How are your Custodes doing?

[MeatGrinder]

TBH, I cant see myself using allarus as long as tactical reserves exists as a rule. Honestly one of the most unneeded rules added via FAQ. T1 deep strike works fine in AOS, and in 40k it just means a heavier emphasis on getting shot off t1.

[Prot]

 

As cool as Allarus are, they are never going to be as good as bikes, unless they get a serious points decrease.

 

 

 

TBH, I cant see myself using allarus as long as tactical reserves exists as a rule. Honestly one of the most unneeded rules added via FAQ. T1 deep strike works fine in AOS, and in 40k it just means a heavier emphasis on getting shot off t1.

 

I'll meet you guys halfway: Allarus on Bikes!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That list looks liker ducks in a barrel to me.

 

I have to say if you think the change to deep strike makes Allarus unplayable well you don't really understand the strength of deep strike nor was it ever an issue that they needed to be able to do so turn 1.

[shanewatts]

Ya, if you are deepstriking Allarus, this newest change doesn't change much anyway since you'd be waiting till turn 2/3 to get in the enemy backfield.

[MeatGrinder]

On average being in combat turn 3 is pretty crap for 250ish points. Especially when we have bikes that can just to that anyway with fly. By turn 3 its too late to deal with serious threats.

 

Its not the change this FAQ, its tac reserves in general. Like I said before, t1 DS is not an issue in AoS, and promotes more engaging deployment and screening. Bringing in tac reserves has made a lot of the anti-DS tactics irrelevent.

[shanewatts]

Agreed

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Those are vague generalities.

 

You can easily be in turn 2 melee with Allarus - it’s a sure thing too .

 

Bikes are easy mode for sure but they have limitations as well. The real problem is generalists who can’t see a tree from a forest endlessly shouting BIKES4DAYZ.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Black Orange

[MeatGrinder]

Those are vague generalities.

 

You can easily be in turn 2 melee with Allarus - it’s a sure thing too .

 

Bikes are easy mode for sure but they have limitations as well. The real problem is generalists who can’t see a tree from a forest endlessly shouting BIKES4DAYZ.

 

Please give me the courtesy of not implying that Im unable to see the weaknesses of allarus while Im literally explaining the weaknesses of allarus.

 

The average charge roll is 7. You need to cover at least 9" to be in melee after deep striking. Thats not a sure thing.

 

So on average you are in melee turn 3, assuming your target hasn't moved away and out of range. Being 9" away, even slow units can keep you needing a high roll for subsequent charges too, something bikes dont experiance witth their 14" move.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

First why must they be in melee by turn 3? What if they just act as a deterrent and that is enough ? My comment was in regard to armies that want to assault and there are plenty of them.

[MeatGrinder]

Because 250 points is a lot for a deterrant, and in an army with such minimal expensive units they need to pull their weight. Hitting their target t3 means that their target has had 2 or 3 turns to do what it needs to do before you even try to kill it. Meaning things like knights, heavy tanks, characters, etc have all done their job before you can stop them. A smart player isnt worried about a unit that isnt a threat until that late, and can still be screened off valuable targets.

 

I ran allarus for a long time, because I love the models, but they really never made much of an impact. I run a custodes battalion, and T3 is usually when they get into combat anyway, so the allarus werent adding that much that the guard couldnt do.

 

Custodes dont really have an issue with armies that want to charge us, because we are primarily a melee-centric army anyway.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Custodes are melee-centric... are you sure about that ?

 

Anyways I run three detachments, BA-DW-AC... so my Allarus synergize well with the rest of my army.

[MeatGrinder]

Yes custodes are melee-centric. The vast majority of their strength lies in their combat ability. Its not their shooting, where they have almost exclusively str4 bolter shots, or their non-existant psychic phase.

[KJB]

Need help you guys...

 

What’s the best way to arm a Shield Captain on foot?

 

Spear?

Axe?

Sword & Shield?

Allarus?

