Orange Blood Angels with Vallejo

[Firepower]

So tinkering about with the idea of starting some Blood Angels (or at least painting some).  As a Venerable (old fart) 40k fella, I have a penchant for the old orange Blood Angels.  

 

I've taken to using Vallejo for just about everything, particularly airbrushing.  The trouble is I have no retailers of Vallejo nearby, so I have to order online.  Since color swatches can't be relied on with a computer monitor, I can't really be sure which paints to pick out.

 

So, any guides out there for Orange Angels using Vallejo paints, or known recipes to share?  Bonus points for pictures

Edited January 17, 2018 by Major_Gilbear
Topic tags added.

[deathspectersgt7]

Vallejo Hot Orange.

[Firepower]

Alright, what colors to shade, highlight, washes, lining, and the like? I assume Hot Orange is to be the primary color?  

Edited January 16, 2018 by Firepower

[Arkhanist]

If I was to do my blood angels in a 3rd edition scheme with what I've got, I'd use a base of army painter 'pure red' - they're brush paints, but pigment dense and thin down nicely for airbrushing.

 

Not my site, but here's what pure red looks like (on the right) and after basic washes (on the left)

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2DVBaw4ZuUs/T28UMD3HdgI/AAAAAAAABBw/0z5V-YD-oVA/s1600/DSC00695.JPG

 

Model colour 70.909 vermilion looks a good match, or game color 72.010 bloody red is also close. My pot of that has gone a bit iffy though, and I'm not a fan of the game colours (model colour and model air are very nice, of course). Of the vallejo model air reds I've got, 71.003 scarlet red is closest, but is a touch more towards the orange. 71.086 light red is definitely into dark orange territory - either of those might suit as a zenithal highlight if you really want to push the orange angle. Depends how much edge highlighting you want to do, and how far you want to push up the contrast.

 

If you wanted to start from a darker undercoat, something like 71.084 fire red is a nice brownish red, or german red brown primer is solid. Or there's the classic 71.040 burnt umber if you want higher contrast and deep shadow, but you might need to pre-highlight with a yellow or white to get that vibrancy of the main red back.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Arkhanist

[Firepower]

Seems fairly quick and simple.  But the shade I'm going for is more along these lines:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2BB9ugYY20w/UjAOxAFjW8I/AAAAAAAADto/tZV4MROGhew/s1600/wd+blood+angels+terminator+squat.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Aza1mskFBlY/VRs6klP6yYI/AAAAAAAAHjk/KerQ2HOx8sM/s1600/SAM_4373.JPG

 

Yes, they used to be genuinely orange.  I'm old :lol:

 

Well, not full on neon orange obviously, but definitively orange more than they were red.  Sorta red-orange?

[Arkhanist]

Hopefully barjed will let you into the secret of how he's doing his primaris, was about to suggest you ask when I saw you already had!

[Firepower]

Hopefully barjed will let you into the secret of how he's doing his primaris, was about to suggest you ask when I saw you already had!

 

Hopefully I won't have to sacrifice too many virgins or chickens to beseech this latest God of Orange.  Chickens are expensive.

[Major_Gilbear]

I used to paint Blood Angels back then, and there was a recipe for the studio scheme in UK WD 139. Keep in mind that this was produced in 1991, and so was right at the end of Rogue Trader.

 

There was a later guide to the 2E era Blood Angels paint scheme in WD, but this was more to showcase the 2E paints - the colour scheme was still a dead match for the RT era stuff. Furthermore, many of the old late RT-era models remained in the studio army all the way up to 3E (like the Rhino and classic plastic Predator).

 

There was also a Blood Angels paint set produced in about 1995, which contained most of the essential colours for the "official" scheme.

 

From memory, the red build up was something along these lines:

 

> White undercoat. Two thin sprayed coats applied with a good drying period in between.

 

> Two thinned even coats of Blood Red to get good coverage

 

> Blood Angels Red was applied as a pretty broad highlight. I guess you could blend this over several layers if you want a smoother finish.

 

> Fiery Orange was then mixed into the Blood Angels Red for a first edge highlight.

 

> Fiery Orange was then used on its own for a second broad highlight.

 

> The model was then glazed with a little thinned Red Wash (actually just red ink) to shade it, to smooth the transitions, and to bring back a more intense red. Depending on much you thin, and how/where you apply the ink, you may need more than one coat.

