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Intercessors - is quantity its own quality?


momerathe

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I can't get this (probably stupid) idea out of my head, so I'm going to put it out there before I spend more money on yet more models I will never get round to painting :wink:.

 

I've always wanted troops that are good. It's never sat well with me this idea that the units that should be your bread-and-butter are just "tax", or "chaff". I want something with board presence that will take a decent amount of punishment, control space, and present a legitimate threat.

 

After the CA points drop, are Intercessors this unit I've always wanted? Well, no. But maybe a little bit.

 

What they are, is remarkably efficient in terms of points lost to incoming fire. They're almost as resilient as IG infantry, and it's a damn sight easier to put 10 intercessors on an objective than it is to put 40 guard. (Of course, there is their startling vulnerability to overcharged plasma, but bear with me on this). They are also not-terrible in melee (BA intercessors may even be - gasp! - decent at it).

 

What they are not, is much of a threat. You're not going to be deleting squads of.. well, anything really. They will do work over time, but... eh.

 

But still, there's a part of my brain that says "target saturation". Taking 6x5, or even 4x10 intercessors and play to the mission. Stick 'em in cover with RG chapter tactics; every plasma gun shot at them is one that isn't targeting the killier units in your army.

 

Wishful thinking?

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If Intercessors had better "options" or were a bit cheaper than Hell-blasters and Reivers I would agree. They aren't, however much the fluff-monster in me wishes they were. I hate spamming units just for sake of being "competitive". :( but as one dedicated to an all Primaris Chapter options are limited at the moment. I still think you need a minimum of 4 x5 for ObSec, but beyond that you need heavier hitters to keep the wolves (not those wolves brother) at bay.
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i recently ran a primaris brigade and the intercessors weren't too bad, they won't do the real work with their shooting, its only strength 4 afterall, but they do contribute, and 6 OBSEC squads that are fairly resilient is pretty handy.

 

They absolutely need to be backed up by stuff like hellblasters and inceptors though.

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i recently ran a primaris brigade [...]

Have you got a list posted? I'd be interested to see what you ran with..
Don't believe I posted it anywhere, To be honest, you're pretty limited with a brigade though.

 

- Captain (auto bolt rifle and power sword and the artisan warlord trait)

- 2 x lieutenant (both with power swords)

- Apothecary

- Ancient (BA relic banner that gives any model within 6" a 5+++)

- 3 man Aggressor squad (flamers on a whim)

- 6 x 5 man intercessor squads with chainsword sergeants, 2 units had grenade launchers

- 2 x 3 man inceptor squads with assault bolters

- 1 x 3 man inceptor squad with plasma

- 2 x 5 man hellblaster squad with regular guns

- 1 x 5 man hellblaster squad with heavy plasma.

 

Iirc

 

Not the best indicator, but I tabled a grey knight army by end of turn 3 and was controlling all but one objective by then.

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Damn except minor changes that list pretty much mirrors my workshop prep area :). Good to know your having some success there BH ;)

My usual list is more mechanized making use of two repulsors, I tried the above on a whim and found it to be quite enjoyable.

 

I think it did as well as it did because I got close to the statue scenery that grants a cover save to units 25% obscured by it and because of the BA banner, between those and having so many CP that I could afford to reroll things when needed my opponent struggled.

 

The intercessors themselves didn't kill over much (a strike squad, an interceptor squad (with help from aggressors) and a couple of terminators. But they held their own.

 

The captain and a lieutenant charged a GK grandmaster, the lieutenant went in first to clear a path role-playing wise (He took the overwatch of the heavy psylencer (think that's what he had)) the captain used red rampage, got 3 extra attacks for a whopping 8 attacks, they all hit and 7 wounded... I think he failed 4 invulnerable saves and took 8 wounds. Was pretty awesome as he is "just" a primaris captain with power armour, power sword and MC auto bolt rifle haha.

 

I literally has my units move to make a path for my captain and lieutenant to run up, was like in the movies where the champion is given way - very cinematic.

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every plasma gun shot at them is one that isn't targeting the killier units in your army.

 

I wish more players would understand and embrace this simple truth.  Whenever someone talks about how this-or-that unit can be wiped out on Turn One (usually requiring the concentrated firepower of all their best weaponry), they seem oblivious to the notion that in the meantime, the entire rest of my army is closing in unmolested.

