Your hopes for White Scars in FW's Malevolence

[SixOfOne]

Admittedly, I got it from 1d4chan. If I remember correctly it is discussed in Hunt for Voldorius though. 

 

Yes, it most certainly is. Although, I suppose it wouldn't be as bad as Angron under the full influence of the Nails. The point is that Corax didn't view The Khan as one of the most tactically able Primarchs.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The WS/RG distrust was due to the RG losing a Chaplain I thought, post Heresy, not any friction among the Primarchs

[b1soul]

I was always under the impression the WS and RG chapters simply hada rivalry based on a bit of tactical overlap

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Brief search online:

 

From Deathwatch First Founding:

 

"One example of such rivalry can be found in the case of the Raven Guard and the White Scars, who have harboured a mutual mistrust dating back centuries. In truth, there may be no single cause of the bad blood between the two Chapters, but the mere mentioning of several battles are sure to raise the ire of Raven Guard and White Scar alike. The Assault on Hive Lin-Mei is one such conflict, as is the Last March on the Sapphire Worlds. Most acrimonious of all is Operation Chronos, in which a venerated Raven Guard Chaplain fell to Enslaver domination in circumstances where a nearby White Scars force might have been able to intervene. The ill will created by these and numerous other incidents has led to the two Chapters regarding one another with barely contained loathing, a situation that none can see an end to any time soon."

[b1soul]

...except when Shrike and Kor'sarro brofist it up

[SixOfOne]

...except when Shrike and Kor'sarro brofist it up

 

That is actually doing a bit to repair the relationship. Between them it's gone from hate to vague tolerance.

[b1soul]

@ SixOfOne

 

Haha...yeah I know, but I would say they have some grudging respect for each other now

 

I also like the WS/RG interaction in Parrino's Shape of the Hunt

[StruManChu]

FWIW, speaking to Simon (the Primarch sculptor) at the Weekender, he basically said if it was his choice there would be both Jetbike and Foot-Khan. And not in a magnetised at the waist way so you can move him between jetbike and legs, but two full proper sculpts. 

 

Whether or not we get both at once is another thing entirely, but the intention, if he's allowed by the higher ups, is to definitely do both.

[b1soul]

I guess depends on whether they think two such Khan models would make bank

[Laughingman]

More questions... Anyone know "how" the Khan rode horses back on Chogoris? As a primarch he must be weighting in excess of 400kg, given a horse can only carry 20-30% of its mass the horse in question would have to weight in excess of  the largest modern breeds. For prospective historical "heavy" war horses were generally around 680kg to 910kg, even the largest modern draught horses (shire horses I believe) max out at around 1100kg....

Edited February 8, 2018 by Laughingman

[b1soul]

He may have rode large local megafauna...probably yak or bison like

[Charlo]

Seeing as GW subscribes to the "Planet of Hats" way of thinking (Chogoris is basically all plains where it is land, Baal is all Desert, Fenris is all Snow and Volcanoes) etc, you can take some liberties with such things.

 

So Chogoris is probably conveniently home to MASSIVE fast "Horses" that the Chogorians ride. Also genetic enhancements etc.

[b1soul]

Maybe Jaghatai does the Monty Python and the Holy Grail thang

Yesugei or Qin Xa bangs the coconuts

[bluntblade]

There is a fanfic out there where a young Jaghatai finds he's outgrown his horse and devises a selective breeding program.

[Lord Marshal]

I'd like to see at least a few models in MKII armour. So many of the -Bike models being in MKIV never sat well with me whenever I looked into starting a Scars force.

[rendingon1+]

Seeing as GW subscribes to the "Planet of Hats" way of thinking (Chogoris is basically all plains where it is land, Baal is all Desert, Fenris is all Snow and Volcanoes) etc, you can take some liberties with such things.

 

So Chogoris is probably conveniently home to MASSIVE fast "Horses" that the Chogorians ride. Also genetic enhancements etc.

There are no wolves horses on Fenris Chogoris.

[carlisimo]

I've always longed for bigger differences between the loyalist legions' M31 and M41 incarnations. We know it's not happening to a large extent, especially not for the White Scars and Blood Angels, but I'll take any surprise I can get. If the Chogorian distaste for dreadnoughts is reflected in the rules (wouldn't have to be - they weren't all Chogorian), what could be added to compensate?

 

Mechanically, I assume Swift Action will be clarified and we'll find out if they intended the effects to be significant (bonuses apply in all phases once the rule is triggered) or minor (Movement and Assault phases only, i.e. bonuses on both sides of overwatch fire). It's also too easy to trigger with jump infantry.

Born in the Saddle probably won't apply to infantry on foot.

 

A lot of White Scars players try to use jetbikes as close combat units. The Sky Hunter rules aren't well suited for that, so I fully expect an assault-oriented jetbike unit. I'm also hoping for Mk II riders and a 30k-ified Attack Bike model. Though bikes and a special weapon that likes to be used with two hands is a paradoxical combination…

 

One fluff 'contradiction' I've always wondered about is that they seem low-tech in terms of weaponry (limited arsenal mentioned in Brotherhood of the Storm), but they also use old equipment longer. Does that mean they'd have more of the volkite weaponry that the Astartes started with but largely phased out?

