Your thoughts on the Primaris and lore progression

[Wargamer]

Except, as I have said before, the Imperium wasn't dying in 3rd. There was so much conflict that for every system lost another was reconquered, or rediscovered. For each piece of technology lost another was found. The Imperium averaged a draw against the universe - you could only apply such ideas as "winning" or "losing" to specific theatres.

 

5th ruined all of that. All they had to do was return to the old status quo.

[chapter master 454]

Except, as I have said before, the Imperium wasn't dying in 3rd. There was so much conflict that for every system lost another was reconquered, or rediscovered. For each piece of technology lost another was found. The Imperium averaged a draw against the universe - you could only apply such ideas as "winning" or "losing" to specific theatres.

 

5th ruined all of that. All they had to do was return to the old status quo.

 

But the old status quo was not something we can return to. As you said, it was just one big stagnant mess. Stagnation does not provide good story telling as eventually we would have the same story told twice, thrice, 5 times, 8 times and so on. "Oh...Armageddon is under attack again? How nice. Who is it this time? Angron, Orks, Tyranids or maybe the tau was their runback from their 2nd attempt". The old Status quo was not a story, it was a permanent act 1. All set-up, no pay off. That is poor story telling and world building. You can have all the interesting set-up you like and love but in the end eventually you will tire of being told it is 1 minute to midnight all the time. Always a maybe, always a could, always a possibility but never achieved. We would be in a permanent state of being blue-balled for interesting events occuring and by that reasoning campaigns such as medusa, cadia and otehr various interesting events can never happen. We cannot go back. Not because the box is now open but because the box was never closed to begin with.

 

We now ride into act 2 of the warhammer 40k universe after many years. This is act 2 without doubt, for now we have the main battles ahead. Real meaningful events unfolding and now twisting. There is a lot of poorly done lore and that is irrefutable, I could of written better lore and I am a terrible author though I would like to try my hand. Cawl is a terrible character not because of his character but how he appeared as the man behind a curtain that was never there to begin with along. Gulliman's revival having nothing to do with the rumours of his wound healing despite being in stasis but instead that is ignored and we got him revived with no catchs, no strings. Primaris are clearly there to push new models however that is what a business does and I feel Primaris are not the core issue, not even an issue to begin with in fact.

 

The issue lies no doubt in the quality of presentation. If I can dig it up, I do remember writing my own version of Gulliman's revival and if I do find it I would be interested in hearing what comments people here would have on it. Would it of been preferable? Possibly as I drew upon what was, not fabrications of lazy writers who were told to include new models for sale. progression is good, only if handled well and done correctly. The injection of new characters is only poor because their introduction was poor. Not because they are bad characters, however I will hold reservations for Cawl due to the extremely shifty nature of Gulliman's orders for these primaris and the armour. I almost feel like there ether is a badly neglected elements or...Et Tu Gulliman?

[Wargamer]

I never said it was stagnant. Quite the opposite. I never advocated for retelling the same story over and over - I'm pointing out that you could keep telling new stories without blowing up the setting. The setting itself was simply so vast that you could have a narrative campaign about Chaos vs Imperium every year, have Chaos WIN every year, and still the fundamental balance of the setting wouldn't change... Yet you'd have a narrative. Every year you get new worlds, new Regiments, new Battlefleets. New Chaos Warbands rise to prominence; heroes appear, become beloved by the fans and then die in glorious battle.

 

You could see how the Imperium draws troops in from further afield, and how aliens exploit this. You could see the alliances of desperation that form against the Chaos Black Crusade. You can have individual Chaos Lords breaking away to do their own thing.

 

Yet all the while, year after year, decade after decade, the Imperium still makes gains elsewhere. They are still growing in strength elsewhere. They are seemingly unbeatable elsewhere.

 

The universe is dynamic, yet the status quo maintained.

 

That's what 40k used to be.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Except, as I have said before, the Imperium wasn't dying in 3rd. There was so much conflict that for every system lost another was reconquered, or rediscovered. For each piece of technology lost another was found. The Imperium averaged a draw against the universe - you could only apply such ideas as "winning" or "losing" to specific theatres.

 

5th ruined all of that. All they had to do was return to the old status quo.