 

Yes, concentrated firepower is the way to destroy an enemy - but they seem to forget that suppressive fire is the way to keep him from being a threat to begin with.

 

I hope you have had the opportunity to demonstrate the cost of their folly.

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Good points KoL. Because it a game based on pl/pts though there will be still be a point though where we have gone too far. Missions and even just Kill More Than They Do games are going to require careful unit selection.

 

Intercessors are expensive enough even slammed they don't have the staying power of a horde list. and every army is going to have Marine killings gear that will chip away at those 30-40 Intercessors.

 

On the flip side even if you spam Hellblasters, they don't have ObSec and won't grant CP the way Intercessors will.

 

In my opinion a Primaris "only" force Is a finely balanced blade that needs a skilled swordsman to wield effectively.

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Actually, Intercessors are easily the most efficient power armoured troop choice in the game, but *certain* horde units are indeed still a superior proposition.

 

In terms of staying power they are pretty solid. The enemy will have to dedicate a massive mumber of anti infantry shots or some of their more elite shooting their way instead to clear out squads.

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In my opinion a Primaris "only" force Is a finely balanced blade that needs a skilled swordsman to wield effectively.

This isn't directed specifically at you, but your post does bring something to mind; I've noticed that most discussion of primaris units tends to focus on "pure" primaris. I wonder if this is the best way to think about them, or if it's a kind of tunnel vision. Even if you want to avoid having two different sizes of marine of the table, there's nothing stopping you backing up your core of primaris marines with a couple of predators or a venerable dread..

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In my opinion a Primaris "only" force Is a finely balanced blade that needs a skilled swordsman to wield effectively.

This isn't directed specifically at you, but your post does bring something to mind; I've noticed that most discussion of primaris units tends to focus on "pure" primaris. I wonder if this is the best way to think about them, or if it's a kind of tunnel vision. Even if you want to avoid having two different sizes of marine of the table, there's nothing stopping you backing up your core of primaris marines with a couple of predators or a venerable dread..

I think for myself and maybe others it's a personal choice based on any number of things. For me it's the models. I love the way they look and just don't want to play with regular marine models anymore. That's a choice. I accept the limitations that placed on my competitive abilities. Which is fine. I've always liked playing elite armies like Grey Knights or Deathwing (which were totally not painted up or called DA termies) :)

 

Totally agree vehicles and artillery are viable for Primaris only armies (except transports sadly) because as I've said elsewhere - come on GW it's just freaking bigger seats and head room. :)

 

Would like a Primaris Techmarine though :)

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Alright, here's what I've come up with. I must admit, I struggled a bit to come up with the "hammer" to go with the "anvil" without ending up with something that would leave me pinned in my deployment zone..

+ HQ +

Captain: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Captain: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad: 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 9x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword
Intercessor Squad: 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 9x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword
Intercessor Squad: 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 9x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword
Intercessor Squad: 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 9x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

+ Elites +

Venerable Dreadnought: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon
Venerable Dreadnought: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon
Venerable Dreadnought: Twin lascannon, Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad: Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant
Inceptor Squad: Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

+ Heavy Support +

Hellblaster Squad [16 PL, 210pts]: Assault Plasma Incinerator
. 5x Hellblaster
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

Despite what I said to Inquisitor Dracos ;), this could have easily ended up as Primaris-only if I'd taken more Hellblasters and a Redemptor instead of the Venerables..

 

Chapter tactics, I'm leaning towards Ultramarines or Imperial FIsts.

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Actually, Intercessors are easily the most efficient power armoured troop choice in the game, but *certain* horde units are indeed still a superior proposition.

In terms of staying power they are pretty solid. The enemy will have to dedicate a massive mumber of anti infantry shots or some of their more elite shooting their way instead to clear out squads.

