9x19 Parabellum Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Morticon: Sorry, but could you give me a stupid-proof breakdown of the "Tri-lock" method? Brother Aether 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Mephy knows when to fluff his rolls. Did you DoA the DC or FF em? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Got him locked in a corner, with the board hardcore locked down, to stop GK drops - NDK got smashed by a quickened and Red Rampaging Libby Dread. Going well so far despite a few big drawbacks. Charlo, librisrouge and Panzer 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Morticon: Sorry, but could you give me a stupid-proof breakdown of the "Tri-lock" method? I dont want to take any credit for the tactic (other than the name :P :P). First reposted here via BoLS I think. Basically, with standard base sizes, if you position each jump pack equipped model (since they're able to hop over/move through models) in a triangle position around one model. If you do this, mathematically a non-fly model is unable to squeeze between the space left. (Think illuminati :P ) Someone that will remember the thread can maybe repost a link? Shaez - DoA - with the russes on board, I needed to tri lock or go home. He has 1 NDK, 1 Strike of 5, 4 russes, 10 grunts and a Commander on the board (thats left). 2x5 Strikes in reserve. Pask is on 1 wound left, another Russ has taken 6. 3 of them cannot fire this turn. It's his 2nd turn now. I've lost 6 DC, 6 Tac, 3 Scouts and a Pod. I dont think i can kill the Russes, though- or even prevent them from firing - So, I could be in for a little trouble, late game. That being said, he has one Russ, a NDK and 5 strikes only to fire this turn. So i may have options, yet. Panzer and librisrouge 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Sweet, keep the reporting up! ;) Really nice to see that librarian dreads can perform well, I only tried mine once so far and it was a lot better than I expected - being a characters makes a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 A live batrep is pretty sweet when the workday is slow. :D Brother Aether 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Haha Agreed love the live reports from the front! Keep them coming!! Krash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Morticon: Sorry, but could you give me a stupid-proof breakdown of the "Tri-lock" method? I dont want to take any credit for the tactic (other than the name ). First reposted here via BoLS I think. Basically, with standard base sizes, if you position each jump pack equipped model (since they're able to hop over/move through models) in a triangle position around one model. If you do this, mathematically a non-fly model is unable to squeeze between the space left. (Think illuminati ) Someone that will remember the thread can maybe repost a link? This done in the consolidate phase right? If not, can't the opponent just be sure to lose the model that is trapped from one of the wounds we're sure to cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explorer1 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 A slightly more cunning version of the trick-lock, is when you lock a model in a unit you didn't declare against. That avoids the problem of "over killing" the unit and also avoids your opponent removing the tri-locked model if he fails morale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Morticon: Sorry, but could you give me a stupid-proof breakdown of the "Tri-lock" method? I dont want to take any credit for the tactic (other than the name ). First reposted here via BoLS I think. Basically, with standard base sizes, if you position each jump pack equipped model (since they're able to hop over/move through models) in a triangle position around one model. If you do this, mathematically a non-fly model is unable to squeeze between the space left. (Think illuminati ) Someone that will remember the thread can maybe repost a link? This done in the consolidate phase right? If not, can't the opponent just be sure to lose the model that is trapped from one of the wounds we're sure to cause? Yes, it works around two steps: pile in and consilidate Declare charges, target one, two or even 7648563 units as long as they are all within 12" of your unit. Move the first model so that it ends it move within 1" of one of the units you declared a charge against. Move some of your models to 1.00000001" away from an enemy model. This can be against a unit you not declare a charge against. (or move to 1" or less away from a unit you want to fight. More about this below). During pile-ins move closer to the nearest model. End your move 0.9" to 0.1" (or closer, just stay away from base to base) away from the enemy. Since you did not declare a charge against this unit you will not strike any blows and no models from the enemy unit will be removed. During consolidate you can, as a model with the fly keyword, move over an enemy model. Cosolidate allows you to move in any direction as long as you end the move closer to the nearest enemy model. So let us say you piled in and stopped 0.5" away. Use the pile in, move over his base and end 0.49999" or any distance that is less than 0.5" (because you have to end closer than the distance was before the consolidate). Stay relatively close and repeat this with 2 or more of your models.