CrystalSeer Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 So after much finagling, I've got two versions that look like fun. Option 1- Bloodcrushers: Battalion (World Eaters) Models Equipment Kharne the Betrayer 1 Gorechild, Plasma Pistol Exalted Champion 1 Power Axe Khorne Berserkers 8 Chainaxe and Chainsword, Rhino Khorne Berserkers 8 Chainaxe and Chainsword, Rhino Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapon Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapon Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapon Battalion (Daemons) Models Equipment Daemon Prince 1 Skullreaver, Wings Skullmaster 1 Hellblade Bloodcrushers 8 Hellblades, Banner of Blood and Icon Bloodletters 20 Hellblades, Instrument and Icon Bloodletters 20 Hellblades, Instrument and Icon Bloodletters 20 Hellblades, Instrument and Icon This leaves me with 9 CP and a ton of CC goodness. The main play for this list is soaking overwatch with the crushers and eating their bubble wrap alive with 48 attacks at high strength. The banner allows for a 3D6 charge, which is made re-rollable by a nearby Locus. Depending on how I deploy, they could also fight twice. This opens up the path for 60 bloodletters to attack value targets, the World eaters coming in as backup. Cultists camp objectives in the back and characters are all basically for fun. Option 2, is the bloodthirster circus: Battalion (World Eaters) Models Equipment Kharne the Betrayer 1 Gorechild, Plasma Pistol Exalted Champion 1 Power Axe Khorne Berserkers 8 Chainaxe and Chainsword, Rhino Khorne Berserkers 8 Chainaxe and Chainsword, Rhino Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapon Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapon Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapon Battalion (Daemons) Models Equipment Skarbrand 1 Slaughter and Carnage Bloodthirster oIR 1 Great Axe of Khorne, Armor of Skorn Bloodletters 20 Hellblades, Instrument and Icon Bloodletters 20 Hellblades, Instrument and Icon Bloodletters 20 Hellblades, Instrument and Icon The idea behind this one is BLOOOOOOOD FOOOOOR THEEE BLOOOOOOOOD GOOOOOD! ahem.... Also 9 CP. Same basic concept except you loose the crushers and eat overwatch in order to bring the big guys. Harder on CP but has a definite potential to hit target overload. Still drops 60 bloodletters. I tried to make Brigade work, but you lose too much power making it fit. Although possible, the trade wasn't worth it Comments, criticism, suggestions, ranting and raving all welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Cool lists but do you really feel like footslogging with Berserkers? That aspect of the army has the halmarks of Alpha Legion but isn't, well, AL ;) Other than that the Daemons look good, as you know I think going to 80 Bloodletters means even more power but from a hobby perspective I understand the cap at 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Berserkers get rhinos. And if 60 bloodletters can't do it, will another unit really make the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Berserkers get rhinos. And if 60 bloodletters can't do it, will another unit really make the difference? Lol, somehow missed the rhinos. Have to say, I rarely see army lists displayed in the way you posted it :P I would say so that here more Bloodletters make the difference. Being able to thake out 4 key units on the fly is just always better as doing it with 3. In addition, the second wave is 'just' two Berzerker units. While Cultists certainly are cool also you can't really account them for a great task other than sitting there for Objective purposes... A thing that has become a bit of a mantra for me now is: - Applying two Daemon Princes (on foot, deep striked) - 80 Bloodletters (4 units) and follow up with potentially: - Khârn + 24 Berzerkers (3 units) should generally cause more havoc upon pretty much everything. Now I do like the idea of Bloodcrushers and Skarbrand and Skulltaker but pound for pound there is very little that can compete with the pure efficiency, hitting power and durability of 20 Bloodletters with Icon and Banner (of Blood) for just 165 points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I agree. For the moment, I have 60, so I'll run that. If it becomes an issue I'll get more. I rather doubt it though since there's no tournament meta here. I do like the idea of putting more berserkers down, but at this point I'd have to give up on the bloodcrushers or the rhinos. The bloodcrushers seem incredibly good for soaking overwatch and pushing out a ton of high strength attacks; they are buy best defense against mass infantry/bubble wrap lists. And giving up rhinos slows down my berserkers drastically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Played my debut game with these guys