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Stormravens - Are they still worth it?


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#1
SyNidus

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So, given the price hike and the boots on the ground, i'm wondering - Are stormravens still worth it?

The Twin Assault, Twin Multi-melta, and 2 Hurricane Bolter variant comes up to about 350+ points. While it's tough, these guys are taken down in one turn of shooting by Dark Reapers.

 

What are everyone's thoughts on whether or not to run stormravens and if so, what kit and contents?


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#2
Ishagu

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Yeah, totally. It's a great unit but it also poses a great threat so it can be shot down early.

Even with the point hike it's still worth the cost. If you're running one or two you don't have to worry about Boots on the ground as you'll still have plenty of other units on the table.
Following the hike in Assault Cannon costs I think it's now best to run the Raven as a dedicated Tank hunter, Twin Melta, Twin Las Cannon, Missiles. Hurricane Bolters are still worth it on any load-out.

Edited by Ishagu, 01 February 2018 - 09:44 AM.

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#3
Captain Idaho

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Yeah I agree. Still a great bit of kit. Dark Reapers brake the game but against most other armies you should at least get it across the table with cargo to do damage turn 2, whilst laying down blistering firepower.

Assault Cannons are lovely but the build is important. As Ishagu points out, the increases in points for some options means you can choose different options without feeling others are more points efficient.

My idea of builds are:

- Twin heavy Bolters, hurricane Bolters and twin assault cannon.

- Multi-Melta, Twin Lascannon, Hurricane Bolters

- Heavy Bolters, Typhoon Missile Launcher and Hurricane Bolters.

But really I don't think you can go far wrong with any load out.
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#4
LucidNinja

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I'm building a list around a storm raven full of Veterans,a Captain a lieutenant and a chaplain dreadnought. Going Las Missile and hurricanes just cause I'm missing AT. I'll admit I'm not the most competitive player but I think it should be able 2 drop it's cargo before getting taken out more often than not.

#5
Ishagu

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Just make sure you have another high profile threat unit to distract your opponent.
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#6
Claws and Effect

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My Fire Raptor is around the same cost and has more firepower.

I miss the transport capacity, but the Stormraven tended to die before delivery anyway.

#7
Ishagu

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Well, a Fire Raptor is no more durable than a Raven, although it does have superior firepower. Depends what you're using the flyer for...

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#8
Race Bannon

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"It's a complete different kind of flying.  Altogether."


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#9
Kierdale

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#10
Firepower

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I'd say the Ravens are viable, and the versatility of their weapon load outs is a key factor in that.  Lots of Templars have come to prefer it over the LRC, because it can still transport an above average number of models, a dreadnought, has more firepower than the LRC, flies (avoiding melee locks), and has more firepower, while coming in at a roughly equal price tag depending on weapons.  The LRC also got hit by the Assault Cannon point jump, but can't take an alternative gun like the Raven can. :(

 

Stupid Razor spam jacked the LRC and the Talon.  verymad.gif


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#11
Brother Captain Ed

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Stupid Razor spam jacked the LRC and the Talon. verymad.gif


This is exactly why I think the whole "add together two separate costs for model and wargear" thing is insane.

I can't remember a single time anybody look at the game and thought "Gee, I sure wish there was a simple mechanism to raise the cost of every model with X item." Invariably the problem is a complete datasheet and not a single piece of gear. The assault Cannon collateral damage to the Space Marine Arsenal just because of the Razorback is a perfect example of why the whole thing was a solution in search of a problem. If Razorbacks are too cheap, then raise the cost on the Razorback not half the vehicles in the motor pool. The painfully inelegant way we are forced to build lists alone should be enough to show that it was a bad idea. Yet here we are.

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#12
Firepower

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Well if they lowered the price of the LRC and Talon, which are forced to take the TLAC, it would've been fine.  They just didn't carry through all the way on the balance.


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#13
chapter master 454

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I find they are almost impossible to stop delivering their payload where you want it. I personally have one with assault cannons, meltas and hurricanes. Due to the stormstrikes, it doesn't need anymore anti-tank on it and I have found when it arrives it will remove or at the very least hamstring several units in one go. Slap some vanguards in it or assault centurions, contract a retainer captain or chaplain with lieutenant supervisor and watch as turn 2 becomes a murder fest of doom wherever you want it.

 

For your boots, you just run some good ol' intercessors and laugh as the opponent now tries to chew through ether you intercessors in vain to trigger boots on the ground or try in vain to stop the stormravens.

 

Stormravens I would argue are the only really good thing marines have going for them right now beyond all their other units. It is a flying fortress of firepower and transport goodies. The main thing is that it takes a standard tank statline, puts a few more wounds on it, clamps on the flyer -1 to hit rule and even brings a side of option with hover jets in case you don't care about getting shot at turn 2 (because at that point your payload is down and murdering everything in sight and thus nothing will return fire). 


