We Need More Activity: Codex Discussion and More

[Jarl Caldersson]

How about mixed weapon Primaris like grey hunters.

 

Judging by how much the Primaris are controlled and that the lack many roles they are kinda stuck being codex compliant. I mean they don't even know how the SW's operate since they don't have contact with then in the books.

[Splog]

I think SWs are going to get something different/more to regular marines, to explain why the codex is so late coming out. Of course there could be other reasons, like more effort to integrate Primaris Marines into the background material for SW.

 

I’m taking as a given that all the existing Primaris stuff that can already be used by SW will be in there.

 

I think most likely are:

- Leman Russ

- A Primaris model or upgrade to the chaplain to give SW a Primaris character that can heal

- Primaris SW character upgrade sprue (as per lieutenants)

 

Then after that...

- a Primaris techpriest character, available to all marines but maybe with a SW upgrade pack

- adding some existing space marine vehicles to the SW codex

 

Then..

- redemptor variants

- matched play rules for the helfrost landraider variant in chapter approved

 

Less likely:

- Primaris close combat unit armed with things to hit people with. These would make a better fit with the SW age-based-role. They become the Primaris bloodclaws. Hellblasters are long fangs. Boltgun armed Primaris are grey hunters (reivers too / are the new wolf scouts). The Gravis armoured marines don’t fit in well but could be shoehorned in still (aggressors blood claws, heavy bolter chaps grey hunters, or make them wolfguard).

 

Even less likely:

- 30k era stuff eg deathsworn coming out (see spoilers re Thorpe’s latest SW book); could explain why we’ve not seen them released yet. Maybe they’ll have some sort of intermediate scale

- brand new possibly unique SW Primaris unit

 

Least:

- Primaris Wulfen

- SW specific vehicle

[Gherrick]

I would love a SW-specific primaris upgrade sprue. I also agree the lack of mixed weapons makes primaris even less SW.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Since my first love has always been the humble and flexible Grey Hunters, I hope eventually the Primaris marines in the Space Wolves also give the finger to Guilliman and start acting like Grey Hunters.

 

Two wound Grey Hunters with the same flexibility in equipment and free chainswords? Count me in. With the Cunning of the Wolf Strategem, transport limitations becomes less restrictive.

 

Speaking of which, anybody got good conversions of Space Wolves intercessors? I would like some inspiration on "Fenryka-nizing" the primaris. apart from shoulder pads and space wolf bare heads of course, which is easy pz.

[Mantinel]

What I would love to see for Space Wolves, is army wide rule based on a great company you choose (something similar to Hive Fleets of Tyranids). This would allow creating great thematic armies with appropriate bonuses - a company focused on rapid deployment, use of mechanized infantry, bikes or thunderwolves would be very flavored.

 

As for specific units here are my humble suggestions:

 

Grey Hunters

Our bread and butter choice for all purposes. Now they struggle to perform besides their primaris counterpart. Versatility is key here, but they need some points reduction to make them comparable. I would like to see the banner to give some meaningful one-time use – reroll to charge, more attacks, better shooting, etc.

 

Blood Claws

They are great flavor unit, but eventually they struggle compared to their more senior brethren. I would suggest a rule that would allow them to fight twice in fight phase once per game as a recognition of their youthful energy. Serious drop of points is in order here.

 

Wolf Scouts

My favorite unit in the whole army needs a big boost to make them great again. Firstly, they need to have option to deploy in similar way as regular scouts, but they would also have option to deploy behind enemy lines. Secondly, to give them back the respect they deserve, they could pop out within 6” of border edge and within 6” of enemy units, breaking the regular 9” deployment. This would make everyone fear our scouts as in their golden 5^th edition days.

 

Lone Wolf

These guys lost their special status with the new character rules of 8^th edition and with the huge point increase are just not worth it. I would suggest that Lone Wolves would be a discount unit that can be picked in a similar way as dedicated transport. For example, for each 3 space wolves infantry units, you may pick a lone wolf for 20 points (without wargear). They could also be accompanied by fenrisian wolves retinue, creating a cool character hunting with his pack.

 

Wolf Guard

The swiss army knife of space wolves. The problem with Wolf Guard is that they regularly just outperform our other choices. I love their versatility but on the other hand I hate that they can be outfitted to be just better – albeit more costly – version of our other choices. I would suggest these to be 0-1 choice for the whole army.

 

Wulfen

The rules on Wulfen are great, my only suggestion would be to make their buff aura a bit easier to play with.