today, using a modified version of the first list. Basically dropped the prince to Skulltaker and dropped a few bloodletters to get my third squad of berserkers back in. Played against Eldar. He brought: Eldrad Spirit Seer 3x10 Dire Avengers 3x3 Jetbikes 2x5 CC Wraithguard in Wave Serpents 2x Hemloch Wraith Fighter We're playing a campaign, so the first mission ended up being 'Ambush' from narrative. He basically played it so that he got the guaranteed first turn, which put me on the back foot starting off. His list looked pretty killy, so I didn't like my odds. I reserved my Daemons in the warp, and spent the remainder of my CP on the Banner of Blood strategem. My cultists deployed to bubble wrap my berserkers in rhinos. His turn one was pretty decent, but nerfed by a -1 to hit from the mission rules. He outflanked with 10 avengers, using the campaign rules, helping him to kill a rhino and several cultists. More Blood! My turn 1 was spent mostly by carefully measuring out 9" from all of his units for my deep strikes. Reality tore open, weeping blood, as 55 blood letters and 8 Bloodcrushers charged on to the field. Through a combination of banners, instruments, re-rolls from loci, and just generally decent rolls, all of my units were able to make it in to close combat. In a single glorious assault, I was able to take out all of his dire avengers, two units of bikes, and one wave serpent. Skulltaker charged Eldrad, but failed to take his skull. 3++ is a hard nut to crack. The remaining berserkers stayed in their rhinos as the squad in the open helped tear apart the wave serpent. His turn two saw a counter assault, with his wraithguard charging my bloodcrushers and berserkers. They roll outstandingly well, managing to take out 4 of the crushers. The wraithfighters take out one rhino, while his remaining bikes concentrate fire on the 15 man unit of bloodletters. Through a combination of Guide, Doom, and Str 6 guns, they manage to knock out 11 of them. This Morale phase is not nice to me, as I roll sixes for both the crushers and bloodletters. Now that the Wraithguard are on the field, the remaining berserkers disembark from the last living rhino, and it turns in to a full on bloodbath. Bloodletters, Berserkers, Kharne, and the Exalted Champion all charge in, taking out the wraithguard. After that, it basically became a bloody slog. The Eldar frantically tried to fight back the tide, but were overwhelmed by sheer numbers. The last fight was 8 bloodletters charging Eldrad, and laying him low, resulting in a tabled result. Key After Actions: - Not being able to attack fliers hurt, but not as much as I was worried about - Banner of Blood is worth every CP - This army is a blast to play. The mission was supposed to be for me to escape the table, but I chose to assault instead. Khorne would not look favorably upon those who fled from battle! It feels like my KDK used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Key After Actions: - Not being able to attack fliers hurt, but not as much as I was worried about - Banner of Blood is worth every CP - This army is a blast to play. The mission was supposed to be for me to escape the table, but I chose to assault instead. Khorne would not look favorably upon those who fled from battle! It feels like my KDK used to. Can only agree with all three. Flyers hurt if you for example would stop at using 2 units of Bloodletters and a whole lot more Berzerkers for example, their cost works well in large numbers and large numbers do care about flyers but not so much if you continue to thake multiples of 20. I believe Orks can have more issues with flyers but that's usually (I believe) because they thake 3 blobs of 30 and logically leave it at that because 90 orks is a lot allready to paint. Banner of Blood in my opinion is what makes us KDK/Mixed Khorne lists competitive now and that is usually a blast to play if your opponent aims to bring such a list also! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The only things I really consider a shortfall with this list, is a lack anything to quickly tackle big targets (vehicles / wraithboys) and zero effect against flyers. A wraithfighter is pretty tame compared to a stormraven, so moving forward it is something I will likely need to address. I was also less impressed by skulltaker than I thought I would be. It was not possible to keep my bloodletters in one place and still take out his infantry, which meant the +1 to hit only ever applied to one unit, who got it for one assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The only things I really consider a shortfall with this list, is a lack anything to quickly tackle big targets (vehicles / wraithboys) and zero effect against flyers. A wraithfighter is pretty tame compared to a stormraven, so