 

> The eye lenses were done in Snot Green over a Chaos Black undercoat, with Sunburst Yellow added for the first highlights, and white added for the second highlight.

 

> Armour joints were Chaos Black, then Boltgun Metal, shaded with Armour Wash, and highlighted with Chainmail Silver.

 

For tabletop quality rank-and-file, you can stop here.

 

> For heroes or a higher-level paintjob, you can go back and add more and finer highlights with the Fiery Orange, adding a little Golden Yellow, and then some Bronzed Flesh/Bleached Bone for the final sharpest highlights.

 

Now, these paints are all long out of stock, but you do have some options:

 

 - Coat D'Arms made their paint range by contacting HMG Paints and matching their colours  to Citadel's, even going so far as keeping the same names wherever they could. Their range is an amalgam of the first edition (round pot white flip lid) and second edition (hex pot with white flip lid) Citadel paint ranges, tending more towards the second edition colour palette.

 

- Privateer Press Paints (AKA "P3"). These are a superior and modern range of paints commissioned by Mike McVey for Privateer, and are also made by HMG Paints (as Mike was involved in the old Citadel ranges, and knew what he wanted). A lot of the P3 paints are therefore direct matches to a lot of the second edition Citadel paints.

 

- Vallejo Game Colour was produced towards the end of the second edition Citadel paints era, and for a while also incorporated colour analogous to those from the third edition ("bolter shell" hex pots with screw-top black lids). The colour matches are pretty decent on the whole, but they are superior paints with generally better coverage and intensity. They are not a good enough match to touch up old Citadel-painted models, but they are good enough that you can paint a new squad to match your older squads quite well.

 

- You can try getting the original paints from eBay, garage/car boot sales, etc. Not as hard as it sounds, but some less common colours like Blood Angel Red may prove tricky.

 

Based on this, I'll try and give you some colour suggestions for Vallejo Game Colour and P3:

 

Vallejo Game Colour

• Blood Red = 72.010 Bloody Red
• Blood Angels Red = 72.009 Hot Orange
• Fiery Orange = 72.008 Orange Fire
• Golden Yellow = 72.007 Gold Yellow
• Bleached Bone = 72.034 Bonewhite
• Red Wash = 72.086 Red Ink
• Chaos Black = 72.051 Black
• Snot Green = 72.029 Sick Green
• Sunburst Yellow = 72.006 Sun Yellow
• Skull White = 72.001 Dead White
• Boltgun Metal = 72.054 Gunmetal
• Chainmail Silver = 72.053 Chainmal Silver
• Armour Wash = 72.094 Black Ink (You could also use Citadel Nuln Oil or the previous Badab Black. Alternatively, Army Painter Dark Tone).

 

P3 Paints

• Blood Red = P3 021 - Khador Red Base
• Blood Angels Red = None, but a 1:1 mix of Khador Red Base and Khador Red Highlight is extremely close
• Fiery Orange = P3 022 Khador Red Highlight
• Golden Yellow = P3 024 Heartfire (P3 023 Ember Orange is another very close match)
• Bleached Bone = P3 065 Menoth White Base (this is a little darker than Bleached Bone, and P3 066 Menoth White Highlight is a little lighter)
• Red Wash = P3 013 - Red Ink
• Chaos Black = P3 072 Thamar Black
• Snot Green = P3 034 Gnarls Green
• Sunburst Yellow = P3 025 Cygnus Yellow
• Skull White = P3 073 Morrow White
• Boltgun Metal = P3 074 Pig Iron
• Chainmail Silver = P3 075 Cold Steel
• Armour Wash = P3 012 - Armor Wash

 

Hope that helps you!

Edited January 18, 2018 by Major_Gilbear
Updated paint name

[Magos Takatus]

I'm not sure if it's my memory at fault here but I thought the Blood Angel paint set contained Fiery Orange rather than Blazing Orange? I think Blazing Orange is a much more vibrant orange compared to Fiery Orange?

 

Here's the image in spoiler tags since the pic I found is massive.

 

http://collector-info.com/Manufacturer/GAW/GAWPAT/GAWPATPAI/IMG/GAWPAT%2083314%20T2B%20-%20Blazing%20Orange%20%5BPot%5D%201.jpg

 

Here is somebody's picture of Fiery Orange.

 

 

I got a pot of Fiery Orange from the paint set, I never owned Blazing Orange. I hope this helps to source paint more easily.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Flame Boy

[Firepower]

Ahh, those old pots.  Memories...