 

Skyclaws & Swiftclaws

As these are basically Blood Claws with jump packs / bikes, same suggestion would apply to them. The problem with both units is the lackluster BS 4+ as the special weapons are gimped on them. This problem is most prevalent on Swiftclaws attack bikes where the heavy weapon shoots on 5+ while moving which is awful. The solution here would be to introduce a special rule to attack bike that sice the weapon has its own shooter, the BS is not reduced when moving.  

 

Thunderwolves Cavalry

These guys took a severe beating with the nerfhammer and need to be restored to their former glory. The current index redesign is quite ok, but they need to go seriously down in points. Also I would love some hit-run special rule and better movement / charge options, since they are quite slow now.

 

Fenrisian Wolves

Inexpensive wrap around units are mandatory in this edition. The only problem I have is leadership issues with the unit and they could use a small bump in this regard.

 

Murderfang

This guy is a rage fueled death machine, but he needs some survivability. As he is sort of a berserker, ignoring wounds of 5+ should be okay.

 

Venerable Dreadnought with axe&shield

Everyone loves these guys, but too keep up with the character dreads, they could move 8” instead of 6”.

 

Stormwolf / Stormfang Gunship

The main problem with our flyers is that they have two twin multi-meltas which are just too expensive. Putting a unit inside makes this transport a great example of too many eggs in one basket. My suggestion would be to lower the cost of twin multi-meltas for all units (how many are even there).

 

Long Fangs

Current index version is quite good, no changes are required in my opinion.

 

Other suggestions:

Frost weapons - as there are typically no damage 2 melee weapons, I would suggest that our frost weaponry should do 2 damage, instead of providing additional strength.

Saga of the Warrior Born – it’s quite niche as it only applies in few scenarios. If you charge – no effect, if you get charged, the player will just pick the charging unit first to act. In prolonged combat, the opponent may just opt to leave the combat before you have a chance to swing. I would suggest that Warlord with this trait would fight first all the time, regardless if he gets charged or not.

Relics – I would love to see a relic for most of the space wolves weaponry, including wolf claws, frost axe and sword, thunder hammer and storm shield. Also some dreadnought weapons would be interesting.

 

[DanPesci]

Probably a bit late to the party but heres some answers

 

1. Although combat shields as an option would be interesting, im not sure id ever really take them over the boltgun. For me as long as grey hunters as priced well, and come with BG/BP/CS stock, they already fill the troop role quite nicely (although maybe need extra options..see point 2)

 

2. Am not to fussed about grav this edition, but itd be nice to have the option  if everyone else does.  I've never really liked the 'they live on a planet of ice..so they have ICEGUNS shtick of helfrost. Also tehyd need to change the rules on it to make it worth taking over plasma/melta.

 

3. Currently wolves wise im working on a much darker themed mkIII post-heresy company (compared to my old baby blues). However im not really doing too much with them until i see what the codex brings. Mostly they have taken a backseat as i finish off my admech.

 

 

5. Some 13th company support would be nice as long as they dont go full twilight. Please please please no wulfen-russ!

 

Scouts with rules that actually reflect them being elites.

 

Being able to take a 'heroes of the fang' style list full of terminators and dreadnoughts and have some strategems which help this.

 

Primaris support would be all good but im not going to buying any in a hurry so im not really bothere (but can see how others want it)...will be interesting to see how they handle the fluff of non-fenrisian SW. Am thinking for SW they may simply keep the primaris seperate in their own wolfspear company...but then they'll want to sell new kits so maybe not.

 

ALL claw variants to have BS3/WS3. Sm scouts have it. The idea that our newbies dont is ridiculous. Fine give them a 'headstrong' rule that has some downside...but they are still space marines!

[Jarl Caldersson]

The whole Helfrost thing, imo, comes from Russ's armor would expel I've cold air instead of hot air. Was also said that anyone that didn't have Fenrisian or Russ's seed would be turned to ice. Sounds like some technology that either the Emperor gave Russ or 30k SWs developed.

 

Also the BC thing is that the BC don't take the time to aim and think and just simply charge into combat.

 

Primaris BC/GH/WG would be awesome.

[Triszin]

I want Rune priests and WOlf priests to gain TWC as a mount option.

 

- WOuldn't mind Rune priests getting a spell to buff fenrisian wolves.

 

-Warp Wolves, fenrisian wolves within 6" use the rune priests leadership, additionally they gain +1 W and +1 T, and gain rending.

