Bryan Blaire Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Hmm here's a thing I hadn't considered. If GW replaced Space Marines with Primaris completely, they could never make historic campaigns to fill out the 10,000 years between the Heresy and current time line, or encourage such re-enactments in battle reports etc. I wonder if they considered this or even care? CPT Idaho, do you mean replaced as in "the current Primaris w/fluff" or if Marines had simply gained the Primaris stat line and there hadn't been any Primaris fluff? I think that in the case of the former, it makes a difference and they may have thought about that. In the latter, it wouldn't have mattered. However, they could still completely replace the previous era Marines completely with Primaris down the line (say in 3 years or so), and simply say that all previous era battles are fought with either the Codex or Index unit sheets as appropriate - the Indexes effectively let them kill almost all the birds with one stone. I don't think they have their eyes set on releasing any new campaign material set in the 10,000 or so years between the Heresy and M41 though. The trend now seems to be to do "New" - I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't see evidence of them looking back at "what came before except to try and tie off the "loose ends" so that they can proceed with all new stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Replacement Primaris, as in kill the old line then make some fluff to explain it. Anyway, I don't see them (GW) making any historic releases which is a shame as there's such potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Why couldn't you use Primaris Marines in lieu of normal Marines for historic? I just don't see GW focusing on historic battles, everything so far has been pushing the timeline forward or abstract to the timeline (Necromunda). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Replacement Primaris, as in kill the old line then make some fluff to explain it. Anyway, I don't see them (GW) making any historic releases which is a shame as there's such potential. Well, they are still doing the Horus Heresy stuff. We'll know to panic about the removal of the current Astartes models when they make a MkVII Horus Heresy kit. Who knows, they might even "save" the Old Astartes models by moving them under Horus Heresy, and keeping all future "historical" Astartes stuff under Forge World, like how they did the Badab War? It's not really surprising though, GW has never really directly done any historical stuff before, other than expanding the Horus Heresy lines. Everything else they've done has been in the "present". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 GW did used to encourage it though. Battle Reports, stories within the studio, showcasing armies and conversions in White Dwarf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Idaho, I think you may have hit the OP's intent (or it's already been discussed with 10 pages of chat): if Primaris replaces traditional Space Marines, then what is GW going to do about it? Just so I can type stuff ... A - Space Marines get phased out as a product and the game story is advanced to match. B - Space Marines get phased out as a product and the game story is retconned to match (is this the AoS equivalent?) C - Current status quo (Primaris + Space Marine) until the sun burns out. Any other options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 D - Different authors take different options from A to C above leading to a confusing mess of 'open canon' ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Idaho, I think you may have hit the OP's intent (or it's already been discussed with 10 pages of chat): if Primaris replaces traditional Space Marines, then what is GW going to do about it? Just so I can type stuff ... A - Space Marines get phased out as a product and the game story is advanced to match. B - Space Marines get phased out as a product and the game story is retconned to match (is this the AoS equivalent?) C - Current status quo (Primaris + Space Marine) until the sun burns out. Any other options? No, the AoS equivalent would be to make an entirely new setting, but letting everybody keep using the exact same models, just with new names/fluff. "Space Marines? Nonono, that was in Warhammer 40k. It's now Warhammer Space Battles, and these are the Void Knights of Terra. They just use the same models, but they're a completely different thing." It's most likely going to be either C, or a mix of A and C, where they advance the 40k storyline to the point that Primaris comprise the vast majority of each Chapter, but they expand the Horus Heresy section into a "Historical" section, and just move the current Astartes models into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Regular Marines will remain a thing forever, but won't get many new models, if any at all. That said, the Scout kit really needs an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Like a Neophyte kit, for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hopefully. I'd love to see a kitted-out Crusader Squad set, with some Initiates and Neophytes in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hopefully. I'd love to see a kitted-out Crusader Squad set, with some Initiates and Neophytes in there. And I'd love if my farts smelled like cherub smiles and rainbows. Both are about as likely, and both are as relevant (says the guy who made the cheeky joke to begin with :teehee:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I shared an opinion on the Warhammer 40k FB page. Let's say it was a bit of feedback. 10000 years ago the BT didn't have a damn about the codex, and while it's fair that they did accept the Primaris, they would not change their modus operandi just because they got a few new dudes in the chapter. Hopefully , if GW can be consistent with their own lore they will address it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormxlr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I shared an opinion on the Warhammer 40k FB page. Let's say it was a bit of feedback. 10000 years ago the BT didn't have a damn about the codex, and while it's fair that they did accept the Primaris, they would not change their modus operandi just because they got a few new dudes in the chapter. Hopefully , if GW can be consistent with their own lore they will address it. They wont adress anything. Their own lore is the last thing they care about it seems, its all about profit margins. Cmon its constantly mentioned that Custodes wear black capes and cloacks but for marketing purposes they were all painted in pre heresy red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 But ... red makes them go faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I'm still not convinced we even needed a larger scale model of Marines. They're huge. Far too big to be considered 28mm scale models. I just get perplexed when everyone talks as if it's what we've always wanted. When? I don't remember the B&C or Warseer asking for such big models in large numbers. Only ever one or 2 people doing conversions. Genuinely confused. I have heard of people wanting smaller Guardsmen. The Cadians have heads that are so big it really does look strange (so lots of people use 3ed party bits), and the Catachan basic box does show its age (the command squad looks much better!). FW guardsmen have much nicer