 

But the old status quo was not something we can return to. As you said, it was just one big stagnant mess. Stagnation does not provide good story telling as eventually we would have the same story told twice, thrice, 5 times, 8 times and so on. "Oh...Armageddon is under attack again? How nice. Who is it this time? Angron, Orks, Tyranids or maybe the tau was their runback from their 2nd attempt". The old Status quo was not a story, it was a permanent act 1. All set-up, no pay off. That is poor story telling and world building. You can have all the interesting set-up you like and love but in the end eventually you will tire of being told it is 1 minute to midnight all the time. Always a maybe, always a could, always a possibility but never achieved. We would be in a permanent state of being blue-balled for interesting events occuring and by that reasoning campaigns such as medusa, cadia and otehr various interesting events can never happen. We cannot go back. Not because the box is now open but because the box was never closed to begin with.

 

We now ride into act 2 of the warhammer 40k universe after many years. This is act 2 without doubt, for now we have the main battles ahead. Real meaningful events unfolding and now twisting. There is a lot of poorly done lore and that is irrefutable, I could of written better lore and I am a terrible author though I would like to try my hand. Cawl is a terrible character not because of his character but how he appeared as the man behind a curtain that was never there to begin with along. Gulliman's revival having nothing to do with the rumours of his wound healing despite being in stasis but instead that is ignored and we got him revived with no catchs, no strings. Primaris are clearly there to push new models however that is what a business does and I feel Primaris are not the core issue, not even an issue to begin with in fact.

 

The issue lies no doubt in the quality of presentation. If I can dig it up, I do remember writing my own version of Gulliman's revival and if I do find it I would be interested in hearing what comments people here would have on it. Would it of been preferable? Possibly as I drew upon what was, not fabrications of lazy writers who were told to include new models for sale. progression is good, only if handled well and done correctly. The injection of new characters is only poor because their introduction was poor. Not because they are bad characters, however I will hold reservations for Cawl due to the extremely shifty nature of Gulliman's orders for these primaris and the armour. I almost feel like there ether is a badly neglected elements or...Et Tu Gulliman?

 

I fundamentally disagree. The old setting wasn't a story, you're correct, it was a setting, which imo was a far better way to take it. It wasn't '1 minute to midnight', the galaxy span, and wars were fought, some won, some lost. It was no more 'stagnant' than real history, there's no need for a 3 act structure, just the next Chapter. You get your progression, story and payoff on a smaller, individual scale. As the individual stories and characters among the setting rise, fall, change etc. (for a good example, see the career of Captain Tycho) with the setting as a backdrop. Changing the fundamentals of the setting isn't necessary to have a satisfying 'progression', as long as the stories told within the setting measure up and deliver that pathos. True, over time you might find your setting evolves and 'advances' as the effect of many stories builds up, but that's a far more organic process than the 'it's now a story, not a setting, tear it down and replace' approach we've seen them introduce.

 

If it became a stagnant mess, it was because of poor handling by the later studio team, refusing or failing to build off the foundations built for them. Not because the world building had been done poorly. And we're seeing it now, despite all the 'new fluff' and plot progression. "Oh...Armageddon is under attack again? How nice." is far more reminiscent to the 'new fluff' than the old setting, where they've seemingly shrunk a galaxy of conflict and possibility into a soap opera of a handful of individuals and only a few planets.

[Marshal Rohr]

Armageddon is a good example of an old piece of lore that didn’t need a reboot. The First War was secret. No one knew about it except for the highest echelons of the Imperial Command. Even the Guard commanders didn’t know what Angrons Monolith was during the second and third wars. Only chapters with esoteric lore libraries had an inkling of what it might be. The Second War was a tough fight, but unremarkable on the timeline of Imperial History. Just another massive ork invasion illustrating why it’s so necessary to cull their empires quickly before they can grow to develop their fleet assets. The third War was a truly terrifying event. It was the front line of an actual threat to the solar system. You could build entire armies around the conflict and have the depth of detail to get lost in it. Brother Argos used to run a whole blog about it. It was beautiful and easily one of the more thoughtful modeling and lore projects ever attempted. It was something I’ve attempted to emulate for years. That single world conflict that shows the full breadth of the imperial war machine and bureaucracy.