 

I also remember what a damn mess I would make as a kid with the red ink

 

Some very thorough advice here.  Thank you much

 

Knowing the colors to work with, I may be able to adapt them to modern airbrush techniques.  Should be interesting.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Firepower

[Ovidius Incertus]

You've got a lot to work with here, but I sallied over to my paint rack which is filled with an absurd amount of Vallejo reds and came up with this:

 

Personally, I'd prime with a middle gray color, but if you want real pop, then white.

 

Then I'd go Bloody Red (VGC) and highlight with Hot Orange (Game Air), and if you want to take it one step further, either Orange Fire (Game Air) or Orange Rust (VMA).

 

In my own experience, Hot Orange and Orange fire are so transparent that it's hard to see them layered on top of one another without laying it on really, really thick, hence my suggestion of doing a final highlight with Orange Rust.

 

As a base, Light Red (VMA) is a bit more toward the orange than Bloody Red.  If you want a deeper, darker red, a base of Scarlet Red (VMA) or, deeper still, Ferrari Red (VMA) would be my go-to.  I think they're a bit more saturated.  I wouldn't go any darker than those reds, based on your intended scheme.

[Firepower]

Actually for priming I was thinking of something along the lines of what Luther does: https://www.themightybrush.com/how-to-paint-blood-angels-part-i/

 

In my experience Vallejo primers are awful (for durability, they don't bite into the model like proper primer), so I'd probably prime GW white, spray on a thin coat of a neutral reddish brown, and do the zenithal highlights and shadows pre-painting.  They actually have the same color as that primer as a regular paint, but I'm not sure it would work just as well for a brighter red-orange top coat.  I dunno if I'll need to use a brighter yellow either, but I wager it should work as well with a red-orange top coat.

 

Washes/lining/shading after the fact is going to be an interesting problem.  I'e never been able to do a full-model wash that din't look like an obvious wash, rather than natural color, and hardlining with a wash has always had varied results thanks to poor control of the liquid.  I think mixing in Lahmian would help with that...

 

There's going to be a lot of experimentation to do.  But first comes knowing what palette to work with, and this has been a big help in that regard

Edited January 18, 2018 by Firepower

[Major_Gilbear]

I'm not sure if it's my memory at fault here but I thought the Blood Angel paint set contained Fiery Orange rather than Blazing Orange? I think Blazing Orange is a much more vibrant orange compared to Fiery Orange?

 

You know, this got me thinking, so I checked my old paints last night. You're absolutely correct that it's Fiery Orange, so I've edited my post above to reflect this.

 

I also discovered the remains of my Blood Angels Red (I was surprised I had any left!) and it is definitely on the orange side of the red-orange spectrum. I reckon that a 1:1 mix of a plain solid red and a decent mid-range orange will get you a very close colour to BAR.

 

Finally, I also checked out WD 139. The colours used were the first edition ones, where Go Fasta Red was mixed about 1:1 with Blood Angels Orange for the base coat. Then Blood Angels Orange was used as a highlight before adding in some orange and then yellow. Red ink was used at the end to glaze things down. So, notwithstanding the second edition paint name changes, it looks like the recipe I outlined above was remembered correctly!

[Firepower]

It's been roughly decades since I tried using inks, but from I recall it shined everything up, not dulled everything down.  But then I was a wee lil nosepicker with no real paint skillz, so my memories are even less reliable than the norm :teehee:

 

My experience was always that WD guides were sorta ballpark guides, and it seemed like the actual painters did a lot of stuff they didn't bother to outline.

[Magos Takatus]

Ah, Blood Angel Orange was too early for me, I never saw the pots they came in in GW stores. They were tall, round pots unlike the 2nd edition hex pots, weren't they? All this talk makes me extremely happy that GW have decided to keep their whole paint range stable for a while and have even added extra paints to the range over time. The only Vallejo paints I own are the rust set that they do but they seem pretty nice. I'd like to experiment with more dropper bottle paints now that I've finally started using my airbrush.

 

I have some of the old GW washes and inks myself. I don't really use them anymore since they don't cover with the nice gradient like the current shades do. I suppose they are better for recess shades, pinwashing and so on. I need to find a good use for them I suppose.