(Tri-lock is because 3 models will keep most normal bases from moving in any direction) In the enemy turn the opponent can not move the "locked" model away unless it can fly or otherwise move over infantry (knights and harlies can?). The enemy unit then ends its move within 1" of an enemy model and because of targeting restrictions the opponent can not target your unit. This can be done to lock down the unit you are fighting as well, but remember to take into consideration the morale phase. If you killed a bunch of his models, the losses in the morale phase might be ennough to remove all "tri-locked" models, freering the unit to fall back and end its move more then 1" away. This then gives the opponent the chance to target your unit in the shooting phase. Edited January 15, 2018 by Are Verlo librisrouge, Morticon, Kappel and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Wow that is incredibly gamey. I wouldn't do something like this unless I was at an ITC or something lol. The salt your opponent will have when you do this... good lord. Thank you for explaining. You tri-lock the unit you didn't charge. Really cool stuff. Thrown Pommel and Boudan 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explorer1 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 "shrug" - one persons gamey" is another person tactical use of the rules. Up until this stage in 8th, I've been playing Harlies. With rising crescendo they are the master of this tactic. I used it all the time. Nobody's got too salty so far!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Doesn't sound more gamey than putting the guy with the good save infront in 7th edition or a bazillion other examples to me. Surrounding your opponent is a valid tactic during battle. Thrown Pommel and Kappel 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Doesn't sound more gamey than putting the guy with the good save infront in 7th edition or a bazillion other examples to me. Surrounding your opponent is a valid tactic during battle. Yeah but it doesn't force that opponent to not be able to target you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Doesn't sound more gamey than putting the guy with the good save infront in 7th edition or a bazillion other examples to me. Surrounding your opponent is a valid tactic during battle. Yeah but it doesn't force that opponent to not be able to target you.. Uhm we're talking about surrounding someone in melee. There aren't many people who can concentrate on shooting someone far away while they are busy fighting against multiple opponents surrounding them. Also it's more about the surrounded model not being able to leave rather than not being able to target something else.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Doesn't sound more gamey than putting the guy with the good save infront in 7th edition or a bazillion other examples to me. Surrounding your opponent is a valid tactic during battle. Yeah but it doesn't force that opponent to not be able to target you.. Uhm we're talking about surrounding someone in melee. There aren't many people who can concentrate on shooting someone far away while they are busy fighting against multiple opponents surrounding them. Also it's more about the surrounded model not being able to leave rather than not being able to target something else.. Fair enough. But the unit can also not attack or be attacked. That is like seeing your enemy run past you as they attack the squad to your left and you just watch them run by and do it. Obviously there are limits to games and rules and a correction would need to be made stating that in the fight phase if you are within 1" of an enemy model you can make attacks against that model with models that are in range. Maybe just don't have a pile in move? It is an interesting strategy though for sure. I'm not saying it is a bad one. Just one I wouldn't use myself in friendly games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 There are ways to protect against "tri-locking" Keeping good distance between your own units is one possibility, but now and then this is not possible or desirable An other very good way is a tight formation. If my 9 dudes form a perfect 3x3 you have to make a crazy pile-in and consolidate to lock them all from moving away. If they form a perfect "grid" 3x3 models with 0.5" space between the modelse it will be next to impossible to "tri-lock". (Hormagaunts with a 6" consolidate might do this, few other units can manage.) Shooty DC are ace breaking apart the grid. Fire some bolters at the 3x3, any casualties by shooting greatly increase the chances for "tri-locking" after pile-ins and consolidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Fair enough. But the unit can also not attack or be attacked. That is like seeing your enemy run past you as they attack the squad to your left and you just watch them run by and do it. Obviously there are limits to games and rules and a correction would need to be made stating that in the fight phase if you are within 1" of an enemy model you can make attacks against that model with models that are in range. Maybe just don't have a pile in move? It is an interesting strategy though for sure. I'm not saying it is a bad one. Just one I wouldn't use myself in friendly games. The unit that gets Pile In/Consolidated into does, in fact, get to attack. Assume the following sequence of play: - Marine Squad charges into Enemy A, a few models move next to (but not within 1" of) Enemy B - Marine Squad is chosen to fight in the Fight Phase, they Pile In 3" and are now within 1" or both A and B (but can only hit A, because they didn't declare a charge against B) - Marine Squad punches a few enemy dudes, then Consolidates further into Enemy A and B, tri-locking a model in Enemy B's unit - (Assuming no other charging/fight first units