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

 

So according to some fluff in the new Custodes codex, apparently if you don't accept the Primaris reinforcements gulliman sends to your chapter and be happy about, you are going against the emperors will and are as good as a traitor

 

There are a small sub-group of Custodes called the Emissaries Imperatus, the heralds of the emperor who 'claim' that they hear the emperors voice when they meditate and 'feel' the emperors hand guiding them. When Guilliman was telling the Custodes at large his primaris plans, they were resistant to the idea because they didn't want to strengthen the space marines further because they don't trust them due to the heresy and other betrayals. But the Emissary Custodes come forward and say nope, the emperor has told us he wants the primaris reinforcements to go to the space marines so its all ok.

 

The Emissary custodes have since being going to marine chapters to deliver news of the reinforcements, basically telling any chapter who have reservations about them that they must take them with no questions asked or they are going against the emperors will and are equivalent to traitor marines.

 

Yep so your chapter has been loyally fighting xenos and traitors for 10,000 years, but you have a few reservations about taking primaris marines so you a traitor. Ok then

 

Just when you thought the fluff behind the primaris couldn't get any worse, the studio fluff guys say hold my beer, i got this...

Not saying your lying but can I get a reference. I haven't read anything about this.

There is a picture of the page in question, from the winters seo preview, on page 48 of the Custodes new releases thread in the news and rumours section of this forum, have a look there.

 

 

 

So read it and as you said basically says "You don't accept Primaris, you are a traitor. Because noone denies a gift from the Emperor." I find this rather amusing because you have RG over there going "Cawl take out the BA/SW gene defects" Cawk:"No, they are the emperors design but I took out the worst effect" RG:"Don't care, I want it out". Wouldn't a geneseed flaw made by the emperor also be a gift from the emperor.

 

Its also pretty heavy handed. Loyalists chapter that have stayed loyal now being called traitors because they don't accept Primaris. Would be one thing if they said "Loyalist chapters quickly adopt the Primaris by the words of these Custodes alone" showing that SM have total faith in the Custodes. I mean thes guys are supposed to be very smart I am sure they can appeal to any chapters wants/needs. Primaris aren't bad units, just missing flexibility right now, and I'm sure a chapter would accept them with some negotiations.

 

Edit: It's almost like some marketing employee seeing the unhappiness in the Primaris and his job threatened, snuck into the office and put it in the custodes codex thinking "bwahaha they have to accept primaris now!" It seems just to cartoony.

[Lexington]

We now ride into act 2 of the warhammer 40k universe after many years. This is act 2 without doubt, for now we have the main battles ahead. Real meaningful events unfolding and now twisting.

So, more Lexington Tells Personal Media Consumption Stories and Relates Them To 40K Time:

 

Back when I was in college, during what now feels like the early Neolithic, we had a yearly film festival on campus and I caught this excellent Danish flick called Brødre (it later got remade as Brothers in America, starred Jake Gyllenhall, which was unnecessary in every conceivable way). Spoilers ahead, but the movie's about a Danish officer who is captured in Afghanistan during the war and kept prisoner. There's a scene mid-movie that's unforgettable, where the main character has to beat another prisoner to death with a length of pipe to save his own life, just for his captors' entertainment. It's brutal and terrible beyond belief, overshadowing the rest of the movie. I remember it pretty well to this day.

 

Right after that ended, I skidded across town to go catch the first Sin City with some friends, and, like...it's Sin City, you know? Frank Miller doesn't leave a body count under three digits. Bulllets fly, blood spills, et-cetera, et-cetera. Sin City's pretty decent, but the whole time, I couldn't help but think of how much more affecting, important and shocking that one death in Brødre was compared to that entire murder-filled runtime.

 

Context matters. Value is relative. There's a lot more to 40K than the macro-story, metaplot or whatever one wants to call it. There's meaningful change everywhere in everything, surrounded by the right circumstances.

[Firepower]

Guilliman comes up with a new order for Space Marines, and anyone who doesn't agree is a traitor...sounds vaguely familiar.

 

What makes it silly is dragging the Custodes into it, and making it all a direct order from the Emperor Himself.  It takes things from "Conflict in the Imperium" to "Nope, ya gotta, because money."

 

Bending fluff over backward and flogging it with a dead cat to sell new toys isn't anything new for GW.  It's fine.  Sometimes they do a good job, other times they just don't think things through very well (Centurions, Scouts for Black Templars, etc.).  But as many have said here, this is all just so ham fisted, over the top, desperately contrived writing that it turns what could be an interesting twist for 40k's meta plot into a god awful infomercial.