 

I know most people go for Captain on a Dawneagle, but I’m not a huge fan of them (and I’m a bit strapped for cash at the mo’...)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Take a Castellan Axe, Allarus terminator armor and the Eagle Eye relic for 3++ save. If he’s your Warlord take Superior Creation for his WLT and use the stratagem Victor of the Blood Games.

[MeatGrinder]

Yeh allarus for the ballistus and extra wound is probably the best build. Its only 20 points extra, which is a steal.

 

I havent bothered too much with blood games, I havent been getting enough use out of it. As a rule of thumb if you thinm youll be rerolling at least 2 saves with him in the game and have the cp spare then give it to him.

[Prot]

Well I had my game.... ridicule my list if you must, but realize that I like risk and playing unconventional lists!

 

My Tau opponent had brought a Riptide, and Stormsurge. Longstrike and a Hammerhead hung out together and there was the usual Warlord, battlesuites, stealth suits and marker lights. So I knew I probably made a mistake by only taking 3 bikers.

 

We played our modified Maelstrom ( which I swear still keeps players fairly honest by forcing them to move). I won first turn and felt a little confidence creep into my demeanour just as it was crushed when the Tau stole the initiative.

 

I was tempted to use the new Strat for cover but CPs are such a rarity for pure Custodes.

 

First turn I was in the hole early on points. He used his devilish and tanks very well. When he saw my bikes emerge he know he had to kill them... the Tau foolishly ignored my Telemon Dreadnought in order to do but I could hardly blame him considering all my mobility came from that unit.

 

I have not faced a Stormsurge since my last ITC Gt and remember thinking people should use these more. I felt that way again as the Bokra (?) sept rule allowed the Stormsurge to extend its potent ranges by 6 inches and it slaughtered my Vertis Praetors with ease.

 

Behind in points I really felt it was all but over. I pushed my army forward nonetheless with the guidance of Trajann. I slngshotted the Allarus in as usual with my Imperialis Standard and watched him sweat a little. I took a massive risk with my Warlord, an Allarus Captain and put him up against a few vehicles in deep strike to score Maelstrom points. He was on his own.... thankfully I gave him Blood Games.

 

My Telemon put a somewhat lucky but much needed dent in the Riptide. My opponent had a different evaluation of the Telemon now. I got lucky and finished off the Riptide. my Greyfax took control of Life ngstrike and had him shoot the Hammerhead tank. The other Inquisitor Psyker cast terrify on a squad of breachers removing their overwatch. Then I played the stun grenade Strat on fire warriors and a screen of warriors in front of the Stormsurge and his Warlord. He was starting to sweat, maybe just a little.

 

Eventually I killed the screens, and his Warlord due to a strong charge roll. My Warlord in Allarus took away a key objective by getting a 9” charge off on a Devil Fish. My remaining Guardians finished off crisis suits and Breachers with ease since they were prevented from overwatching.

 

In return he over reached trying to kill my Telemon, and he failed to put a dent in the Telemon but did kill a lot of Guardians and 2 of my 3 alllarus.

 

Finally I got his Stormsurge after the death of his Warlord. With Blood Games, my Allarus Captain managed to survive the combined firepower of Firewarriors, drones, longstrike, a devilish and drones!

 

This was particularly demoralizing to the Tau and they decided to concede at that point.

 

He thought my banner was a big difference maker and he admitted to greatly under estimating the Telemon Dread. But I’m pretty sure he won’t do that again! At the same time it sacks losing your only bike squad so soon. ;)

 

Am I surprised I won? Heck yea. Did I admit that to the fish player? Heck no. Lol. Actually in trusty I told him I thought I was doomed when he stole the initiative and killed my nikes in one turn!

[shanewatts]

Nice game Prot.

 

People don't take the Stormsurge because it lacks the battlesuit keyword and the for the greater good rule. Meaning it can't overwatch for other tau units and also can't use drones.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Remember back in 7th Edition those types of units couldn’t overwatch so it makes sense.