moving forward it is something I will likely need to address. I was also less impressed by skulltaker than I thought I would be. It was not possible to keep my bloodletters in one place and still take out his infantry, which meant the +1 to hit only ever applied to one unit, who got it for one assault. Well this is also why I find using more and more Bloodletters / Berzerkers to be a good choice. While it doesnt directly solve the issue what it does do is present more board control for Objective based reasons which in the end gives us an edge for attrition and basically allows us to sit down also. In general I think that I'm not massively unimpressed by any of the named Characters but I do think that for their cost there is very little that can't be done with a Daemon Prince with Skullreaver and a Daemon Prince with A'grath. So I went and started converting ;) http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tgacommunity/monthly_2018_02/IMG-20180212-WA0004.jpeg.dbf0a73a028403bce57252fd9ee9d5d3.jpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagentus Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 looking good Commissar! interested to see how he turns out. @Crystalseer - Great battle report, amazing to see how much devistation the KDK does. Especially against eldar. I defo think we have a dissadvantage against flyers, but would winged DPs solves that? or maybe a ML havoc squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Cheers mate! I think there are many ways to cover Flyer issues, fun fact is that Skarbrand is also one of those potential awnsers. While he indeed doesn't stick everything into melee combat with him all the time making a 3D6 Ld check on Ld 8 or 9 is still hard to pass! I believe that the average outcome of 3D6 is 10.5 after all, meaning quite some will stick with him.One of the biggest pros of Skarbrand next to this is offcourse his own output, the buff and the biggest aspect is him not being required to flootslog into combat. Only thing for me remains is to get him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagentus Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Hmm ... does that kind of make skarbrand worth his points then is he is one of our best answers to flyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I'm missing something here. Skarbrand can make people unable to leave combat, but he can't fly, so he can't charge fliers. That means the idea is Skarbrand + daemon prince with wings? That's one heck of an investment. Though I must say, it's awesome that his attacks go up as he degrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Skarbrand + Furies could work. It's one of the few uses for Furies I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 A flyer that has a minimum movement distance and can’t fall back automatically dies, or am I inventing that rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 A flyer that has a minimum movement distance and can’t fall back automatically dies, or am I inventing that rule? Nope, that's a rule. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying that 540 pts of models to take out less than 180 may not be the best plan. Now, if you're just considering it an added bonus, that could work. He's a great character anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Doesn't alter the fact that Skarbrand can't FLY. How do you even engage a Flyer in melee when you can't fly? If you can't engage a Flyer, you can't stop it moving and crash it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Doesn't alter the fact that Skarbrand can't FLY. How do you even engage a Flyer in melee when you can't fly? If you can't engage a Flyer, you can't stop it moving and crash it. It's an aura, so he doesn't have to engage the unit himself. You get some other unit with FLY to charge the flyer and keep ol' Skarbrand nearby to stop the enemy from falling back. That's why I suggested Furies, since they're fairly cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I'm missing something here. Skarbrand can make people unable to leave combat, but he can't fly, so he can't charge fliers. That means the idea is Skarbrand + daemon prince with wings? That's one heck of an investment. Though I must say, it's awesome that his attacks go up as he degrades. Well there is offcourse a difference between the Airborne rule and just Flyers. But I don't think Skarbrand + Daemon Prince with Wings is a bad investment at all. The thing is really that they both are good choices regardless of your opponent thaking Airborne Flyers or not... What I think is that Furies are a good option, Helldrakes for these types of Khorne lists certainly have an additional value and in general as discussed before I do believe that Skarbrand is a worthy choice because