[SpecialIssue]

The universe is dynamic, yet the status quo maintained.

 

That's what 40k used to be.

 

God yes.

 

For 30 years, it was a setting, not a story. That is a strength. It means that the quality of the universe is never beholden to individual literary missteps by authors. It means that there is always huge give in any number of interpretations of how the universe will develop by fans. It ensures a shared experience through generations that can nonetheless be refreshed evermore by simply casting new focus or interpretation on parts of the universe. The literary quality comes not from cheap plot-twists expected to be accepted fait accompli by their galaxy-breaking weight alone, but from the focus on interesting character and faction interactions in the 41st millennium (which are the hallmark of good fiction, not "ZOMG this huge thing happened then this huge thing happened then this huge thing happened"). As Lexington said, meaningful, impacting change is everywhere in 40k, depending entirely on its context and set-up.

 

The realistically mind-boggingly huge scale of 40k isn’t being portrayed through the sheer diffusion of the stories being told. There was an infinite amount of fiction left in the gas-tank of 40k, from the catacombs of Terra to the frontlines of the 13th Black Crusade.

 

By focusing on a ‘metaplot’, it needlessly invites this universe to simply become a serialized comic-book superhero drama, reliant on that next ‘hit’ of increasingly bombastic ‘big events’ that inevitably lose their impact and become increasingly nonsensical and desperate. Much of the current primarch/heresy narrative is still being driven by events and plot points that have such impact only because there has been 30 years of buildup and restraint in their revealing. What next? How long till the inevitable ‘reboot’ of the universe ala another superhero comic?

 

And on the macro scale its not like the Imperium was being 'kicked in the shins'. They were putting up an almighty, titanic struggle, throwing huge military might as the largest empire in the galaxy. But there was desperation there, there were flaws and weaknesses like any other. There is no silver bullet, no hero riding on a white horse. This was the end, a vicious messy grapple amidst dirt and blood, where there is true doubt to the audience as to who the winner could be, if you even care about that sort of thing. And that is what made it appealing. I don't need the Imperium to be WINNING or 'getting something done' to feel invested in the larger struggle. W40k is certainly not that sort of cut and dried universe.

 

I hold 40k to a high standard because I felt it really (was) unique amongst the pantheon of sci-fi universes in not just themes and visuals, but its execution as a shared setting, not a rigid story.

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

 

 

So according to some fluff in the new Custodes codex, apparently if you don't accept the Primaris reinforcements gulliman sends to your chapter and be happy about, you are going against the emperors will and are as good as a traitor

 

There are a small sub-group of Custodes called the Emissaries Imperatus, the heralds of the emperor who 'claim' that they hear the emperors voice when they meditate and 'feel' the emperors hand guiding them. When Guilliman was telling the Custodes at large his primaris plans, they were resistant to the idea because they didn't want to strengthen the space marines further because they don't trust them due to the heresy and other betrayals. But the Emissary Custodes come forward and say nope, the emperor has told us he wants the primaris reinforcements to go to the space marines so its all ok.

 

The Emissary custodes have since being going to marine chapters to deliver news of the reinforcements, basically telling any chapter who have reservations about them that they must take them with no questions asked or they are going against the emperors will and are equivalent to traitor marines.

 

Yep so your chapter has been loyally fighting xenos and traitors for 10,000 years, but you have a few reservations about taking primaris marines so you a traitor. Ok then

 

Just when you thought the fluff behind the primaris couldn't get any worse, the studio fluff guys say hold my beer, i got this...

Not saying your lying but can I get a reference. I haven't read anything about this.

There is a picture of the page in question, from the winters seo preview, on page 48 of the Custodes new releases thread in the news and rumours section of this forum, have a look there.

So read it and as you said basically says "You don't accept Primaris, you are a traitor. Because noone denies a gift from the Emperor." I find this rather amusing because you have RG over there going "Cawl take out the BA/SW gene defects" Cawk:"No, they are the emperors design but I took out the worst effect" RG:"Don't care, I want it out". Wouldn't a geneseed flaw made by the emperor also be a gift from the emperor.