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#14
Toxichobbit

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I find the Storm Raven useless. I face Tyrant Guard every single censored.gif game against one of my regular opponents, so my Raven tends to be destroyed turn 1 unless I hide it at the back, which kind of defeats the purpose. It's just too many eggs in one easy to kill basket. That doesn't just apply to the Storm Raven either, but almost any vehicle that needs to get close. Land Raiders are tough enough, but anything with less than T8 and/or a 2+ save tends to be one shotted as soon as it comes into range. My other regular opponent is a Craftworlds player who enjoys his Dark Reapers. I don't think I need to explain how that goes.



#15
Ishagu

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Perhaps you need more redundancy. I run two Repulsors precisely because one might be destroyed early on.

At least a Raven is really fast so you can deploy it somewhere out of the way.

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#16
Inquisitor Dracos

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Agreed. Redundancy if optimal units is key survival and a winning list. Boring if over spammed but effective none the less. I think if you're going to play with a single high cost piece you need to accept the inevitable but then make it work for you and build your army in a way that it becomes your advantage.

2 cents on that :)
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#17
Firepower

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True, but two Ravens are so damned expensive that you begin to sacrifice a lot elsewhere.  There's a balance between redundancy and numbers that is more difficult to walk with Space Marines than a lot of other armies.


Edited by Firepower, 02 February 2018 - 07:54 AM.

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#18
Ishagu

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That's totally right. I have a friend who runs an army filled with disposable infantry units in cheap transports and an Imperial Knight Centrepiece.

That knight is always destroyed early because when you look at his army literally nothing else is asking to be shot at or poses the same kind of theat.

Now, if he had a Knight on one side of the board and another high threat unit on the other that would affect enemy deployment, dilute the firepower coming his way and go a long way to helping that Knight survive past the early turns.

Maybe you don't need a second Raven but something else that catches your opponent's eyes. A Sicaran Venator? Two Predators? Etc etc

Edited by Ishagu, 02 February 2018 - 07:57 AM.

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#19
Toxichobbit

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Perhaps you need more redundancy. I run two Repulsors precisely because one might be destroyed early on.

At least a Raven is really fast so you can deploy it somewhere out of the way.

 

Yeh, I think that would help. Unfortunately the only other fliers I have are Stormtalons, which don't have quite the same threat as a Raven with Assault Centurions and an Ironclad. With ground units, Rhinos & Razorbacks again aren't as much of a priority as the Raven because their contents just aren't as scary. Predators are, but I keep them out of range of Hive Guard (and out of LoS of Reapers) where possible. A Land Raider would probably work, although it's quite a bit tougher and doesn't have a dangly Dreadnought, so again the Raven might become the priority. It's also a load of points to include both with decent contents. Pretty much the entire list will be inside those two models. Easy to get the +1 for first turn though.

 

I wonder if the answer is to spread the eggs out. The Raven is fantastic for deploying Assault Cents & an Ironclad, but it also makes it a very tempting target. Something weaker in the Raven, like a Tactical Squad and a normal Dreadnought would be much less tempting. Of course, that's almost a waste of the Raven and leaves Assault Cents & the Ironclad in need of another closer, so it's far from perfect.


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#20
StrummersGhost

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In my experience its definitely still worthwhile. Like most of you, my raven is targeted as a priority and typically does not survive long, but I've always managed to dish out enough damage to make it worth it.

The last few games I've played it empty and very aggressively, zipping it right into the enemy and unleashing everything its got before the inevitable happens. Load outs I've kept it anti infantry and always with hurricane bolters.

Edited by StrummersGhost, 02 February 2018 - 02:42 PM.


#21
Race Bannon

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#22
Brother Captain Alberic

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One of my plans includes a Stormraven packing a squad of Sternguard.  Would 2 Redemptors be a suitable distraction along side that, shame the Raven isn't allowed to carry one.


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#23
CCE1981

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One of my plans includes a Stormraven packing a squad of Sternguard. Would 2 Redemptors be a suitable distraction along side that, shame the Raven isn't allowed to carry one.


You can carry Relic Contemptors though, and with dual chainfist and plasma blasters are pretty scary!

#24
chapter master 454

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Just curious, why is hiding it back a bad thing? The thing can move 45" when full and while it can rapidly lose movement, if you hide it back 45" then it should be able to hide effectively behind anything and because it flys, it doesn't care about the line it takes. With 45" movement, even if you want to get within multi-melta half range, you still have an effective range of ~56" which as I seem to think is what? Just shy of 5 Foot? For infantry wanting to charge, that still gives them an extra 3" for getting out, 6" of their standard movement (I assume you are using standard marines here, not terminators of the like) which then from there that means depending on what you want there is thus:

 

For melee units, if going for a safe charge of 7" (safe as in likely) this means you have a range of about 61" which is OVER 5 feet and you can even go beyond that if you just want to deliver your package and get 81" which is over 7 and a half feet! Most tables aren't even that long even across the DIAGONAL! How can you NOT get in range if hidden in the backlines? Ether you are on some titanic boards not fit for 2k points or your terrain is naff!


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#25
SyNidus

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The reason i stopped using them was because dark reapers could slag them in one turn before i've even had a chance to do much. If i go first, all well and good, but if not, the stormraven is toast.

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