[Rockythedog]

I could see them trying to integrate the primaris by either;

 

A) they cut their teeth in the wolfspear before proving themselves worthy to join the actual chapter as primaris grey hunters, or

 

B) after some internal conflict about whether to accept them, and the Primaris have in some fashion saved some traditional SW, they will be cautiously welcomed in as true seed brothers. Just like the wulfen in legacy of the wulfen

 

I am still working on my first company of SW. have a small primaris contingent made up and painted, and have built my version of Erik Morkai (I’ll be putting pics up soon for comments). Working on my skyclaws and wolf guard next. Then scouts. After that......maybe some painting lessons?

[MaveriK]

1:

 

I’m not sure how I feel about it to be honest. I mean our Wolf Guard can already do it along with Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cavalry, although it can get expensive doing it. But if our Grey Hunters could, I hope it would be a cheap option. I’d want that option to be practical and tactical. Not to mention if there is a special rule given for a shield wall bubble although their would have to be stationary or walk as if armed with heavy weapons.

 

2:

 

My opinion on Helfrost is that it’s nothing but a gimmick. A toy that gives wolves with the intent to make us stand out, or “special” but fails and in my own opinion, only because it stereotypes a false narrative. Fenris is a world of both ice and fire. But not always ice... which is disappointing because I think the fluff/intentions behind the concept of Helfrost fails to deliver us here. Rule wise, it needs tweaking.

 

3:

 

I’m working on custom assassins. Mainly a culexus and a eversor to add to my army. Long term, waiting for bits to arrive and certain releases to come in plastic. I’ve got my eye on some of the new daughters of khaine bits. My lost company has shield maidens riding thunderwoves because I dislike the idea of power armoured superhumans riding giant wolves. Plus it’s a Norse thing. Anyway, I need more daughters of fenris troops!

 

4:

 

We’ve had threads about codex release wants and wish listing. Either update, merge them or start anew. Technically almost everything we post is a wish list related topic here.

 

5:

 

I want the wolves to return to their old ways of 30K game play and ideology, similar to what Inferno gave the legion.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

1. I don't really think I care if GHs end up getting combat shields or not. Out of all the units I am concerned with having a Combat Shield or Storm Shield GHs are not one of them. It would look very cool though. 

 

2. If Space Wolves got the man portable helfrost or access to grav I would probably still use Plasma. 

 

3. Right now I am working on 30k World Eaters, 40k World Eaters, 40k Death Guard, and 40k Word Bearers. In the long term I would love to have a full 30k Space Wolves army as I like the legion theme so much more than the 40k SWs I started with. 

 

4. I hate wishlists so much... that said, I really hope a new Ragnar Blackmane model is released. Other than new Zerker models Ragnar is the only other model that's a big eye sore for me. I'm not down with the whole Primaris thing but I would like to see SWs Primaris have ultragrit like Grey Hunters. They would change my mind on Primaris marines.  And what the hell... since we are wishlisting, I would like to see some sort of Drop Pod stratagem for Blackmanes that would allow more units to be placed in reserve than the half of the army rule. 

 

5. I'd like access to some of the flyers we do not have access to now. 

 

 

 

The index has been more or less figured out. There really isn't much to discuss.

 

1) A basic marine body is not worth this investment. Getting shot at with a plasma gun still gives you a 6+ save so having a 5++ isn't great.

 

Ummm... what? Khorne Bezerkers are all the evidence that a basic marine body is absolutely worth the investment. 

 

_______________________________________________________________

I don't know how you guys feel about this, but I feel like GW is having a terrible time figuring out what to do with the Space Wolves right now. It's like they can't make up their minds on how to keep us unique and keep going back and forth for what kind of play style Space Wolves should have on the table top. I wouldn't mind it if the Space Wolves wound up like the World Eaters as far as brutal savagery in close combat. I don't necessarily think we need to fight twice per assault phase but something that allowed Grey Hunters to advance, shoot, and charge would be nice. I'd also like to see the rule from the 5th edition codex to return where Space Wolves were treated as charging even if we were charged. So maybe a +1 to attack if a unit of Space Wolves charges or is charged. Hopefully GW will get it figured out because this weird place SWs seem to be in has me incredibly unmotivated to bring them out and put them on the table top. Which really sucks because SWs were my first army and I do really miss playing them. 

[Karack Blackstone]

BloodyLegionnaire, I agree.

 

The long term issue is that the Wolves are Vikings culturally, and part Wolf thanks to their Geneseed, via Russ.

 

Vikings with both Human thought and the added benefit of Wolf cunning, instincts, etc., et. al., leads to a very important point, to me.

 

GW does not truly know how to present the Wolves, to itself and to its fans, in a way that makes us the Chapter we once were, without the lore they have that changed the VIth Legion in the way that they were reformed by Russ, in I think the story is, "The Wolf King."