 

Its also pretty heavy handed. Loyalists chapter that have stayed loyal now being called traitors because they don't accept Primaris. Would be one thing if they said "Loyalist chapters quickly adopt the Primaris by the words of these Custodes alone" showing that SM have total faith in the Custodes. I mean thes guys are supposed to be very smart I am sure they can appeal to any chapters wants/needs. Primaris aren't bad units, just missing flexibility right now, and I'm sure a chapter would accept them with some negotiations.

 

Edit: It's almost like some marketing employee seeing the unhappiness in the Primaris and his job threatened, snuck into the office and put it in the custodes codex thinking "bwahaha they have to accept primaris now!" It seems just to cartoony.

Yeah, that's just dumb.

 

It removes any possibility for friction between loyal chapters without going off the deep end.

 

So apparently if we don't accept Primaris we have to switch to playing Chaos? Because according to that, we're traitors anyway.

 

Screw you, GW. Forcing things in your customers whether they want it or not is a real good way to lose them.

 

I swear if GW goes and starts having loyal Marines executed for the crime of not being Primaris, I'm getting a plane ticket to England for the sole purpose of throwing a brick through their window.

[totgeboren]

 

For 30 years, it was a setting, not a story. That is a strength. It means that the quality of the universe is never beholden to individual literary missteps by authors. 

 

This, perhaps the single greatest strength of the 40k universe was this, that the audience could always disregard any single story being told if they did not like it. Each reader had their own head-canon, and that was how it was meant to be, that everyone could have their slightly different take on the universe. It gave the setting a robustness that made it not just endure, but grow massively during its lifetime, since it had an easy way out of bad writing.

 

If someone liked the idea of braying multilasers, that was fine, and those that did not like it could just ignore it, without any issue. The way the Dark Imperium stuff is presented means it is rather difficult to get continuity with fellow gamers if you have your own headcanon, something that was not an issue before.

Before, you could say that the Spiritual liege stuff was just UM propaganda, the Deceiver being behind everything just old myths, and the Adventures of Draigo being an exaggerated legend.

You can't really do that with any of the new stuff while still playing the same game as the guy across the table from you.

[chamberlainskeksil]

In the current state of the Imperium, does it actually matter if the opinion of some custodes is that a particular chapter who is going without Primaris is traitorous?  Guilliman is too pragmatic to be like "oh, traitors, kill 'em!"  When Cawl Inferior reports a high 90% but less than 100% acceptance of Primaris, does Guilliman react with "Well, I guess we'll have to kill all those guys!"  No.  He leaves that conversation with the only concern being about Cawl himself.

[chamberlainskeksil]

 

Before, you could say that the Spiritual liege stuff was just UM propaganda, the Deceiver being behind everything just old myths, and the Adventures of Draigo being an exaggerated legend.

You can't really do that with any of the new stuff while still playing the same game as the guy across the table from you.If someone liked the idea of braying multilasers, that was fine, and those that did not like it could just ignore it, without any issue. The way the Dark Imperium stuff is presented means it is rather difficult to get continuity with fellow gamers if you have your own headcanon, something that was not an issue before.

 

 

 

Sometimes it's best to remember that canon is kind of a dumb idea anyway.  That it's okay for writers (who are just people) to not always do things we like and just let the stuff we find stupid to be just stupid parts we don't like.  The 40k equivalents of jar jar can just be the 40k equivalents of jar jar.  We don't need to go through back flips to try to justify why they aren't really part of 40k.  Things we don't like can just be things we don't like.

 

I also don't think it follows that just because I don't like a particular piece of background information that it's going to somehow be impossible to ignore on the table top.  If I was playing non-primaris and a custodes player was all "my guys are here to kill yours because your chapter master is a heretic for not accepting primaris!" I guess, but even then that seems really made up to be an example on the internet rather than a real situation.

[Dizzyeye01]

 

 

 

 

So according to some fluff in the new Custodes codex, apparently if you don't accept the Primaris reinforcements gulliman sends to your chapter and be happy about, you are going against the emperors will and are as good as a traitor

 

There are a small sub-group of Custodes called the Emissaries Imperatus, the heralds of the emperor who 'claim' that they hear the emperors voice when they meditate and 'feel' the emperors hand guiding them. When Guilliman was telling the Custodes at large his primaris plans, they were resistant to the idea because they didn't want to strengthen the space marines further because they don't trust them due to the heresy and other betrayals. But the Emissary Custodes come forward and say nope, the emperor has told us he wants the primaris reinforcements to go to the space marines so its all ok.