 

I totally agree with you Firepower, even the painting guides today seem inaccurate. One of the models I finished painting recently was the large Archaon model and the colour the box art recommended for the wings was waaay off, and the guide from Warhammer TV is always a different method to the box painting scheme. I just had to wing it in the end. :p

[Major_Gilbear]

You're correct on both counts Firepower! :P

 

When I was older (and, er, wiser), I discovered that inks can differ quote a bit too. Generally, the inks are either a shellac type, or acrylic.

 

The shellac inks are lovely, and generally better to work with, more intense, etc, but they do reactivate (and bleed) when you paint over them with certain colours or varnish.

 

The acrylic inks are more colour-fast and resistant to fading, but they are more prone to leaving tide marks when they dry, and are often not as clear as the others. I have found that if you let these settle, and then pour off the top (chucking the sediment away), you get very nice translucent inks that don't fade or reactivate. However, they are not as intense (especially after you settle out the solids), and you may therefore need a couple of layers to get a richer tint. Personally, I prefer this, as I always watered down my inks anyway.

 

In both cases, you can either add a little matte medium to the inks to help kill the shine, or simply matte-varnish afterwards.

 

With respect to the old painting guides, they were quicker and more vague. They always assumed that many painters either knew the basics already, or would be willing to experiment a bit to get a result they liked. Nowadays, everything is much more prescribed and explained in a more exacting way. Whilst I prefer the latter style (because that's what I want from a guide in the first place), I've noticed the same differences over the years in cooking recipes and other instructions too! ;)

 

 

Ah, Blood Angel Orange was too early for me, I never saw the pots they came in in GW stores. They were tall, round pots unlike the 2nd edition hex pots, weren't they?

 

Same size as the hex-pots that followed, but round. They may have been a smidge narrower and taller overall, but they were otherwise just like the current P3/Foundry/Coat D'Arms paint pots now.

 

 

All this talk makes me extremely happy that GW have decided to keep their whole paint range stable for a while and have even added extra paints to the range over time.

 

I don't believe GW ever released a range of paints with the express intention of regularly changing them. Rather, as they suppliers they used changed, as paint technology (and associated costs) evolved, and as the need for specific colours came about, the ranges were adapted and eventually superceded over time.

 

This latest (fifth) edition of paints was intended to get away from the hated "bolter shell" pots (both the flip-top and screw-top types), rename paints with trademarkable names to wrongfoot competitors, and create a paint-by-numbers range that is designed to help people get their grey legions painted as simply as possible. Thus, this edition of paints is quite different from its predecessors in intent. It's specifically aimed at the wide majority of more average painters who just want a quick attractive result.

 

Personally, I liked the quality of the second edition best, but mostly preferred the third/fourth editions in terms of colour palette. However, for me, GW no longer provides paint I'm very interested in - P3, Vallejo, and Scale 75 all make paints which I find are better value and more to my liking properties-wise. And that's fine - everyone likes different things afterall! :)

 

 

I have some of the old GW washes and inks myself. I don't really use them anymore since they don't cover with the nice gradient like the current shades do. I suppose they are better for recess shades, pinwashing and so on. I need to find a good use for them I suppose.

 

In the second edition, inks were called Washes, and there was also a concurrent range of Glazes (which were inks thinned down with a lot of acrylic medium). All other editions up to the current (fifth) edition, these have just been called inks.

 

I'll be honest - I don't really like the second edition washes much either. I've tried and tried to get them to work, but in the end I just don't think they were formulated very well - even if you thin them, they are so intense that they often stain the paint underneath. The darker washes also had a habit of reactivating after they'd dried too, which was extremely annoying if you were trying to paint a light trim or a freehand detail afterwards. Finally, some colours (blue and red especially) regularly dried with a golden-looking sheen that was reminiscent of interference paint.

 

Those old GW ink Washes aside, I do like and use inks. My recommendation if you want some is to look at Vallejo's offerings. Failing that, Daler Rowney make a range called FW Artist's Inks that's very good (but which will need to be settled out). :)

[Magos Takatus]

Thanks for the advice, I've been meaning to experiment with my paint brands a bit more. I've been testing the Scale 75 metallics and they seem a little too thin for my liking and separate really quickly, but the range of colours they make are really nice and they look great if you're patient with them. I tried their decayed metal through my airbrush a few days ago and it was really easy to work with. I bought their flesh paint set and I've barely opened a GW flesh paint since. I tested them with my Electro Priests and I think they turned out really well.

 

I remember the old glazes and coloured metallics in the Games Workshop stores but I didn't buy them because my pre-teen brain thought washes that had been watered down seemed bad value and that I could make any metallic by mixing Mithril Silver with anything to make a new metallic (which made my Blood Angel captain, they guy before the "real" captain Tycho, really, really ugly!). 