 

To add something of hopefully poignant value, in 30K the Wolves feel like Vikings, in 40K we get more Wolf force-fed down our throats than any of us want, ever, or at least, to me it is that way. The issue is, for GW, they seem to think that forgetting the past does not doom one to repeat it; as in, the Wolves don't need to be Vikings anymore. The problem is, the Wolves are both Vikings and Wolves; each individual decides for just oneself where and how they measure their internal place within that dichotomy.

[Triszin]

I actually think RUss is coming with the dex, and we'll probably see a complete restructurization of the wolves

[The Saint Ragnar]

I think something I would like to start talking about is what are we going to get in our codex as far as a chapter trait? Are we going to get a single chapter trait for the entire army our will we see it broken down into Great Companies with their specific tactics? What do we prefer really?

 

Personally I would like the break down into Great Company tactics to add that nice bit of flavor and fluff to the armies. Looking at what they have done with the other Codex releases I think it would be pretty cool to see what they will do with us. Technically we are large enough of a Chapter (remember each Great Company is pretty much a regular Space Marine chapter) to warrant specific traits.

 

However, do we just want one really good one that applies to the entire army something like Blood Angles got (+1 to wound is pretty awesome especially for our beat sticks like the Wulfen).

 

On the subject of Russ I would love to see him come out with the Codex. I also hope he is an old grizzled veteran when he comes out who looks at the Chapter as a bunch of rowdy pups who need to be trained and restore some of that old viking feel to them.

 

However, all of this is a double edged sword as currently I feel we have been the strongest Index army and still remain somewhat competitive without having our Codex yet. We might see a lot of hate because the Russ/Codex combo will make us "broken" which most likely means we will see a hard nerf hammer when the FAQ and Chapter Approved comes around like a lot of armies did.

 

Thoughts?

[Karack Blackstone]

The Saint Ragner, great thoughts, and a fine new direction for the thread.

 

So long as those that continue keep in mind there likely will be new posts referencing the OP rather than the new discussion direction at times, then as above, by all means, go for it. I personally think the best balance is to have a two part Chapter Tactic, or, in its place, a unifying rule and then a single Company replacing Chapter Trait.

 

The Wolves are a lively bunch, and individuality is the name of the Chapter's game. To that end, if there is a Chapter and Company Trait system, then, I wonder what unifies the Wolves, and then what each second one, the Company Traits, would look like. If instead, there is a single rule that unifies all the Wolves Companies, and then in place of a Chapter Trait we players instead get a Company Trait, then that could prove interesting as well.

 

As an example, consider we get:

 

1 - Chapter Trait

2 - Guard Regimental Doctrines like system of Great Company specific options

 

I would be ecstatic, so long as it is fun, balanced, and fluffy.

 

As to Russ, I expect him to return, and likely with our Codex. I pray he is not a giant Wolf-man Wulfen the size of the Daemon Primarchs released thus far in 40K. I would prefer he remain one that has not given into the Wulfen gene; it would be so sad to me that such a great warrior lost such a truly vital battle inside himself.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

The Saint Ragner, great thoughts, and a fine new direction for the thread.

 

So long as those that continue keep in mind there likely will be new posts referencing the OP rather than the new discussion direction at times, then as above, by all means, go for it. I personally think the best balance is to have a two part Chapter Tactic, or, in its place, a unifying rule and then a single Company replacing Chapter Trait.

 

The Wolves are a lively bunch, and individuality is the name of the Chapter's game. To that end, if there is a Chapter and Company Trait system, then, I wonder what unifies the Wolves, and then what each second one, the Company Traits, would look like. If instead, there is a single rule that unifies all the Wolves Companies, and then in place of a Chapter Trait we players instead get a Company Trait, then that could prove interesting as well.

 

As an example, consider we get:

 

1 - Chapter Trait

2 - Guard Regimental Doctrines like system of Great Company specific options

 

I would be ecstatic, so long as it is fun, balanced, and fluffy.

 

As to Russ, I expect him to return, and likely with our Codex. I pray he is not a giant Wolf-man Wulfen the size of the Daemon Primarchs released thus far in 40K. I would prefer he remain one that has not given into the Wulfen gene; it would be so sad to me that such a great warrior lost such a truly vital battle inside himself.

 

I think he'd have to be a Daemon to wind up being that large. I'm sure he'll be Girlyman sized.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Have we ever been told Russ has the Canis Helix. Pre-Cup of Wulfen the SW's never had the Wulfen issue. Depending on how you look at it Wulfen are those that are impure and corrupt or those that could not handle themselves and lost the inner battle. I see Russ not having any of these issues.