 

Congrats on the win Prot.

[Prot]

Nice game Prot.

 

People don't take the Stormsurge because it lacks the battlesuit keyword and the for the greater good rule. Meaning it can't overwatch for other tau units and also can't use drones.

 

Thanks guys.

 

I have been seeing it creep into tournie lists again. But as useless as my Inquisition Vanguard felt, being able to deny overwatch on units was huge.

 

I'm not fooling anyone though... I got lucky and my opponent ignored the Telemon too long. I don't think he'd make that mistake again. :)

 

Great model too. I love that sculpt and he's pointed about right I think. I think his "Custodes" keyword is attractive, but most will probably still gravitate towards Armiger Helverins. I still haven't painted my Helverins, they are so flexible for Imperium lists right now with shooting 'issues'. I use them in my Deathwatch as well.... heck even my Chaos armies.

[Ishagu]

I enjoy Custodes but they have taken a back seat whilst I assemble and grow my AdMech.

 

When the FW supplement is released it will grow my excitement again as I can build a more unique army.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

FW could make Custodes playable as a mono faction.

[rcoon]

I slngshotted the Allarus in as usual with my Imperialis Standard and watched him sweat a little.

I struggle to see the use of the vexilla teleport strategem. You have to march a vexilla up the battlefield and get within range of an enemy unit, and you can't use the strategem if the vexilla DS'd that turn, so at best you DS the vexilla turn 2 and the DS then Allarus turn 3?

Edited October 15, 2018 by rcoon

[Prot]

 

I slngshotted the Allarus in as usual with my Imperialis Standard and watched him sweat a little.

I struggle to see the use of the vexilla teleport strategem. You have to march a vexilla up the battlefield and get within range of an enemy unit, and you can't use the strategem if the vexilla DS'd that turn, so at best you DS the vexilla turn 2 and the DS then Allarus turn 3?

 

 

The Vexila is on foot. I have to say I use the strat just about every game. I think if you struggle to see the use of it, the easy answer is just use more bikes. I'm sure you would get more mileage out of that. I just personally trying to play more and more with the less popular options in the codex, and I've grown to love that Strat, but there's no doubt until costs drop, the bikes will see infinitely more play in competitive environments.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The strat is aswesome against melee armies like daemonbombs. Edited October 15, 2018 by Black Orange

[rcoon]

My meta has gone full blown arms race and is essentially apocalypse right now. The entire field is full of knights, Onagers, Predators, leviathan dreads, blighthaulers etc. Meanwhile I'm zooming around with jetbikes and a bunch of foot soldiers that either never get in melee because they're holding points, or die on the way to melee to try and take out some of the backline heavy fire. My Shadowsword is getting tabled turn 1 every game and rarely makes a dent in anything unless I go first, even then I either bracket a knight (because rotate ion shields prevents me from killing it outright), or one shot a 200pt vehicle.

 

I went from about 7 wins in a row, to losing the last three games turn 1 or turn 2 from being tabled or absolutely annihilated by heavy weapons.

 

Anybody have any suggestions? And no, going for points isn't working at all. My last game against a slew of deathguard vehicles and termies netted me 2VP while my opponent was on 7. Do I buy a spearhead of Leman Russes or Onagers? It feels like my Custodes army is a bit useless in this meta to be quite honest. I'm a bit frustrated that I have to outspend my opponents in real world cash in order to compete despite having a wide range of units from Adeptus Custodes. Our Land raider sucks, our dreadnought sucks, and a single FW Dread is going to suffer from big model syndrome and have the same fate as the Shadowsword. The more anti tank I put in, the less custodes I can actually take. Essentially to fight this meta I have to not play custodes.

 

EDIT: For my general all purpose list I've settled on a simple battalion - 2 shield captains on bikes as warlord and both with invul relics, 1 allarus captain, 1 allarus vexilla, three squads of three guard with a shield in each, and two blobs of 5 bikes.

Edited October 17, 2018 by rcoon