 

The Emissary custodes have since being going to marine chapters to deliver news of the reinforcements, basically telling any chapter who have reservations about them that they must take them with no questions asked or they are going against the emperors will and are equivalent to traitor marines.

 

Yep so your chapter has been loyally fighting xenos and traitors for 10,000 years, but you have a few reservations about taking primaris marines so you a traitor. Ok then

 

Just when you thought the fluff behind the primaris couldn't get any worse, the studio fluff guys say hold my beer, i got this...

Not saying your lying but can I get a reference. I haven't read anything about this.

There is a picture of the page in question, from the winters seo preview, on page 48 of the Custodes new releases thread in the news and rumours section of this forum, have a look there.

So read it and as you said basically says "You don't accept Primaris, you are a traitor. Because noone denies a gift from the Emperor." I find this rather amusing because you have RG over there going "Cawl take out the BA/SW gene defects" Cawk:"No, they are the emperors design but I took out the worst effect" RG:"Don't care, I want it out". Wouldn't a geneseed flaw made by the emperor also be a gift from the emperor.

 

Its also pretty heavy handed. Loyalists chapter that have stayed loyal now being called traitors because they don't accept Primaris. Would be one thing if they said "Loyalist chapters quickly adopt the Primaris by the words of these Custodes alone" showing that SM have total faith in the Custodes. I mean thes guys are supposed to be very smart I am sure they can appeal to any chapters wants/needs. Primaris aren't bad units, just missing flexibility right now, and I'm sure a chapter would accept them with some negotiations.

 

Edit: It's almost like some marketing employee seeing the unhappiness in the Primaris and his job threatened, snuck into the office and put it in the custodes codex thinking "bwahaha they have to accept primaris now!" It seems just to cartoony.

Yeah, that's just dumb.

 

It removes any possibility for friction between loyal chapters without going off the deep end.

 

So apparently if we don't accept Primaris we have to switch to playing Chaos? Because according to that, we're traitors anyway.

 

Screw you, GW. Forcing things in your customers whether they want it or not is a real good way to lose them.

 

I swear if GW goes and starts having loyal Marines executed for the crime of not being Primaris, I'm getting a plane ticket to England for the sole purpose of throwing a brick through their window.

 

 

There's accepting Primaris marines and then there's "accepting". Think of it like this: say there is a group of school kids who are playing games during a break from a lesson for lunc or whatever and then they get told by a teacher that they have to include this other kid who everyone is not a fan of. To stay out of trouble they nod their heads and say okay but once the teacher goes away they have the most minimal amount of contact possible. Only instead of it being a group of school kids it's a chapter, the new kid is the Primaris nd the teacher is the Custodes.

 

I may of not explained that the best but in short the chapter could take in the Primaris but then send them all away on a mission far away and kept them at arms distance so they are only in the chapter in name. Vazzy did the same idea with his chapter the Shattered Suns where all the Primaris got put into a company then sent on their own mission. Besides, if you just don't want to include Primaris in your force at all then you could say that they are somewhere in the Dark Imperium which is the wildlands of the galaxy now though that isn't to say there are unknown areas in the 'Light' Imperium.

[totgeboren]

 

Sometimes it's best to remember that canon is kind of a dumb idea anyway.  That it's okay for writers (who are just people) to not always do things we like and just let the stuff we find stupid to be just stupid parts we don't like.  The 40k equivalents of jar jar can just be the 40k equivalents of jar jar.  We don't need to go through back flips to try to justify why they aren't really part of 40k.  Things we don't like can just be things we don't like.

 

 

Of course, and it is after all just a game.

But we play games because we find them fun, and many find that the background of the game plays a huge part in how fun they are to play. Especially having a shared story with friends (the entire concept behind p&p role playing games) can be really fun. Bad official canon increases the need for headcanon, which reduces the possibility of shared stories, which in turn reduces the fun had.

But yeah, this isn't perhaps a huge problem all things considered. 

[Robbienw]

I'm hoping at least its mentioned in future that the Emissarus Custodes are left feeling a bit...uneasy after the first inevitable instance of Primaris marines turning to chaos occurs, to make up for this terrible fluff.