 

If he did, what does that tell the SW's? That they are doomed to fall to the Wulfen. If their own primarchs could not resist it, then they have no chance.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

At the start of the edition I was hoping for "Great Company Tactics". Now I don't think I want them. It becomes too unwieldy. I just want a good SW Chapter Tactic. Which I think is something we will get.

[Karhedron]

Both BA and DAs have a single Chapter Tactic so I suspect SWs will as well. The Wolfy/Viking split is no more pronounced that Deathwing/Ravenwing or Sanguinary Guard/Death Company. The detachments are already flexible enough that if you want to build Ironwolves, you can take plenty of tanks and IPs whereas if you want to do Blackmanes, you can take plenty of Claws and drop pods.

 

I am pretty sure I remember one of the Devs stating recently that if Russ came back, he would definitely not be a giant werewolf. I am still hopeful we will start to get hints of Russ and a new SW codex once the current batch of Xenos codices (Tau, DE and Necrons) are finished.

[The Saint Ragnar]

I am pretty sure I remember one of the Devs stating recently that if Russ came back, he would definitely not be a giant werewolf. I am still hopeful we will start to get hints of Russ and a new SW codex once the current batch of Xenos codices (Tau, DE and Necrons) are finished.

 

I do remember seeing that somewhere as well and mentioned that it was stated in a way that made the poster think they were already designing him at the time.

 

As an aside, on the topic of the Xenos codices have we seen a release schedule come out for them yet? I feel like one has not gone up and I want to plan on when I should start scanning the internet for signs of Russ hints/leaks.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Initially I was thinking GW may announce something at Adepticon for the next releases. But I don't know if the timeline will work for that because Tau is slated for a March 10 preorder or release. That wouldn't give enough time to release the other two in time to announce the next group of codexes on March 22.

 

Latest rumors I heard were that we would be in the group of releases after these three Xenos dexes. If they wrap up this group by April maybe we can see something by May or June depending on AoS releases. I heard they are introducing a new race to AoS so that may take up most of April.

[Karack Blackstone]

I have no supporting information, however, given that there were rumors some time back of Wolves in either February or May/June, the May/June window seems far more likely.

 

As far as what we get, if we do not get access to Russ, as players, at the very least, there is the thought that he will be hinted at, just like in the Dark Angels book there is a hint in the back of the book, on the very last page of their Codex.

 

I still hope for Grav, and, above all, Helfrost; that typed, all of the Special Ranged Weapons that are not Plasma need help. While our Codex will not address all entries for these weapons, the issue is, the next Chapter Approved just might.

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

I am pretty sure I remember one of the Devs stating recently that if Russ came back, he would definitely not be a giant werewolf. I am still hopeful we will start to get hints of Russ and a new SW codex once the current batch of Xenos codices (Tau, DE and Necrons) are finished.

 

 

I do remember seeing that somewhere as well and mentioned that it was stated in a way that made the poster think they were already designing him at the time.

 

As an aside, on the topic of the Xenos codices have we seen a release schedule come out for them yet? I feel like one has not gone up and I want to plan on when I should start scanning the internet for signs of Russ hints/leaks.

Believe Chapter Master Valrak had a conversation saying. "So if we see Russ, is he going to be coming back as a big huge Wulfen?" Which the dev quickly responds to as "Oh no, he will come back as a normal Primarch". Valrak states the dev didn't think about it and said it casually enough like he already knew the design.

[Wolf Lord Beowulf]

1: I feel like shields should be added more for aesthetic purpose than rules. I added small round shields from WHFB to my blood claws simply for Viking flair By all means, add an option to take them, however for GH. 

 

2: No experience with Grav myself. I haven't played 30k, and I ducked out of the game during 6th and 7th ed. Plasma is always good, though. 

 

3: Been updating my old paint jobs on the wolves (there is a stark difference between stuff I painted 2 weeks ago and 10 years ago), but very hesitant to add much to them until the new dex. I have a feeling the new Primaris Wolf chapters will be needed to replace the great companies after the scouring of the Fenris system. I'll miss Sven, as I was hoping to go for a "skywolves" theme soon. 

 

4: Better sooner than later. 

 

5: Better options for Anti-Air/Anti-Vehicle. I need some way to slow down my Uncle's Dark Eldar. lol

[The Saint Ragnar]

I wanted to address the OP as we move through March. In light of the recent leaks about Necrons being out by the end of the month it makes that originally leaked release schedule for 2018 seem more likely. So we could very well be seeing our Codex out by May so do we want to start the wish-list thread now or at the end of the month? See the schedule I am talking about below and keep in mind I did not type it so all the grammatical errors can be attributed to poster.