[Kasper_Hawser]

Not sure if this is realistic thinking, but I noticed donkeys and mules are smaller yet seem to carry much bigger loads than horses (don't know the exact numbers). Also in the northern steppes of central asia and mongolia, the horses tend to be short and stocky, yet seem tougher.

 

Khan may still have been merely big human size to still go by horses. Either that or Chogorian horses are bigger. I think Lion also used huge horses with the knights of the Order back on Caliban. 

 

And if Fenris has wolves the size of ponies, REALLY big horses shouldn't be a stretch. Although to me, big isn't the factor, as long as its tough/stocky enough to bear burden and still be fast. Mongolian horses as I understand, were short and stocky yet strong and fast enough to carry a leather clad warrior with a bow and run circles around fully armoured knights and cataphractii of Europe and Middle East.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Kasper_Hawser

[Lord_Caerolion]

I mean, these aren't Earth horses. They're Chogorian "horses", that have had 28,000 years to be selectively bred and diverge from what we understand now, assuming they even share a common ancestor, and aren't just similar looking Xenos.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I mean, these aren't Earth horses. They're Chogorian "horses", that have had 28,000 years to be selectively bred and diverge from what we understand now, assuming they even share a common ancestor, and aren't just similar looking Xenos.

 

 

LOL, you bring up a great point. Where the Chogorian horses actually "horses" in the first place? Heck, do terrans apart from the Emperor and similar aged perpetuals, even know what horses are in the old Earth sense? For all we know, the Chogorian horses are grass eating dinosaurs who happen to be rideable.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I mean, I'd love for Forge World to release a unit of Chogorian Outriders, or something like that, which are Scouts on the "horses", and to do with them what they did for the Death Riders of Krieg. Have them riding creatures somewhat recognisable as horses, but still utterly different, maybe making them like a hybrid horse/yak, or something. After all, this is the series where a Mechanicus Magos made a cyber-monkey with a scorpion tail (because as the skeletal remains show, it was obviously used as a weapon, not this idiotic idea of being a prehensile limb), or that onagers/mules were insectile. 

 

Something that could be brought to the fore a bit more often, I think, is that 40k isn't just modern people in space with a different government. Gothic isn't English, High Gothic isn't pseudo-Latin, they're both hodge-podge mixtures of English/Chinese/Russian, left to develop and expand and change over 28,000 years. English is barely understandable to lay-people compared to what it was a few hundred years ago, just look at how quickly the Internet/technology is changing the way we speak now. The idea that horses look the exact same on every planet, after being colonised somewhere between the years 15,000-20,000, then left to their own devices for 10,000 or so years until they're rediscovered by the Imperium? Hell no, they're going to look at the very least like different sub-species, more likely as different as donkeys/horses/zebras currently are, or even as different as comparing horses and the mukaali of Tallarn.

 

I mean, imagine how cool it could be if the Chogorian "horse" didn't evolve from "Equus" genestock, but rather from the bison/yaks that were brought by the initial settlers, and steadily bred until they had a "riding yak" that was analogous to our horses. Make it look like these are creatures resulting in 28,000 years worth of genetic drift from now, not horses that came from a time machine.

[Laughingman]

At least on Caliban I'm fairly sure they were indeed "horses" (or some genetically modified variant or analogous creature). Corswain describes "breaking a horse" as part of his knightly training in the Order, in Savage Weapons...

[Fire Golem]

 

I mean, these aren't Earth horses. They're Chogorian "horses", that have had 28,000 years to be selectively bred and diverge from what we understand now, assuming they even share a common ancestor, and aren't just similar looking Xenos.

 

 

LOL, you bring up a great point. Where the Chogorian horses actually "horses" in the first place? Heck, do terrans apart from the Emperor and similar aged perpetuals, even know what horses are in the old Earth sense? For all we know, the Chogorian horses are grass eating dinosaurs who happen to be rideable.

It’s like that bit in Master of Mankind, where it says about the monkey that rides around on Arkhan Lands shoulder, and it says something like ‘one scholar had theorised that monkeys could hang from trees by their tail, but it was patently obvious that their tails were used to inject venom’. Edited February 9, 2018 by fire golem

[Lord_Caerolion]

That doesn't necessarily mean they're identical creatures to what we have now, just that they're called horses.

[bluntblade]

It's worth noting that there are breeds of horse - especially destriers - from the Middle Ages whose size we're not certain of, and that's over a gap of five centuries.

 

I mean, these aren't Earth horses. They're Chogorian "horses", that have had 28,000 years to be selectively bred and diverge from what we understand now, assuming they even share a common ancestor, and aren't just similar looking Xenos.

 

 

 

LOL, you bring up a great point. Where the Chogorian horses actually "horses" in the first place? Heck, do terrans apart from the Emperor and similar aged perpetuals, even know what horses are in the old Earth sense? For all we know, the Chogorian horses are grass eating dinosaurs who happen to be rideable.

Mongols riding triceratops? Someone start a home brew Scars successor now!