[chapter master 454]

I'm hoping at least its mentioned in future that the Emissarus Custodes are left feeling a bit...uneasy after the first inevitable instance of Primaris marines turning to chaos occurs, to make up for this terrible fluff.

 

You mean make those brand new ultra super mega marines that they are releasing soon look fallible and actually interesting? Aren't we hopeful!

 

To be honest, I think what we need to wait for is the next "Edition" of lore (not so much rules) to come around where GW aren't running around trying to crowbar in as much products as possible to get 8th edition running (do remember, they are quite aggressively pushing codex after codex). Maybe once that settles they may go around their writers, see they writ drivel and give them a prompt slap around the back of the head and tell them to actually put some effort into the lore and make it decent. Might even take some community feedback for that as well in fact.

[Ishagu]

I hope there are no issues at all with Primaris.

 

I don't want a repeat of past events.

[Mileposter]

Wait, wasn't "I hope there's some ultimatum that the Chapters are required to receive the Primaris to explain why so many of them have accepted these nuMarines" one of the big clamors I read early on from some of these same folks?

 

Didn't that exact thing just happen, then?

[Marshal Rohr]

One of the big clamors from early on was for Primaris-Ing to be an addition procedure.

[Xwingt65]

I hope there are no issues at all with Primaris.

I don't want a repeat of past events.

Agree. If GW feel the need to make primaris sized chaos marines, I would rather have it be as a result of Fabiuos Biles experiments.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

I hope there are no issues at all with Primaris.

I don't want a repeat of past events.

Agree. If GW feel the need to make primaris sized chaos marines, I would rather have it be as a result of Fabiuos Biles experiments.

Making Fabius anything more than a Chaos warlord is universe shrinking. He’s not important enough to become the Cawl of Chaos, because Cawl should not be the Cawl of the Imperium. There is depth in obscurity.

[Robbienw]

I don't think its realistic to think there wont be issues with Primaris going forward, in regards to falling to chaos.  Primaris are still just space marines, they just have 3 new organs that make them bigger and stronger.  They don't have anymore special resistance to chaos beyond what space marines normally have.

 

Total or virtually total immunity to falling to chaos is the preserve of only a few tiny numbers of specialists in the Imperium, the Custodes and the Grey Knights.  For me it should stay that way.  Primaris are a part of mainline fighting force and there are many of them out there now, they aren't on the same levels as custodes or grey knights.

 

I doubt it will happen now, as Primaris marines are the new hotness and GW wants them to look special so people will be compelled to buy them.  But give it a few years when they have made a the bulk of sales on them as the new thing, and they are bedded in properly in the fluff, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see the appreance of Primaris chaos renegades is the CSM codex.

[Gentlemanloser]

Totally agree about the Custodes and GK should be the only Warp Immune (and I'm not even 100% sold that the Custodes should be.  They aren't Psykers and can't protect themselves that way, and aren't Pariah's either.  There's nothing 'special' about them that should give them immunity to the warp.  I guess we hand wave that to the Emperors secret creation of them.  But then why didn't he impart normal Marines with such protection?).

 

But do we have any current Marine chapters falling Renegade?  Apart from those that deny Bobby's wishes of course! :P

 

Individual Marines, sure.  But have any entire current Chapters gone over to the dark side?

 

Perhaps this could be a way for GW to make the DI relevant.  An all Primaris chapter trapped on the dark side of the rift goes dark.  Next time they're encountered they have gone Renegade / fallen to Chaos.

 

Give the DI some teeth, and give the Primaris some flaws at the same time.

[SickSix]

I am basically going to ignore all lore after G-man goes to terra.

 

It's all I can do. The implementation of Primaris was so awful and a mistake to begin with. They should have just said they wanted to bring Marine models into proper scale with everyrhing else and released the new models as regular marines.

 

I find myself much more interested in 30k and non marine armies now. Like I really want to finish putting my little IG force together now. And paint some bugs.

 

I have never big a player but the new direction has me almost wanting to give up table top completley and become strictly a collector.

 

I am still interested in 40k/30k but NOT becuase of the new direction with imperial factions. And as more locals adopt primaris it will necome harder and harder to ignore. Pushing me farther from actual gaming.