 

And don't remind me of those screw-top paints, please! Those were an abomination. I lost so many pots of paint during that era due to them drying out. Even the ones that didn't were unpleasant to work with. I've had lots of 2nd edition paints last until today just fine (apart from the plastic tops becoming brittle) compared to the later paints.

 

I think we're going to have to re-name this thread "Hobbyists showing their age" or something similar! 

[Major_Gilbear]

I think we're going to have to re-name this thread "Hobbyists showing their age" or something similar! 

 

Quite!

 

My only Scale 75 experience is with their regular colours - I've not tried the inks or metallics.

 

If there's interest, I could do a colour match for S75 paints to the above old colours? It may take a few days though, as my friend has a bigger collection of them than I do, and I'd want to hold paints against each other to get the best matches.

 

 

 

 

Edit: spelling gremlins

Edited January 18, 2018 by Major_Gilbear

[Arkhanist]

Many of my screwtop hex pots live on as painting handles. Certainly more useful than they ever were as  paint pots, I don't have a single one that didn't dry solid within a couple of years. I'll have a poke through my 'retirement' paint box to see if I have any surviving old reds from the fliptop era.

[Firepower]

Personally, I despise the current line of paint pots.  They close themselves constantly, so you can't even use the built in reservoir on the cap, and reopening them every time you need to load the brush is infuriating.  

 

Damn you GW, why can't you see the glory of dropper bottles?!  Is it because it'd show how little paint you actually sell us per pot? ;)

 

Now for some Matlock and a nap...where's my apple sauce?

 

On yet another tangent, Badger just sent out the request for payment for their big $54 bargain event.  A 105 and Sotar 20/20 to experiment with, as well as the palette itself.  I'm gonna need a lot of chaff models to work with 

[Magos Takatus]

Personally, I despise the current line of paint pots.  They close themselves constantly, so you can't even use the built in reservoir on the cap, and reopening them every time you need to load the brush is infuriating.  

 

 

I get that all the time. The other thing that annoys me about the new ones is that paint loves to accumulate in the cap so eventually the pots don't seal very well. With the old 2nd ed tall hex pots it was easy to remove it but since the new pots have a deep groove in the cap it's far trickier to clean than it has any right to be.

 

Oh, I understand now I've used an airbrush how big a deal dropper bottles are. :D

 

As for needing a chaff model to start with, I started on a Hive Tyrant for a friend. It's a minor miracle that I didn't screw it up too badly (I'll probably post the completed model in a few days but it just needs the Bonesword painting and perhaps some mottled patterns and it'll be done). 

[Ovidius Incertus]

Actually for priming I was thinking of something along the lines of what Luther does: https://www.themightybrush.com/how-to-paint-blood-angels-part-i/

 

In my experience Vallejo primers are awful (for durability, they don't bite into the model like proper primer), so I'd probably prime GW white, spray on a thin coat of a neutral reddish brown, and do the zenithal highlights and shadows pre-painting.  They actually have the same color as that primer as a regular paint, but I'm not sure it would work just as well for a brighter red-orange top coat.  I dunno if I'll need to use a brighter yellow either, but I wager it should work as well with a red-orange top coat.

 

Speaking from experience painting reds over their German Red Brown primer, you will need to do pre-shading with some color other than red for sure.  Their reds are really so transparent that with a brownish red underneath, you need way too much to get any contrast at all.  I've tried GRB primer with Mahogany and/or Hull Red pre-shades and never got much in the way of contrast.

 

Without going through all the intermediate steps that Luther does, that reddish prime is not very effective.

[Firepower]

Yeah, I'm curious to find out how that yellow undercoat after priming and zenithal pre-shading will work out with a brighter, orange-red top coat.  Should be interesting :)

[Major_Gilbear]

You know, it the lightest colour on the finished scheme is a pastel orange-yellow, you might want to start from an ivory or light tan undercoat.

 

It would give you a lot of brightness and vibrancy, and could "participate" in the under-shading.

 

Then again, I don't know how hard it is to shade down rather than highlight up with an airbrush... I guess it depends on the airbrush and on skill.

[Withershadow]

That original color is not orange, it's scarlet!  Use old Soviet flags for reference!

 

I recently bought a vial of Vallejo Air Bloody Red, and it's pretty orange.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Withershadow