cannon Razorback

 

Leviathan Dreadnought

Quadmortar

 

The idea is that the BA detachment is giving me all the nasty CC goodness I could want, where the BT detachment serves as a fire base and the Leviathan dread has a big X on its head saying shoot me or I kill things dead. 

 

Now I've seen that you have been using Vanguard Vets extensively in your list, specifically for storm shields. I don't know if in game you are buffing the vanguard vets in some way but I've found them to be lackluster in just about every way. In my experience they're far too expensive for a model that dies on a 1 or 2 and only has 2 attacks that hit on a 3+ unless those attacks are strength 4 ap nothing, which I don't rate personally. 

 

What I'm looking for in that death company unit is something that will melt what it touches. The idea I have in my head is that the biker librarian starts on the board, and moves into position to buff the death company wherever they plan to either pregame move up to or deep strike down. I was thinking about a chaplain as well, but my thinking was that my Captain and the Death Company probably won't be too far away from each other, so I would be re-rolling 1s to hit anyway. I'm open to re-thinking this one, as I'm not sure where the smash Captain is supposed to go. Does he charge in solo? Is he supposed to be using the deny overwatch to help the DC with a 9'' re roll charge?  Basically, that second HQ is there purely to buff the DC.

 

Looking for any advice here. The BT detachment is built is on what has worked for me in the past, and the loadout on the death company models is built on what models I currently own, hence all of those power swords. Don't know if they're worth it or not. 

[Diagramdude]

Sydonian, the Librarian on Bike is interesting, but if you don't take WIngs of Sanguinius you're doing it wrong!!! IMO, if you're gonna pay 126 for a librarian on bike, find the extra 19 points for Mephiston. He has T5 and a 7" move, and is pretty much far superior in almost every way other than base movement compared to a biker libby.

[SydonianDragoon404]

I may actually end up taking the Sanguinor instead ever since I saw that little strat about keeping deep striking auras in range. No need to rely on psykers for +1 attack! He's a beast himself as well, but 170 points? I'm not sure...

[Morticon]

I think the most elegant fix would be to change the wording of Grand Strategist to only work on ASTRA MILITARUM stratagems and Veritas Vitae to only work on BLOOD ANGEL stratagems. The issue isn't CP regen needing to be nerfed to a 6+, its the combination of a WL trait from one faction and a relic from another.

 

It's that way with the Death Guard Tallyman, his ability only works when you spend CP on DEATH GUARD stratagems.

 

I will have to beg to differ my man.  The IG/AM are phenomenally powerful as is.  They have solid strats too, and with their core builds can muster very verstaile and varied Brigades.  Add in their ability to have access to regenning CP - its a recipe for broken.  The problem isn't (only) that other armies can use it, its that its just too good. 

Lots of useful info here guys thank you. I would like to get your guys take on something. My local meta is starting to get more and more competitive lately and my Templar army just doesn't have the chop it used to. I'm looking at allying in some hard hitting BA goodness. Here's my BT + BA 2k point list idea:

 

Blood Angel Battalion

Captain, Shield, Hammer, Relic Jetpack, Artisan of War, DC Strat 

Librarian, Bike, Shield of Sang, Unleash Rage

 

Scouts

Scouts 

Scouts

 

Death Company x10

4 Power swords, 2 Power fists, 2 Chainswords, 2 Power Axes

 

Black Templar Battalion-

Captain on a bike, Power fist

Lieutenant, jetpack, power sword

 

Crusaders, Plasma, Combi Plasma, Lascannon

Crusaders, Plasma, Combi Plasma, Lascannon

Crusaders, Melta, Combi Melta

 

Twin Las Razorback

Twin Las Razorback

Twin Assault Cannon Razorback

 

Leviathan Dreadnought

Quadmortar

 

The idea is that the BA detachment is giving me all the nasty CC goodness I could want, where the BT detachment serves as a fire base and the Leviathan dread has a big X on its head saying shoot me or I kill things dead. 

 

Now I've seen that you have been using Vanguard Vets extensively in your list, specifically for storm shields. I don't know if in game you are buffing the vanguard vets in some way but I've found them to be lackluster in just about every way. In my experience they're far too expensive for a model that dies on a 1 or 2 and only has 2 attacks that hit on a 3+ unless those attacks are strength 4 ap nothing, which I don't rate personally. 

 

What I'm looking for in that death company unit is something that will melt what it touches. The idea I have in my head is that the biker librarian starts on the board, and moves into position to buff the death company wherever they plan to either pregame move up to or deep strike down. I was thinking about a chaplain as well, but my thinking was that my Captain and the Death Company probably won't be too far away from each other, so I would be re-rolling 1s to hit anyway. I'm open to re-thinking this one, as I'm not sure where the smash Captain is supposed to go. Does he charge in solo? Is he supposed to be using the deny overwatch to help the DC with a 9'' re roll charge?  Basically, that second HQ is there purely to buff the DC.

 

Looking for any advice here. The BT detachment is built is on what has worked for me in the past, and the loadout on the death company models is built on what models I currently own, hence all of those power swords. Don't know if they're worth it or not. 

Consider Lemmy over a jump libby.  Will synergize better with the DC. 

[brother_b]

IG is super strong. Their ability to give out multiple orders that super power their units coupled with the ability to fill out all the necessary goodies for 8th edition (bodies and big guns) makes them insane.

 

Add in the cheap points costs of troops and their ability to mine CP and you have a super solid stand alone army. My biggest loss came against a well played IG army.

[Diagramdude]

Would you still run the miner though without the Vitae for the N+1 5+ rolls? I think it is fine for certain factions to have access to CP regen, but linking it to only that faction's stratagems would eliminate the abuse of dual-faction double dipping via a WL trait and a relic.

[Morticon]

Would you still run the miner though without the Vitae for the N+1 5+ rolls? I think it is fine for certain factions to have access to CP regen, but linking it to only that faction's stratagems would eliminate the abuse of dual-faction double dipping via a WL trait and a relic.

 

Didnt rock the veritas this time round, because the Angels Wing is far too important, and i was worried that the additional -2 for the VV would reduce the total number of chances I get to roll in the first place. 

 

So, Yeah, miner in every BA list.  Im looking to seeing how else I can get him in with minimal IG stuff though. 

 

I'm thinking something cheest like a Master of Fleet, Astropath and Master of Ordnance for some solid fire support

[Calistarius]

Mort, what about this?

 

Commander - Grand Strategist

3x Heavy Weapons Squad

-3x Mortar team

 

Comes to 129 points and fits nicely in a Spearhead.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Calistarius

[Diagramdude]

Master of ordnance and fleet wouldn't do much on their own, they are buff units and it doesn't sound like you are taking many IG flyers or artillery