Fight me Ishagu, in all seriousness while Intercessors are solid. Wound Count aside Grey Hunters and Crusader Squads are better offensively*. Intercessors are good line infantry for bulking up flanks or middle. Tacticals, Heavy is only thing that they offer that Intercessors do not. For anyone beside Wolves or Templars, Intercessors are by far the best PA Marine Troop. Unless you want a 90 Point Heavy Weapon

 

*Chapter Tactics for Intercessors, BA and IH specifically bring Intercessors to Crusader and Grey Hunter Level, a tad more durable vs small arms (or appreciably more in case of Iron Hands vs small and anti-armor) with only a marginal less offensive power. Ultra’s, IF and DA are good for firefighting in general. White Scars and Ravens are good but like Templars don’t make Intercessors specifically better. Through AutoRifle Cessors combo well with Raven Tactic. Salamanders and Intercessors actively not helpful sense they don’t have single super shots like Tacticals.

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I've been using Intersessors a lot mainly because I love the models but they have preformed well for me as a counter assault/screen unit for my Hellblasters. Against opponents that play very competitive(cheese) lists I load 5 Intersessors with PS and a GL with 5 Hellblasters into a Repulser(Las + dakka). I take 2 like this and the 3rd Repulser gets hq's and Hellblasters for rerolls and more plasma death. I always take a Powersword and a grenade launcher because it's just 5 points to add some teeth to them.

I use either BT or DA rules for them depending on how comp I want to be. But in all seriousness the MK 10 armored Primaris have become some of my favorite models.

http://bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_13734/gallery_65696_13734_339137.jpg

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I've been using Intersessors a lot mainly because I love the models but they have preformed well for me as a counter assault/screen unit for my Hellblasters. Against opponents that play very competitive(cheese) lists I load 5 Intersessors with PS and a GL with 5 Hellblasters into a Repulser(Las + dakka). I take 2 like this and the 3rd Repulser gets hq's and Hellblasters for rerolls and more plasma death. I always take a Powersword and a grenade launcher because it's just 5 points to add some teeth to them.

I use either BT or DA rules for them depending on how comp I want to be. But in all seriousness the MK 10 armored Primaris have become some of my favorite models.

http://bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_13734/gallery_65696_13734_339137.jpg

Sweet power sword effect. Where did you get the blades?

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Salamanders and Intercessors actively not helpful sense they don’t have single super shots like Tacticals.

I totally see where you're coming from, but there is always the underslung grenade launcher. Definitely not as good as some of the Tactical options, but it is something. Plus even without it, Salamanders make the squad's fire a little more consistent, which means more armour saves that your opponent has to make.

 

And lest we forget, everyone just looks better in green

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I've been using Intersessors a lot mainly because I love the models but they have preformed well for me as a counter assault/screen unit for my Hellblasters. Against opponents that play very competitive(cheese) lists I load 5 Intersessors with PS and a GL with 5 Hellblasters into a Repulser(Las + dakka). I take 2 like this and the 3rd Repulser gets hq's and Hellblasters for rerolls and more plasma death. I always take a Powersword and a grenade launcher because it's just 5 points to add some teeth to them.

I use either BT or DA rules for them depending on how comp I want to be. But in all seriousness the MK 10 armored Primaris have become some of my favorite models.http://bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_13734/gallery_65696_13734_339137.jpg

 

Sweet power sword effect. Where did you get the blades?
Thanks. Those particular power swords came with the Primaris lieutenants. The middle one is the DA lieutenant with all the heresy ;) scraped off and zeal added to make him a proper Sword Brother. Most of my intersessor sergeants I used the DW terminator power sword from the DA vet box. I had a lot of those bits on hand. The squat marine hand are a little small and the terminator hands are a tiny bit big but I think it's almost unnoticeable once painted.
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I think they arent too far from being a competitive choice.  As OP said... they saw play in LVO Blood Angels lists.  

 

I think if their roll is anti infantry firepower and counter charging they are pretty decent.  Two attacks base and a bolter with -1 ap is pretty good.  

 

The reason they arent as good in the Vanilla codex is that dont really have any sauce.  No cool special rules or stratagems help them.  Except for Raven Guard!  The -1 to hit will be a bigger deal for them once Dark Reapers get taken to the wood shed by GW.  Fingers crossed for a Commissar style nerfing.    

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It's their survivability that's not to be taken lightly. It's why that BA player took them.

5 intercessors in cover are as hard to budge as 5 Terminators, and they only cost 90 points.

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