and no other Marines to fight) Enemy can choose A and B to fight with (sequentially) as they are both within 1" or an enemy unit (assuming that A's casualties didn't knock them out of range) Enemy B gets to Pile In, attack and Consolidate. It's possible for them to dig themselves out (assuming they cause enough damage to break the tri-locking positioning) and then Fall Back. Tri-locking (a term which I love!) is a powerful positioning technique, but it isn't completely without flaws (such as Enemy B above getting to attack for 'free' without taking any damage) and can be used by any player (even mostly melee armies usually have some good shooting units that can be locked up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Fair enough. But the unit can also not attack or be attacked. That is like seeing your enemy run past you as they attack the squad to your left and you just watch them run by and do it. Obviously there are limits to games and rules and a correction would need to be made stating that in the fight phase if you are within 1" of an enemy model you can make attacks against that model with models that are in range. Maybe just don't have a pile in move? It is an interesting strategy though for sure. I'm not saying it is a bad one. Just one I wouldn't use myself in friendly games. The unit that gets Pile In/Consolidated into does, in fact, get to attack. Assume the following sequence of play: - Marine Squad charges into Enemy A, a few models move next to (but not within 1" of) Enemy B - Marine Squad is chosen to fight in the Fight Phase, they Pile In 3" and are now within 1" or both A and B (but can only hit A, because they didn't declare a charge against - Marine Squad punches a few enemy dudes, then Consolidates further into Enemy A and B, tri-locking a model in Enemy B's unit - (Assuming no other charging/fight first units and no other Marines to fight) Enemy can choose A and B to fight with (sequentially) as they are both within 1" or an enemy unit (assuming that A's casualties didn't knock them out of range) Enemy B gets to Pile In, attack and Consolidate. It's possible for them to dig themselves out (assuming they cause enough damage to break the tri-locking positioning) and then Fall Back. Tri-locking (a term which I love!) is a powerful positioning technique, but it isn't completely without flaws (such as Enemy B above getting to attack for 'free' without taking any damage) and can be used by any player (even mostly melee armies usually have some good shooting units that can be locked up). So very true. The best option is to "tri-lock" enemy shooty units, both to prevent it from shooting and protecting your unit from shooting. Using a charge-move slingshot, pile-in and consilidate to charge one 30 strong boyz mob and then "tri-lock" 30 more boyz with sluggas and choppas would be a bad idea. Also remeber that heroic intervention can be used to block space available to "tri-lockers". Say you end the charge move 1.01" away from a unit of lootas/havocs/random shooty unit. If you ended your charge move within 3" (6" for some) of an enemy character he can move the character to make it harder to tri-lock the shooty unit. It all depends on the character, your unit and the shooty unit in danger of being tri-locked. Would you potentially sacrifice a big mek with KFF to save 5 lootas from being tri-locked? Kallas and Morticon 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 A slightly more cunning version of the trick-lock, is when you lock a model in a unit you didn't declare against. That avoids the problem of "over killing" the unit and also avoids your opponent removing the tri-locked model if he fails morale. Correct - or to multicharge two units, and not attack the one. Also, if possible, try position the initial move in such a way that you will be tri-locking the most important models - special weapons, sarges, etc. So, if he has to remove models from morale etc, then its that special. Ideal, however, is to lock in models that wont be dying. We had to break yesterday, but will pick it up soon. Cant believe its only halfway through the 2nd turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 (also remember, doesnt work on units with fly! :( - and in the case of charging chaff, if you can only charge one unit, you're not likely to pull it off on account of you being forced to attack. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Nasty tactic, liking it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjed Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I am sure I am missing something here but isn't this tri-locking tactics nullified when the opponent piles in after your initial charge move and goes for base-to-base contact with your models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I am sure I am missing something here but isn't this tri-locking tactics nullified when the opponent piles in after your initial charge move and goes for base-to-base contact with your models? The single model that is tri-locked cannot move/ pile-in, as there is physically no space for them to do so between the bases of the 3 models it is locked between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Finished the game now. It only went to end of my turn 4 before he called it. He had a NDK, 5 GK and a russ left. I was sitting with 3 objectives, WL, LB, FB and 2 heavy points (from big guns). Nice to know the BA can dish it out when a little is in our favour (ie: good boards!) Boudan, Aothaine, Panzer and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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