proportions, and I have heard many wanting GW to make humans that size. They also look really nice next to marines. Instead we got Goliaths and Primaris... :( Still, the sculps are really nice. The scale is sadly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 To be fair, the Goliaths are literally supposed to be hulking mountains of vat-grown, gene-enhanced muscle, rather than "normal" looking people. The Eschers, who are supposed to be the "normal" people, are in the same scale as average people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 To be fair, the Goliaths are literally supposed to be hulking mountains of vat-grown, gene-enhanced muscle, rather than "normal" looking people. The Eschers, who are supposed to be the "normal" people, are in the same scale as average people. Yeah, in their background they are mentioned as often being grown larger than even space marines. But I don't think it looks good on the table. Also, 32mm bases in Necromunda 3D terrain is a huge restraint on how you have to build. They should definitely have been scaled down so they fit on 25mm bases. Actually, the old Golithas or even the current Catachans look really good as roided-up slabs of muscle. They have a nice scale for what is described. And the Escher are not the same scale as anything else. Just place a Chaos Cultist next to one and he will get pocked in the eye by her boob-armour. It's not case of high heels making the difference either, she is simply huge. Since they are making terrain like the Sector Mechanicus stuff, intended for the game, it would be nice if the humans they release are not out of scale with that terrain at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Escher are not normal humans. In the lore the chems they use are supposed to make women into amazonians while making their males shriveled husks. Putting my Tempestus Scion next to a Escher, and Escher comes about a half a head taller. So they make sense. House Orloc appear to be shorter than Escher as well, so comparable to a normal human. Cadians heads are too big, their heads are the size as a Tempestus helmeted head. So I think Tempestus are better scaled as alot of the awkward sizing is covered in armor giving it better scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Yeah, both Escher and Golithas have background to explain their oversized models. I just don't think it looks good on the table. Same with the Primaris. Of course there is background, but the scale creep is starting to look odd imo. How many threads have we had where people wondered how exactly you were supposed to fit 10 marines into a Rhino? How big are the transports supposed to be for the Primaris in that case? And 'big stuff' like Hive Tyrants and Dreadnoughts will need to become even bigger to fit with the new marines. And then everyone will need to make new terrain and so on. I mean, the Goliaths are larger than Primaris models. That's just too much, growth hormones or not. It doesn't look good, even if the models look nice. You might as well start plonking down models from any game, as long as the base is correct.Like, what is immersion-breaking with this picture? http://i.neoseeker.com/p/Games/PC/Strategy/Turn-based/warhammer_profilelarge.jpg You might say "nothing", but I think there is something that makes it feel much more like a representation of game pieces rather than a scene being played out. I want my battlefield to look cool. It shouldn't look like sci-fi chess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 To be fair, the Goliaths are literally supposed to be hulking mountains of vat-grown, gene-enhanced muscle, rather than "normal" looking people. The Eschers, who are supposed to be the "normal" people, are in the same scale as average people. Yeah, in their background they are mentioned as often being grown larger than even space marines. But I don't think it looks good on the table. Also, 32mm bases in Necromunda 3D terrain is a huge restraint on how you have to build. They should definitely have been scaled down so they fit on 25mm bases. Actually, the old Golithas or even the current Catachans look really good as roided-up slabs of muscle. They have a nice scale for what is described. Also, that's entirely (as far as I'm aware) entirely new Munda fluff, previously Goliaths were 'just' large steroid junkies. So was in all likelihood written purely to justify the mad size of the new Goliaths. But yeah, putting Golaiths onto 32s was a silly idea should've been shut down at the design stage. Escher are not normal humans. In the lore the chems they use are supposed to make women into amazonians while making their males shriveled husks. Putting my Tempestus Scion next to a Escher, and Escher comes about a half a head taller. Eh, not really. The Escher only have knackered males, I can't find any reference in the new, or old rulebook that their genetic issues have caused their women to be larger than 'regular humans'. Besides I thought people had done direct comparisons when munda first dropped, and when you account for the more upright pose a lot of the Gangers have and the massive platform shoes they all wear (seriously, those alone look like they add about half a head), they're actually similarly sized to normal humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 To be fair, the Goliaths are literally supposed to be hulking mountains of vat-grown, gene-enhanced muscle, rather than "normal" looking people. The Eschers, who are supposed to be the "normal" people, are in the same scale as average people. Yeah, in their background they are mentioned as often being grown larger than even space marines. But I don't think it looks good on the table. Also, 32mm bases in Necromunda 3D terrain is a huge restraint on how you have to build. They should definitely have been scaled down so they fit on 25mm bases. Actually, the old Golithas or even the current Catachans look really good as roided-up slabs of muscle. They have a nice scale for what is described. Also, that's entirely (as far as I'm aware) entirely new Munda fluff, previously Goliaths were 'just' large steroid junkies. So was in all likelihood written purely to justify the mad size of the new Goliaths. But yeah, putting Golaiths onto 32s was a silly idea should've been shut down at the design stage. Escher are not normal humans. In the lore the chems they use are supposed to make women into amazonians while making their males shriveled husks. Putting my Tempestus Scion next to a Escher, and Escher comes about a half a head taller. Eh, not really. The Escher only have knackered males, I can't find any reference in the new, or old rulebook that their genetic issues have caused their women to be larger than 'regular humans'. Besides I thought people had done direct comparisons when munda first dropped, and when you account for the more upright pose a lot of the Gangers have and the massive platform shoes they all wear (seriously, those alone look like they add about half a head), they're actually similarly sized to normal humans. You know what I didn't compensate for the boots, which put's them at size if not a bit shorter than a tempestus scio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Well, folks, since we've wandered pretty far afield and started talking about Necromunda, I think it's time to lock this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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