of all the additional bonusses he gives. In the end though, just bringing more Bloodletters remains a very potent tool also. It's cool that your opponent has Airborne models but if all the other choices are removed or all the Objectives are covered your still ahead in the game, most of the time. One of the best things for Skarbrand though is indeed that engagement isn't perse required. Though ideally is there offcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I'm building my lists to maximize CP, as deep striking + banner of blood is what makes them work. With that, I can realistically afford Skarbrand or prince, but not both. Using a min of 8 CP before the first turn does limit your options a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I'm building my lists to maximize CP, as deep striking + banner of blood is what makes them work. With that, I can realistically afford Skarbrand or prince, but not both. Using a min of 8 CP before the first turn does limit your options a bit. Sure, pick which one of the two you want. Though having said that it's not that hard to include both. Obviously the Daemon Prince with Wings doesn't need to be deep striked all the time, likewise armies who use a lot of Airborne models are armies where less Blood Banners are needed. If you want to discuss the list, feel free to share it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The latest iteration I'm looking at is something like this: Battalion Detachment (Daemons) Number Upgrades Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage 1 Great Axe of Khorne, (Armor of Skorne) Bloodmaster 1 Blade of Blood Bloodletters 20 Hellblade, Icon and Instrument Bloodletters 20 Hellblade, Icon and Instrument Bloodletters 15 Hellblade, Icon and Instrument Battalion Detachment (World Eaters) Number Upgrades Kharne the Betrayer 1 Gorechild, Plasma Pistol Exalted Champion 1 Power Axe (Axe of Blind Fury) Khorne Berzerkers 8 Chainaxe and Chainsword, Icon of Wrath, Rhino Khorne Berzerkers 8 Chainaxe and Chainsword, Icon of Wrath, Rhino Khorne Berzerkers 8 Chainaxe and Chainsword, Icon of Wrath, Rhino Battalion Detachment (World Eaters) Number Upgrades Dark Apostle 1 Power Maul Dark Apostle 1 Power Maul Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapons Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapons Chaos Cultists 10 Brutal Assault Weapons Comes in at 2002 points with 12 CP, while still letting me take a bloodthirster. Stronger variant is likely swapping out the thirster for some crushers, but I want to see how the big guy does first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat_Punter Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Nice list, been trying to take a thirster in my last few games. Its tough to use I have to say. Couple of points; 1. Can only take relics from the codex from which your warlord is taken. Thus either AOBF or Armour of Skhorne. 2. That being said, Oblivious to pain + Armour of Skhorne on the thirster is solid. Then take a DPrince with the Skullreaver axe. Makes the DP out damage even the Insensate Ragethirster. The DP is hidden from all but snipers too. Just me tuppence! O7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 The latest iteration I'm looking at is something like this: Bloodletters 15 Hellblade, Icon and Instrument Comes in at 2002 points with 12 CP, while still letting me take a bloodthirster. Stronger variant is likely swapping out the thirster for some crushers, but I want to see how the big guy does first. Other than it being 2002 points I wondered if the highlighted unit is possible to run this way... I think it is? It's one Instrument/Icon for every 10 but as they are different bullet points I assume you can add both the moment you run 10 or more? Otherwise the list looks really good. Would still give the Cultists the autoguns because otherwise I think you would still be better of by adding more Bloodletters. Ultimately you would then create a 2K list that's not 2 points over. In addition I feel that unless that CP is available to deep strike more Bloodletters I also don't feel it adds all too much. To me the key CP inclusion reason remains Denizens of the Warp and Blood Banner. Lastly, I think double Daemon Princes are almost always better as one Bloodthirster. Especially if you want to go for this design and thus have extra CP to have one Daemon Prince with the Bloodreaver and the other with A'grath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1. Can only take relics from the codex from which your warlord is taken. Thus either AOBF or Armour of Skhorne. You can use both with the relic stratagem. It allows you to take one additional relic, and 1 is additional to 0 ;) That said, IMHO the axe is a waste of a CP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.