Non-binary / Agender options for users' gender identity

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Pretty small suggestion, but I think it's an important one - including 'non-binary' and 'agender' as options alongside 'male', 'female' and 'not telling' for users' gender selection.

 

Hopefully it wouldn't be especially taxing to implement, but it seems like a really easy measure to help the forum seem like an open and friendly environment for genderqueer hobbyists. Considering GW seems to be making moves to increase inclusivity in the hobby, it seems appropriate for the B&C to do something in kind, especially considering that the community tends to be portrayed as overwhelmingly white, straight and male.

 

As the B&C is maybe the best 40k forum for open and friendly discourse (often due to the hard work of the mods), I'd hope this seems like a natural fit for the forum.

 

Thanks,

 

IHF

[Spinsanity]

Pretty small suggestion...

I have to admit, to see IHF - the most prolific magos of the BnC - suggest that the board acknowledge non-binary options is ironic, to say the least.

 

I salute the idea, of course.

 

+ Edit: I assume this makes you an adept of the Dark-Mech? o.Ô

[WarriorFish]

If anything I'd remove it. It's irrelevant to discussion, what matters is what you say after all.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

If anything I'd remove it. It's irrelevant to discussion, what matters is what you say after all.

 

While I get the reasoning behind that suggestion, I'd worry that suddenly removing the ability for users' to display their gender identity as soon as the possibility of genderqueer options was proposed could be interpreted as suggesting that those members of the community should hide their identity or shouldn't be proud of who they are in spaces related to the hobby.

 

Additionally, while users' gender isn't relevant to the content of the discussion on the forum, it is relevant to how discussion takes place. Members are frequently referred to in threads using pronouns, which are usually gendered, and tend to default to male. Not having to go out of your way to ensure members address you by your appropriate pronouns is a valuable resource - and with the 'not telling' option, there's no pressure for members to disclose their gender.

 

Ideally, I'd replace the 'gender' options with the ability for users to be able to list their preferred pronouns - 'he/him', 'she/her', 'they/them, 'zie/hir', etc., but I figured this'd be an easier first step as it's simply adding two new options to an existing menu.

[Ordo Machinum]

I'd rather see it removed as well, rather than make a change. 
Feelings of "hiding" one's identity are no less problematic than feeling one must "proclaim" it.

Sex is not relevant to the hobby. The hobby is a boundless medium of expression and enjoyment. 

Nowadays, gender borders too closely on the topics of politics and religion, which some people feel "defines" themselves

and they should not have to hide these aspects of their "identity".

 

There are biologically two sexes: male & female

Anyone may identify as: male & female

Anyone may be altered to be: male & female

 

Does it matter what male & female are defined as? No, they mean different things to different people anyway.

 

If this seems offensive to anyone's sensibilities, this is probably another reason it shouldn't be included here.

 

It seems irrelevant to the hobby and this forum.

If the B&C became a live video chat where we were all face-to-face, then maybe it would be different.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Gender and biological sex are distinct things. The option in members' profiles is 'gender'.

 

Additionally, biological sex doesn't dictate the pronouns someone uses, which are relevant to how discussion on this forum takes place.

 

Feelings of "hiding" one's identity are no less problematic than feeling one must "proclaim" it.

 

I want to be very careful to make sure this thread stays clean and doesn't degenerate into bickering, but I also want to make it absolutely clear that I emphatically disagree with this statement, and that being able to freely express one's identity without fear of harassment or abuse isn't a 'proclamation'.

[Dosjetka]

Removing the option to display gender has been something on the mind of a few staff members for a while now so it's not because this was suggested that suddenly we want to remove it.

 

As others have pointed out, how people identify themselves other than forum name and avatar (or lack thereof) is completely irrelevant to this forum. People should be treated equally regardless to who they are.

 

And while Frater using the correct pronouns would be ideal, there is very little we can do to enforce anything like that. If people really feel strongly about which pronoun is used to address them, the user signature is an ideal place to display such information.

[Ordo Machinum]

Gender and biological sex are distinct things. The option in members' profiles is 'gender'.

 

Additionally, biological sex doesn't dictate the pronouns someone uses, which are relevant to how discussion on this forum takes place.

 

Feelings of "hiding" one's identity are no less problematic than feeling one must "proclaim" it.

 

I want to be very careful to make sure this thread stays clean and doesn't degenerate into bickering, but I also want to make it absolutely clear that I emphatically disagree with this statement, and that being able to freely express one's identity without fear of harassment or abuse isn't a 'proclamation'.

 

Yes, we appear to disagree on gender identity and its social roles based on sex. Rather than be accused of "bickering", I will say no more. 

[Bryan Blaire]

Doesn’t this thread and the suggestion require more off-Topic discussion and could lead to more off-Topic discussion than is needed for a board about 30/40/41K? I didn’t think the board was about “identifying myself”, there are other places on the Internet where that is what the utility of the place is. It doesn’t mean that anyone should be treated as less or more, just as a Frater. The “Gender” has always been meaningless when everyone is a Frater.

 

If we’re going to continue to have a gender thing displayed, then changing it to the pronoun would probably be best, since that’s more of a respecting someone else’s wishes item.

[Brother Tyler]

The suggestion has been made and is being discussed by the admins.

 

I'll re-open this discussion when we agree on a resolution.

[WarriorFish]

Following a review, the gender option has been removed from display rather than cause problems. It is superfluous to discussion given the B&C is about discussion of the hobby only. The B&C's rules clearly state the mission statement; that includes a deliberate lack of things outside of the hobby. On the B&C we are hobbyists only - this should help reinforce that.